Argument with LBS
Comments
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blablablacksheep wrote:never buy stuff from a LBS, sorry to say this but LBSs alwlays rip you off with goods as this their only way to make cash, they tend to not buy in bulk so tend to get bad deals.
In turn they sell you stuff way over the typical RRP you get from internet,
id say £20 is typical price to fit a small part sadly, but i wouldnt at all say £50 a hour is fair as that plain stupid,.
it best to buy parts online then ask them how much to fit before you agree.
I think LBS are going to suffer a lot in the "current times" as people exspect prices based on what they see online , end of the day i have some sadness for them going under but this the way of a competitive market if you cant survive or be competitive then you kind of deserve to go under.
A good bike shop with good people can have decent prices and service costs and still make good money.. lots of small companys out there doing well.
Are you even educated about how owning a shop works, or are you only worried about prices from the internet. The reason prices are always lower on the internet is because they don't have shop fronts, and can fit 50x the amount of products in the same place since the general public won't be viewing them.
50 an hour is about the norm for bike shops in terms of services. And to be quite honest the good ones are not going under, because of the pricing of their services. If they charge too cheap, not enough revenue to support themselves in the long run when periods die down a little.
But hey I guess your one of those tards who is only worried about saving your extra 3 pounds rather than checking it out before hand. I'd much rather have a shop where I know all the people who work there, ride with them, and when I need a part desperately, but don't have the cash right away, can go get it and come pay later when i'Ve got cash. That's why LBS's are good, because they become your friends compared to buying online where your only some statistic to them.0 -
+1DCR00 wrote:I only ever get the LBS to do stuff i either 1. cant or 2.mess up
Would always rather do it myself
There's a good sense of satisfaction in managing to DIY and knowing that it's a new skill learnt and next time it will take no time at all with much money saved.
But yeah, £20 for an LBS to do it sounds reasonable. I'd expect them to charge £20 as a minimum for just about any job if it takes them up to an hour.
I wouldn't even get out of bed for less than £20 an hour myself
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But it takes 10 minutes to put a mech on, not an hour, plus they made a sale.Smarter than the average bear.0
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I charge for an hour, whether it's 10 minutes work or an hour
(okay that's for writing software, not fixing bikes).0 -
£50 an hour is not unusual for any labour .... especially when there are retail premises involved.
The mark up on parts may be less than you think. I part owned a motorcycle accessory shop for a while, mark up was x1.3, doubt cycle trade is so different but may be wrong
High end clothing where my wife works is currently x2.7. Women spend money.0 -
antfly wrote:But it takes 10 minutes to put a mech on, not an hour, plus they made a sale.
Yeah but they can't say 50p a minute or something so you owe us a 5er.
They charge for a half hour for jobs under 30 minutes. Which is only natural.0 -
Being a bike mechanic is a semi skilled job...no qualifications required, no regulated practice standards to answer to, so £50 per hour is taking the piss....the only reason they are getting away with charging that amount is because cycling has never been so popular, They are just making hay while the sun shines.
The qualified mechanic who fixes my Cars only charges £30 an hour and lets me supply my own parts if I want and has a thriving business despite having huge overheads.
As for the £20 charge OP incurred....I think that is fair as every business should have a minimum charge, having said that though putting up the price of the part does seem out of order....go back in in 3 weeks time and see what they are charging or phone them and ask...if it's back to £50 then superglue the shop locks or smack him in the mouth.0 -
Semi-skilled at best, i`ve just noticed they put my gear cables on so that they are crossing over. Stupid idiots.Smarter than the average bear.0
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Name and shame0
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antfly wrote:Semi-skilled at best, i`ve just noticed they put my gear cables on so that they are crossing over. Stupid idiots.
How do you mean cross?
Some should cross on the down tube as it gives a better line to the mechs0 -
They are crossed on the downtube, yes. It don't look right, could it be right?Smarter than the average bear.0
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Just googled...and they should cross0
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OK, I googled it too and it would appear that it's down to personal preference, they can go either way. It just don't look right to me.Smarter than the average bear.0
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im not a fan of lbs, ive had a few dogshit run ins with the few i have frequented.
id rather wait a tad longer and have somethign cheaper which i can fit myself.
mind you, im a legend dont forget.0 -
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I see. It does look neat and tidy at the headtube.
I'm happy to apologise to the semi-skilled mechanic that did it.Smarter than the average bear.0 -
If you want to see badly fitted cables here some fitted by a lbs ....
Picked it up from lbs took it out on a all day trip but had to abandon the ride after about 2/3 hrs as i just kept losing the gear indexing and for the life of me i couldn't work out why till i got it home and washed it! Good job i stopped when i did cos the gear cable had very nearly cut through the brake hose, it so could have ended in disaster :evil: I've never used a lbs for stuff like this since !
However i do still believe that LBS's have their place !0 -
antfly wrote:But it takes 10 minutes to put a mech on, not an hour, plus they made a sale.
Yes it takes maybe 10 mins to fit the part but then their are the extras nobody thinks about.
1st you have to book the bike in, job card made, maybe wash the bike. thats another 10-15 mins already. Fit the parts test run adjust. 10-15 Then fill job card in,5 mins somebody then invoices, 5mins.Then hand back bike as customer pays and explain work, 5 mins
It all adds up and somebody has to pay for it.
So a 10 min job turns into a 40-45 min job!!!0 -
I reasoned with the shop and explained that I know it can't take them more than 15 minutes to bolt the new mech (I had removed the old one), stick the existing cable in and adjust the indexing. I explained that £60/hour labour should be enough (my Porsche indie does not charge me more than that) so £15 should have covered it nicely. I also found out that they charge £25 to change an entire transmission.
As for the price of the mech, Madison did indeed increase the SRP after I had ordered it so they honoured the price they had originally quoted, £50-10% discount. Total £60 which seems fair. CRC charge £40 for the mech as it's GS, which for some reason is more expensive than the longer cage... All sorted and friends again!0 -
pugaltitude wrote:antfly wrote:But it takes 10 minutes to put a mech on, not an hour, plus they made a sale.
Yes it takes maybe 10 mins to fit the part but then their are the extras nobody thinks about.
1st you have to book the bike in, job card made, maybe wash the bike. thats another 10-15 mins already. Fit the parts test run adjust. 10-15 Then fill job card in,5 mins somebody then invoices, 5mins.Then hand back bike as customer pays and explain work, 5 mins
It all adds up and somebody has to pay for it.
So a 10 min job turns into a 40-45 min job!!!
While I agree that it's not only a 10 minute job, your vastly overexagerating times there.
Job card takes 20 seconds on both incoming and outgoing bikes, all they need is name of customer telephone and brief description. Invoicing does not take 5 minutes either, I can prepare invoices in about 20 seconds as well with multiple items and full details of the customer, and still have it look good.
While I see your point about it taking longer, it's not that long, and it definiteily shouldn'T be accounted for in the total time to service your part. Those are all parts of overheads, and they are covered by the markup of services. If I sold you a car, i'm not going to charge you for the 3 hours it takes to sign all the contracts, or the time to show you the car to take it for a test drive and such.0 -
How long it takes to fill in the card depends on the individual.
One guy might do it in 20 seconds, another may shuffle around for 10 minutes trying to avoid doing anything and maybe half arsed ask a customer if they need help, then eventually get round to doing the card, probably when prompted for the 5th time by his boss.
I'd say this is more typical of a chain though than an independent. The latter is probably more concerned with the health of the business.0 -
deadkenny wrote:How long it takes to fill in the card depends on the individual.
One guy might do it in 20 seconds, another may shuffle around for 10 minutes trying to avoid doing anything and maybe half arsed ask a customer if they need help, then eventually get round to doing the card, probably when prompted for the 5th time by his boss.
I'd say this is more typical of a chain though than an independent. The latter is probably more concerned with the health of the business.
It does depend on the individual, but at the end of the day i'm not going to pay for you trying to avoid work if you know what I mean. Just like I wouldn't pay for 3 hours labor if someone took that long to do my oil change on my car. It's not my fault the person is lazy, and I certainly won'T be paying out of my pocket because they didn't want to start their work yet.
That then becomes the problem of the business, not he customer when it comes to work ethic of the staff.0 -
Hence just DIY, then you know what service you're getting 0
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I was charged £15 per half hour which is probably fair.
I think those people who seem quite happy to pay upwards of £50 an hour for the services of a semi-skilled bike mechanic should keep quiet or they might start putting their prices up. :?Smarter than the average bear.0 -
MountainMonster wrote:pugaltitude wrote:antfly wrote:But it takes 10 minutes to put a mech on, not an hour, plus they made a sale.
Yes it takes maybe 10 mins to fit the part but then their are the extras nobody thinks about.
1st you have to book the bike in, job card made, maybe wash the bike. thats another 10-15 mins already. Fit the parts test run adjust. 10-15 Then fill job card in,5 mins somebody then invoices, 5mins.Then hand back bike as customer pays and explain work, 5 mins
It all adds up and somebody has to pay for it.
So a 10 min job turns into a 40-45 min job!!!
While I agree that it's not only a 10 minute job, your vastly overexagerating times there.
Job card takes 20 seconds on both incoming and outgoing bikes, all they need is name of customer telephone and brief description. Invoicing does not take 5 minutes either, I can prepare invoices in about 20 seconds as well with multiple items and full details of the customer, and still have it look good.
While I see your point about it taking longer, it's not that long, and it definiteily shouldn'T be accounted for in the total time to service your part. Those are all parts of overheads, and they are covered by the markup of services. If I sold you a car, i'm not going to charge you for the 3 hours it takes to sign all the contracts, or the time to show you the car to take it for a test drive and such.
every job that is in a workshop is a service and all overheads have to be paid regardless if its a 10 min job or a 3 hour job surely. Even sales, the price for paper work etc is in the price of the car. or if you sell at cost price thats just bad business. Maybe I did exagerate a little but its close.0 -
pugaltitude wrote:MountainMonster wrote:pugaltitude wrote:antfly wrote:But it takes 10 minutes to put a mech on, not an hour, plus they made a sale.
Yes it takes maybe 10 mins to fit the part but then their are the extras nobody thinks about.
1st you have to book the bike in, job card made, maybe wash the bike. thats another 10-15 mins already. Fit the parts test run adjust. 10-15 Then fill job card in,5 mins somebody then invoices, 5mins.Then hand back bike as customer pays and explain work, 5 mins
It all adds up and somebody has to pay for it.
So a 10 min job turns into a 40-45 min job!!!
While I agree that it's not only a 10 minute job, your vastly overexagerating times there.
Job card takes 20 seconds on both incoming and outgoing bikes, all they need is name of customer telephone and brief description. Invoicing does not take 5 minutes either, I can prepare invoices in about 20 seconds as well with multiple items and full details of the customer, and still have it look good.
While I see your point about it taking longer, it's not that long, and it definiteily shouldn'T be accounted for in the total time to service your part. Those are all parts of overheads, and they are covered by the markup of services. If I sold you a car, i'm not going to charge you for the 3 hours it takes to sign all the contracts, or the time to show you the car to take it for a test drive and such.
every job that is in a workshop is a service and all overheads have to be paid regardless if its a 10 min job or a 3 hour job surely. Even sales, the price for paper work etc is in the price of the car. or if you sell at cost price thats just bad business. Maybe I did exagerate a little but its close.
My whole point was that the end customer should nto be compensating for overheads, they are built into the price via markup and such, and we should not be compensating any more than we do to keep the business afloat. I won't be any extra because the mechanic or whoever is booking something in is being slow about doing their job. It can be done in a reasonable amount of time, and I won't pay any extra due to laziness.0 -
Service charges are included in that "and such".MountainMonster wrote:My whole point was that the end customer should nto be compensating for overheads, they are built into the price via markup and such, and we should not be compensating any more than we do to keep the business afloat. I won't be any extra because the mechanic or whoever is booking something in is being slow about doing their job. It can be done in a reasonable amount of time, and I won't pay any extra due to laziness.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:
Service charges are included in that "and such".MountainMonster wrote:My whole point was that the end customer should nto be compensating for overheads, they are built into the price via markup and such, and we should not be compensating any more than we do to keep the business afloat. I won't be any extra because the mechanic or whoever is booking something in is being slow about doing their job. It can be done in a reasonable amount of time, and I won't pay any extra due to laziness.
No they are not. They should come built into any prices which are paid by the customer via the purchase of a product, or use of a service. The end customer should only be paying for what he she receives, not anything more. It is unfair to be paying for the costs of paper and such when it is already built into their pricing strategies through their services price of physical products available for purchase through a retail outlet.0 -
But making money on a service is just as viable as making money by selling products, is it not?0
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MountainMonster wrote:yeehaamcgee wrote:
Service charges are included in that "and such".MountainMonster wrote:My whole point was that the end customer should nto be compensating for overheads, they are built into the price via markup and such, and we should not be compensating any more than we do to keep the business afloat. I won't be any extra because the mechanic or whoever is booking something in is being slow about doing their job. It can be done in a reasonable amount of time, and I won't pay any extra due to laziness.
No they are not. They should come built into any prices which are paid by the customer via the purchase of a product, or use of a service. The end customer should only be paying for what he she receives, not anything more. It is unfair to be paying for the costs of paper and such when it is already built into their pricing strategies through their services price of physical products available for purchase through a retail outlet.
I normally do my own work, but recently had a BB and crankset fitted by my LBS, as some idiot had rounded out the crank bolts. (Not this idiot - SH bike).
In the end they had to hacksaw the old cranks off.
I bought the bits from CRC.
By your logic, should they have done the work for nothing?I don't do smileys.
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