Jilted Generation

Alain Quay

Anyone read this?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jilted-Generati ... 1848311982

Certainly the sentiment seems right. Young people need to argue much more loudly for
a fair deal.

john-e-big-guns

I've been arguing all my working life[some 47yrs] some ya win... some ya lose...and some ya just have to put them on their ar**s

cooldad

Get a haircut and pull your trousers up. Bloody yoof.

rick_chasey

Alain Quay wrote:

Anyone read this?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jilted-Generati ... 1848311982

Certainly the sentiment seems right. Young people need to argue much more loudly for
a fair deal.

They do, but they get ignored by people who are older and don't care, or shouted down with comments like "lazy student" "I worked 26hrs a day in a sweatshop when I was 12 back in the day, pull your finger out" "youth have it easy these days" etc.

The UK's well known for holding youth in comtempt!

cooldad

As a matter of interest - what's a fair deal? What specifically is wrong with the deal they have at the moment? What exactly are they shouting about that gets ignored?

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

The UK's well known for holding youth in comtempt!

Shut up and come back when you're older!

guinea

It's intergenerational theft.

The boomer generation have shafted anyone under 40.

When they were kids a man with a good job could pay for his wife to stay at home and raise kids. They then went to good schools, free university and got great pensions knowing full well we'd have to pay for it.

That entire generation should be banned from retiring or getting any more state help until they've paid back what they've stolen.

finchy

cooldad wrote:

As a matter of interest - what's a fair deal? What specifically is wrong with the deal they have at the moment? What exactly are they shouting about that gets ignored?

Being constantly portrayed as illiterate yobs? (OK, the illiterate yobs have nothing to complain about here, but there are still plenty of decent youngsters)

£30k for university, £120k for a flat the size of a shoebox in a sh1t area if you're lucky?

The fact that young people are going to spend a very large part of their working lives paying off the gigantic debts worked up over the last couple of decades?

The growing realisation that we're storing up some massive problems in the future by messing up the environment upon which we depend for food, water and air? Resource depletion?

I know that everything was worse in the 1940s, etc. etc., but isn't the idea of progress to make things better for every coming generation? It seems like we had a chance to build a really great future and we just threw it away.

cooldad

johnfinch wrote:

cooldad wrote:

As a matter of interest - what's a fair deal? What specifically is wrong with the deal they have at the moment? What exactly are they shouting about that gets ignored?

Being constantly portrayed as illiterate yobs? (OK, the illiterate yobs have nothing to complain about here, but there are still plenty of decent youngsters)

£30k for university, £120k for a flat the size of a shoebox in a sh1t area if you're lucky?

The fact that young people are going to spend a very large part of their working lives paying off the gigantic debts worked up over the last couple of decades?

The growing realisation that we're storing up some massive problems in the future by messing up the environment upon which we depend for food, water and air? Resource depletion?

I know that everything was worse in the 1940s, etc. etc., but isn't the idea of progress to make things better for every coming generation? It seems like we had a chance to build a really great future and we just threw it away.

Screw coming generations They can work it out for themselves.
Everyone talks about the'we', 'them' etc.
Doesn't work like that.
And I think you'll find the hippies in the sixties were saying much the same thing.

finchy

cooldad wrote:

Screw coming generations. They can work it out for themselves.

Everything that's wrong with this country in two sentences.

You know something, not everybody's just in it for themselves. I've done quite a bit of voluntary work, and I've met so many nice, decent people who were prepared to make self-sacrifices, whether in terms of time or money, just to help people they've never even met. The history of humanity is littered with examples of people who were willing to make sacrifices - even their lives - to make a better world.

And then somebody comes along and says screw x, y or z. :roll:

rick_chasey

John's right.

On the continent youth is considered an advantage, and something that should be treasured.

In the UK it's considered a disadvantage, yet it's also envied...

Even the odd argument I've had on here has boiled down to "you're young so what you say/do, counts for less"

louthepoo

johnfinch wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Screw coming generations. They can work it out for themselves.

Everything that's wrong with this country in two sentences.

What an incredibly simplistic view. If you really believe that, you need to educate yourself

finchy

louthepoo wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Screw coming generations. They can work it out for themselves.

Everything that's wrong with this country in two sentences.

What an incredibly simplistic view. If you really believe that, you need to educate yourself

:roll:

I don't literally believe that these two sentences contain the key to all of our nation's problems. I was using exaggeration to make a point. It's a rhetorical device.

shm_uk

Alain Quay wrote:

Anyone read this?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jilted-Generati ... 1848311982

Certainly the sentiment seems right. Young people need to argue much more loudly for
a fair deal.

Hmmmm.

'argue' for a 'fair deal' ?

Or do you really mean 'stamp their feet until they get whatever they want'

rick_chasey

shm_uk wrote:

Alain Quay wrote:

Anyone read this?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jilted-Generati ... 1848311982

Certainly the sentiment seems right. Young people need to argue much more loudly for
a fair deal.

Hmmmm.

'argue' for a 'fair deal' ?

Or do you really mean 'stamp their feet until they get whatever they want'

I thought that's what all the baby boomers were doing sitting in front of their banker, asking for a £million mortgage when they earn £25,000.

cooldad

johnfinch wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Screw coming generations. They can work it out for themselves.

Everything that's wrong with this country in two sentences.

You know something, not everybody's just in it for themselves. I've done quite a bit of voluntary work, and I've met so many nice, decent people who were prepared to make self-sacrifices, whether in terms of time or money, just to help people they've never even met. The history of humanity is littered with examples of people who were willing to make sacrifices - even their lives - to make a better world.

And then somebody comes along and says screw x, y or z. :roll:

I make plenty of sacrifices, including voluntary work and paying vast amounts of tax.
But one 'generation' cannot look after another, except for feeding, clothing and educating them.
Groupthink doesn't work. You live your own life to the best of your ability, then provide the compost for later generations.
Deal with it, no one else is going to do it for you.

cooldad

Rick Chasey wrote:

shm_uk wrote:

Alain Quay wrote:

Anyone read this?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jilted-Generati ... 1848311982

Certainly the sentiment seems right. Young people need to argue much more loudly for
a fair deal.

Hmmmm.

'argue' for a 'fair deal' ?

Or do you really mean 'stamp their feet until they get whatever they want'

I thought that's what all the baby boomers were doing sitting in front of their banker, asking for a £million mortgage when they earn £25,000.

Generalise much?

rick_chasey

cooldad wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Screw coming generations. They can work it out for themselves.

Everything that's wrong with this country in two sentences.

You know something, not everybody's just in it for themselves. I've done quite a bit of voluntary work, and I've met so many nice, decent people who were prepared to make self-sacrifices, whether in terms of time or money, just to help people they've never even met. The history of humanity is littered with examples of people who were willing to make sacrifices - even their lives - to make a better world.

And then somebody comes along and says screw x, y or z. :roll:

I make plenty of sacrifices, including voluntary work and paying vast amounts of tax.
But one 'generation' cannot look after another, except for feeding, clothing and educating them.
Groupthink doesn't work. You live your own life to the best of your ability, then provide the compost for later generations.
Deal with it, no one else is going to do it for you.

There is no compost. That's the point (duh). The gripe is that the previous generation has lived at the expense of the future one. The complaint is that they have lived selfishly enough to the extent that they will not have to suffer the consequences - that burden is left on another generation - a generation that had no control over that burden. If you follow the argument, and it's reasonably solid, then you can see that it is a legitimate gripe.

cooldad

Rick Chasey wrote:

John's right.

On the continent youth is considered an advantage, and something that should be treasured.

In the UK it's considered a disadvantage, yet it's also envied...

Even the odd argument I've had on here has boiled down to "you're young so what you say/do, counts for less"

Rubbish, if you have something worthwhile to say, people will listen. I see no ages on the forum.
And I think it's only a small subset of the RCC that treasures youth.

cooldad

Rick Chasey wrote:

cooldad wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Screw coming generations. They can work it out for themselves.

Everything that's wrong with this country in two sentences.

You know something, not everybody's just in it for themselves. I've done quite a bit of voluntary work, and I've met so many nice, decent people who were prepared to make self-sacrifices, whether in terms of time or money, just to help people they've never even met. The history of humanity is littered with examples of people who were willing to make sacrifices - even their lives - to make a better world.

And then somebody comes along and says screw x, y or z. :roll:

I make plenty of sacrifices, including voluntary work and paying vast amounts of tax.
But one 'generation' cannot look after another, except for feeding, clothing and educating them.
Groupthink doesn't work. You live your own life to the best of your ability, then provide the compost for later generations.
Deal with it, no one else is going to do it for you.

There is no compost. That's the point (duh). The gripe is that the previous generation has lived at the expense of the future one. The complaint is that they have lived selfishly enough to the extent that they will not have to suffer the consequences - that burden is left on another generation - a generation that had no control over that burden. If you follow the argument, and it's reasonably solid, then you can see that it is a legitimate gripe.

Wrong again, most people have worked, lived a bit, drank beer and watched MOTD.
Selfish does not come into it. Politicians have bought votes, as is their wont, and the true cost is coming out, that's the system.
Don't like it, change it.
Like I said earlier, welcome to hippiedom dude.

finchy

cooldad wrote:

I make plenty of sacrifices, including voluntary work and paying vast amounts of tax.

OK, sorry, you came across as being pretty selfish by saying "screw the coming generations". I thought you were one of those who just looks after number 1.

cooldad wrote:

But one 'generation' cannot look after another, except for feeding, clothing and educating them.
Groupthink doesn't work. You live your own life to the best of your ability, then provide the compost for later generations.

I'll +1 to what Rick said 2 posts up.

cooldad wrote:

Deal with it, no one else is going to do it for you.

I'm quite confident about my future thanks. And I've lead a great life so far.

rick_chasey

cooldad wrote:

Wrong again, most people have worked, lived a bit, drank beer and watched MOTD.

...and got a big fat mortage:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... tdown.html

Certainly wasn't my generation.

If you knew where I worked, you certainly wouldn't be calling me a hippie!

cooldad

Rick Chasey wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Wrong again, most people have worked, lived a bit, drank beer and watched MOTD.

...and got a big fat mortage:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... tdown.html

Certainly wasn't my generation.

If you knew where I worked, you certainly wouldn't be calling me a hippie!

Sound like a hippie to me - it's a state of mind. Many people go through it before being kicked in the knackers by the world, getting cynical and saying screw the next generation.
Sorry if I am trolling a bit, but us oldies have a long history of dissing the youth, probably because we are jealous and going to be compost soon.

"The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants of the households. They no longer rise when their elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize over their teachers." I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint.~attributed to Hesiod (8th century B.C.)

finchy

cooldad wrote:

Sound like a hippie to me - it's a state of mind. Many people go through it before being kicked in the knackers by the world, getting cynical and saying screw the next generation.
Sorry if I am trolling a bit, but us oldies have a long history of dissing the youth, probably because we are jealous and going to be compost soon.

Fight it!

You don't have to give in!

OK, now all the arguing is over, given the age to which humans live these days, why would anybody not want a better future for the next generation? We'll be sharing the world with them for most of our lives!

Take me for example (cos I'm a narcissist) - I'm 30, my girlfriend and I are planning on babies in the next couple of years. We both have longevity on both sides of our families, so unless we're wiped out in a car accident, nuclear war or zombie attack, we can probably count on being alive until we're 90 minimum. Which means that for 58 years of our children's lives, we'll be alive. So it won't only be out of concern for our children that we'll want a steadily better world, it's also in our own selfish interests.

Weejie54

The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter ...
...attributed to Hesiod (8th century B.C.)

Probably more arguments over who to attribute that quote to than there are in this thread!

Most attribute it to Socrates, but it is as dubious as Hesiod.

spen666

This is the real Jilted Generation The Jilted One

cooldad

Weejie54 wrote:

The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter ...
...attributed to Hesiod (8th century B.C.)

Probably more arguments over who to attribute that quote to than there are in this thread!

Most attribute it to Socrates, but it is as dubious as Hesiod.

Yup. Just feeling a bit argumentative today.
Doesn't everyone quote dubious internet knowledge?

louthepoo

johnfinch wrote:

louthepoo wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Screw coming generations. They can work it out for themselves.

Everything that's wrong with this country in two sentences.

What an incredibly simplistic view. If you really believe that, you need to educate yourself

:roll:

I don't literally believe that these two sentences contain the key to all of our nation's problems. I was using exaggeration to make a point. It's a rhetorical device.

oh i see, you were making a point using a statement you didn't mean! :roll: are you a politician?

finchy

louthepoo wrote:

oh i see, you were making a point using a statement you didn't mean! :roll: are you a politician?

No, just a normal human being. :P

billysmeg

Sod em, the world can end the second i die.. :evil:

daviesee

I can only comment on personal experience.

I have not taken anything from my elders. I have not mortgaged the future and I have not shafted future generations.

What I have done is got off my ass, worked hard and earned the right to do what I want with the money that I have earned.

Waiting for the world to provide you with anything is a mugs game. If you want something, go out and earn the right to get it.