Tour presentation next week

13

Comments

  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    FJS wrote:
    Definitely a climbers' route. I think it's a better, more selective route, with more elements that make for interesting races than most of the TdF routes over the last 10 years or so, but nowhere near the level set by the Giro, and to some degree Vuelta.

    Positives:
    - The Pinerolo-Galibier stage. Agnel, Izoard, Galibier.
    - no holding back in the first mountain week like last two years. The Luz-Ardiden stage and Plateau de Beille are proper mountain stages, not half-baked ones with 50km of flat at the end.
    - seems ASO searched actively for hill-top finishes in the first week to spice it up, or at least have a variety of teams and sprinters featuring. Mur-de-Bretagne will be nice.
    - the Central Massif before the Pyrenees, with some climbing in the first weekend

    Missed opportunities:
    - making the cobbles a permanent feature
    - including the Finistere in the stage to Pinerolo
    - including a stage longer than 226 km; it's all very short next year
    - designing a proper Central Massif mountain stage for the GC riders to do battle. This is more for break-aways

    The Pinerolo-Galibier stage has the potential of the Alpe d'Huez stage in 2008, pretty epic really.

    The Pyrenees are used properly, which is good. Unlike the last couple of years with the flat finishes after the mountains.

    As for the the Fenestre, isn't the rumour that it's gona be in the Giro next year, so maybe that's why Monsieur Prudhomme didn't include it
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Are they actual mountain TOP finishes this time? As in finishing while still going uphill?

    I can't quite tell for certain, but in some of the profiles it looked like they dropped off at the end?
  • oscarbudgie
    oscarbudgie Posts: 850
    Its a real dopers route
    Cannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 3000
  • ketsbaia
    ketsbaia Posts: 1,718
    AdH stage is a bit disappointing, no? It's like half a Marmotte. OK, maybe two thirds, but still.
    One more gear

    Strava profile
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    "For the 2011 points classification, Prudhomme announced one single intermediate sprint per stage, awarded half the points of the stage finish. This way, the sprinters will have to sprint twice instead of only once if they want to score – possibly catching any breakaways earlier than usual."



    Green jersey will be tough to win - won't be won on stage finishes alone by the looks of it. Depends on where that first intermediate sprint falls on the stage.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    ketsbaia wrote:
    AdH stage is a bit disappointing, no? It's like half a Marmotte. OK, maybe two thirds, but still.

    Not really, the length of the stage could help encourage early attacking (though I won't hold my breath).
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Pross wrote:
    ketsbaia wrote:
    AdH stage is a bit disappointing, no? It's like half a Marmotte. OK, maybe two thirds, but still.

    Not really, the length of the stage could help encourage early attacking (though I won't hold my breath).

    Methinks ASO are trying to engineer something happening on that day. But its the Tour and people would rather defend their 7'th position than gamble it on an attack.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    Pokerface wrote:
    "For the 2011 points classification, Prudhomme announced one single intermediate sprint per stage, awarded half the points of the stage finish. This way, the sprinters will have to sprint twice instead of only once if they want to score – possibly catching any breakaways earlier than usual."



    Green jersey will be tough to win - won't be won on stage finishes alone by the looks of it. Depends on where that first intermediate sprint falls on the stage.

    Just trying to think how this will affect things....If Thor can stay up there in top 3 in the bunch sprints in the first week then he could really take advantage by trying to go off the front in the mountains like he has in the past. He probably has most to gain out of this new system, the other contenders (Cav, Farrar, Griepel etc) will all just have to pay more attention to the intermediates on the flat stages than they normally would do. If the sprints are at the halfway point in the stage or earlier then it would still give breakaways a chance to try their luck afterwards.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    "For the 2011 points classification, Prudhomme announced one single intermediate sprint per stage, awarded half the points of the stage finish. This way, the sprinters will have to sprint twice instead of only once if they want to score – possibly catching any breakaways earlier than usual."



    Green jersey will be tough to win - won't be won on stage finishes alone by the looks of it. Depends on where that first intermediate sprint falls on the stage.

    Just trying to think how this will affect things....If Thor can stay up there in top 3 in the bunch sprints in the first week then he could really take advantage by trying to go off the front in the mountains like he has in the past. He probably has most to gain out of this new system, the other contenders (Cav, Farrar, Griepel etc) will all just have to pay more attention to the intermediates on the flat stages than they normally would do. If the sprints are at the halfway point in the stage or earlier then it would still give breakaways a chance to try their luck afterwards.

    Is there some slim chance they are trying to move the green jersey away from being a sprinters prize to reward consistent riding on all terrain through 3 weeks?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • ketsbaia
    ketsbaia Posts: 1,718
    iainf72 wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    ketsbaia wrote:
    AdH stage is a bit disappointing, no? It's like half a Marmotte. OK, maybe two thirds, but still.

    Not really, the length of the stage could help encourage early attacking (though I won't hold my breath).

    Methinks ASO are trying to engineer something happening on that day. But its the Tour and people would rather defend their 7'th position than gamble it on an attack.

    Exactly. Might as well make it difficult, then, 'cos no one's gonna go for it.
    One more gear

    Strava profile
  • dave milne
    dave milne Posts: 703
    looks good to me. both sets of mountains look hard.
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    "For the 2011 points classification, Prudhomme announced one single intermediate sprint per stage, awarded half the points of the stage finish. This way, the sprinters will have to sprint twice instead of only once if they want to score – possibly catching any breakaways earlier than usual."



    Green jersey will be tough to win - won't be won on stage finishes alone by the looks of it. Depends on where that first intermediate sprint falls on the stage.

    Just trying to think how this will affect things....If Thor can stay up there in top 3 in the bunch sprints in the first week then he could really take advantage by trying to go off the front in the mountains like he has in the past. He probably has most to gain out of this new system, the other contenders (Cav, Farrar, Griepel etc) will all just have to pay more attention to the intermediates on the flat stages than they normally would do. If the sprints are at the halfway point in the stage or earlier then it would still give breakaways a chance to try their luck afterwards.

    yes, but pokerface's quote is incomplete. The top 15 riders will score even in the intermediate sprints. So the change has the opposite effect to what you're suggesting - it means that the breakaway becomes less important, as there will be plenty of points left over even after the lead riders pass, so the green contenders will need to sprint at the front of the peloton at the intermediate sprint every day.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    "For the 2011 points classification, Prudhomme announced one single intermediate sprint per stage, awarded half the points of the stage finish. This way, the sprinters will have to sprint twice instead of only once if they want to score – possibly catching any breakaways earlier than usual."



    Green jersey will be tough to win - won't be won on stage finishes alone by the looks of it. Depends on where that first intermediate sprint falls on the stage.

    Just trying to think how this will affect things....If Thor can stay up there in top 3 in the bunch sprints in the first week then he could really take advantage by trying to go off the front in the mountains like he has in the past. He probably has most to gain out of this new system, the other contenders (Cav, Farrar, Griepel etc) will all just have to pay more attention to the intermediates on the flat stages than they normally would do. If the sprints are at the halfway point in the stage or earlier then it would still give breakaways a chance to try their luck afterwards.
    It could also make it a competition for an other category of rider, like happened with the mountain jersey. Second-level (French?) sprinters could consistently try to get in breaks and pick points at the finish too, riders like Fedrigo, Bonnet, Seb Hinault, Romain Feillu...
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    avoidingmyphd wrote:
    yes, but pokerface's quote is incomplete. The top 15 riders will score even in the intermediate sprints. So the change has the opposite effect to what you're suggesting - it means that the breakaway becomes less important, as there will be plenty of points left over even after the lead riders pass, so the green contenders will need to sprint at the front of the peloton at the intermediate sprint every day.
    depends on the size of the breakaway ;)
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    "For the 2011 points classification, Prudhomme announced one single intermediate sprint per stage, awarded half the points of the stage finish. This way, the sprinters will have to sprint twice instead of only once if they want to score – possibly catching any breakaways earlier than usual."



    Green jersey will be tough to win - won't be won on stage finishes alone by the looks of it. Depends on where that first intermediate sprint falls on the stage.

    Just trying to think how this will affect things....If Thor can stay up there in top 3 in the bunch sprints in the first week then he could really take advantage by trying to go off the front in the mountains like he has in the past. He probably has most to gain out of this new system, the other contenders (Cav, Farrar, Griepel etc) will all just have to pay more attention to the intermediates on the flat stages than they normally would do. If the sprints are at the halfway point in the stage or earlier then it would still give breakaways a chance to try their luck afterwards.

    Is there some slim chance they are trying to move the green jersey away from being a sprinters prize to reward consistent riding on all terrain through 3 weeks?

    Possibly, but surely the best way of doing that would be to increase the points available for hill and mountain finishes to the same level as for the flat stages as i believe happens in the Giro. The danger of that is that it becomes a bit of a nothing comp, like the KOM has been in danger of becoming, where it is won by a rider who rode pretty well but never really excelled at any point. Personally I think the points jersey works well as a target for the sprinters, for example in 09 it was a more exciting competition than the GC and next year could be a cracker if we get to see Cav, Farrar and Griepel all targetting it.

    Not sure what will happen with Hushovd and Farrar in the tour, guess they'll just have to pick who their main sprinter is going to be....surely Farrar has the chance to win more stages?
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    iainf72 wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    ketsbaia wrote:
    AdH stage is a bit disappointing, no? It's like half a Marmotte. OK, maybe two thirds, but still.
    Not really, the length of the stage could help encourage early attacking (though I won't hold my breath).
    Methinks ASO are trying to engineer something happening on that day. But its the Tour and people would rather defend their 7'th position than gamble it on an attack.
    So it looks like tempo up the Galibier and a long freewheel to Bourg-d'Oisans and while they all watch one another, then Sastre moves off to steal another TDF.

    Another choice is that someone attacks while out of the saddle and his chain comes off while attempting to change gear.

    Another choice is it pours with cold rain and Pantani attacks up the Galibier and then has the cheek to stop at the top of the Lottery to put a cape on and then win the stage.

    It's a 68 mile stage followed the next day by a long 25 mile TT, ffs (that in the old days would have been stage (a) and stage (b) on one day and all they had was amphetamines)
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • sonny73
    sonny73 Posts: 2,203
    From http://www.letour.com/2011/TDF/COURSE/us/les_sommets_du_tour.html:sommets_du_tour_01.gif
    sommets_du_tour_02.gif
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    When do they categorise the climbs? I know most are regulars but even they sometimes change plus it would be good to get an idea of the severity of some of the medium stages.
  • squired
    squired Posts: 1,153
    Could strategically placed intermediate sprints help to mix up the racing a bit. A standard stage sees an early breakaway go, which is reeled in, followed by a bunch sprint. So, could they place them at points where teams might want to reel breaks in, but far enough out that other breaks go? I'm not getting my hopes up because the TDF is the ultimate in join-the-dots racing.

    As for the stage up Alpe D'Huez, I never look forward to stages ending there. The valley before the base of the climb means that no-one will try anything. They might as well have it flat to the base of the climb. At least a couple of the mountain stage profiles indicate limited valley between climbs, leaving a slim chance that people will try to go early.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    squired wrote:
    Could strategically placed intermediate sprints help to mix up the racing a bit. A standard stage sees an early breakaway go, which is reeled in, followed by a bunch sprint. So, could they place them at points where teams might want to reel breaks in, but far enough out that other breaks go? I'm not getting my hopes up because the TDF is the ultimate in join-the-dots racing.

    As for the stage up Alpe D'Huez, I never look forward to stages ending there. The valley before the base of the climb means that no-one will try anything. They might as well have it flat to the base of the climb. At least a couple of the mountain stage profiles indicate limited valley between climbs, leaving a slim chance that people will try to go early.

    There are now 2 sprint points with the same points for both. One at the end of the stage and one half way through. This should mean a sprint in the middle of the stage contested by all the top men rather than just the top three and even with a breakaway points for the top 15 means there will still be something to fight for.

    Think Cav will have to work on hanging in there more like some of the other sprinters are able to do. Zabel could teach him a thing or two about that
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    ok stage 19...its the tail end of the race and loads of guys will just not be bothered but its short

    holding tempo on the galibier vs everybody having a pop early because the alp is not that far off?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    mididoctors wrote:
    ok stage 19...its the tail end of the race and loads of guys will just not be bothered but its short

    holding tempo on the galibier vs everybody having a pop early because the alp is not that far off?

    The former.

    Too much to lose at that stage of the race to warrant a mad attack on the Galibier with the Alpe still to come.

    Anyone who hasn't got anything to lose won't have the legs to be able to do it anyway, nor would it matter if they did.
    _
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    A couple of uphill sprints in the first week and a couple of lumpy, phoney war stages to start week 2.
    HTC will probably be scrapping with Garmin in the TTT, so as their respective sprinters can walk the walk, instead of having the usual, Cancellara yellow week.

    The mountains, IMO.
    I like the look of stage 12. It is tough and offers little respite between the Tourmalet and Luz Ardiden. A new climb in there, too.
    Decisive.........on paper.
    Stage 13: More pointless Pau poo.
    Stage 14: The Plateau is always good for a sort out, but it's a long way from the d'Agneau. Polka dot battleground.
    Stage 17 is a nothing mountain stage. The two early, major climbs are long drags but too far from the finish. All about the final "blip".
    Stage 18 has the really big stuff; the high, high mountains, but climbs the Galibier from the lesser side. All about tempo trains and attrition.
    Major damage, but minor attacking.
    Stage 19 is a really tough 100kms. Tired legs etc, but maybe, by then, it could all be about defending GC positions.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    ok stage 19...its the tail end of the race and loads of guys will just not be bothered but its short

    holding tempo on the galibier vs everybody having a pop early because the alp is not that far off?

    The former.

    Too much to lose at that stage of the race to warrant a mad attack on the Galibier with the Alpe still to come.

    Anyone who hasn't got anything to lose won't have the legs to be able to do it anyway, nor would it matter if they did.

    yeah

    i guess they went for short to try an encourage someone to have a go and make a stage of it...

    we will see
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Depends. If one of the GC guys is struggling then they could lose quite a few minutes by the top of the Galibier encouraging people to go all oyut from the start. Will be some people worried about the time limit if that happens. Only 9 months to wait to find out :lol:
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Cumulonimbus wrote:
    Depends. If one of the GC guys is struggling then they could lose quite a few minutes by the top of the Galibier encouraging people to go all oyut from the start. Will be some people worried about the time limit if that happens. Only 9 months to wait to find out :lol:

    :lol::wink:

    oh dear winter and I need the miles
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    sherer wrote:

    There are now 2 sprint points with the same points for both. One at the end of the stage and one half way through. This should mean a sprint in the middle of the stage contested by all the top men rather than just the top three and even with a breakaway points for the top 15 means there will still be something to fight for.


    Yeah - that's wrong.


    45 points for the stage win. 20 points for the intermediate win. You can take a total of 65 points in one day.

    (Or I read 40 FTW and 25 Inter)
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    No Cobble stage...booo!! :cry:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    Pokerface wrote:
    sherer wrote:

    There are now 2 sprint points with the same points for both. One at the end of the stage and one half way through. This should mean a sprint in the middle of the stage contested by all the top men rather than just the top three and even with a breakaway points for the top 15 means there will still be something to fight for.


    Yeah - that's wrong.


    45 points for the stage win. 20 points for the intermediate win. You can take a total of 65 points in one day.

    (Or I read 40 FTW and 25 Inter)

    Thanks for the correction. Must have missed the bit about the points being different but still more reason to go for them this year.

    Any idea if the prize fund is greater ? Green jersey always has a good fight but sometimes the KOM isn't that great
  • lucybears
    lucybears Posts: 366
    Sprinters will face new challenges in the 2011 Tour de France
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/10/ ... 46910?news
    interview.cyclingfever.com

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