Writing a will.

ademort

Unfortunately my Father has been given the worst news you could ever wish to hear. He has only Months to live. My Mother died several years ago and as i am the oldest of three children my Father wants me to write his will out for him. Does anyone have any good advice, websites or personal experiences they would like to share. I dont mind writing the will but of course want to make sure that after my Fathers death there are no Legal problems as regards his estate or his wishes. He does not want to employ a solicitor.
Ademort

timb64

Ademort-very sorry to hear your news-might it be worth agreeing with your siblings to share the cost of getting a will properly drawn up to avoid any problems after your dad's passed away?

ademort

timb64 wrote:

Ademort-very sorry to hear your news-might it be worth agreeing with your siblings to share the cost of getting a will properly drawn up to avoid any problems after your dad's passed away?

Is that possible,i thought a will had to be drawn up before a person passes away.
Ademort

mroli

Ademort - sorry to hear it and it is very sensible of your father to take these steps.

I think that Tim thought that you and your siblings would pay for it to be done prior to your father passing away.

I would say that it may be wise to get someone legally qualified and experienced in will-making to draw up the will - there are a number of pitfalls you can fall into and having one done properly, with no chance of it being set aside, or held to be invalid would be very sensible. I'm not sure if you are in the UK or in the Netherlands, but certainly in the UK, there are common pitfalls in will writing that could lead to problems if contested.

I would also say that you writing it out for him is probably not the best idea in case there is any argument about it later on - in any event it will need witnessing independently.

It shouldn't be that expensive to get a will written and would be worth it to save the hassle.

rf6

Having recently done my will I would recommend going to a solicitor. The cost was very reasonable, and they have the experience to foresee problems you may not think of - they did for me.

I took along a list of what I wanted to happen, the brief suggested a few changes to that , and a lot of inclusions I would never have thought of.

spen666

Ademort, as a solicitor can I give a couple of bits of advice

You should not draw it up.

1. It could be argued that you have exerted undue influence on your father and any gift to you could be treated as invalid

2. It is far too easy t otry to do a will, and make a mistake and asa result cost the deceased's estate £000s. It is sensible to use a lawyer at the outset, for what is likely to be a relatively small sum of money, you get peace of mind and comeback if anything does go wrong

timb64

mroli wrote:

I think that Tim thought that you and your siblings would pay for it to be done prior to your father passing away.

mroli

You're right I was suggesting the family pay for a will to be proerly drawn up now

ademort

spen666 wrote:

Ademort, as a solicitor can I give a couple of bits of advice

You should not draw it up.

1. It could be argued that you have exerted undue influence on your father and any gift to you could be treated as invalid

2. It is far too easy t otry to do a will, and make a mistake and asa result cost the deceased's estate £000s. It is sensible to use a lawyer at the outset, for what is likely to be a relatively small sum of money, you get peace of mind and comeback if anything does go wrong

Thanks Spen for your advice its much appreciated. However my Father refuses to have his will drawn up by a solicitor. It,s not a question of money, he has plenty. He,s very stubborn and point blank refuses to do it legally. Dont know if this helps but he wants all his estate property, bank account etc split three ways between me my Brother and Sister. Is it possible that i could do it. Or could i go to a solicitor myself with a rough draft of my fathers wishes and have the solicitor help me draw it up. I s that possible.. Ademort

Mad Roadie

ademort
thats terrible news - I am sorry. but as ever on the forum there are plenty all willing to give you a full spectrum of advice and comment - if your father does'nt like solicitors - have you tried the banks - I know HSBC do a will writing service - or perhaps one of the charities might be more appropriate if your dad has a favourite?

but for sure him passing away without a will, or with a will which is challenged would be bad, at the most difficult of times - i have seen siblings totally overcome with wranglings after their parents died over a disputed will.

spen666

ademort wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Ademort, as a solicitor can I give a couple of bits of advice

You should not draw it up.

1. It could be argued that you have exerted undue influence on your father and any gift to you could be treated as invalid

2. It is far too easy t otry to do a will, and make a mistake and asa result cost the deceased's estate £000s. It is sensible to use a lawyer at the outset, for what is likely to be a relatively small sum of money, you get peace of mind and comeback if anything does go wrong

Thanks Spen for your advice its much appreciated. However my Father refuses to have his will drawn up by a solicitor. It,s not a question of money, he has plenty. He,s very stubborn and point blank refuses to do it legally. Dont know if this helps but he wants all his estate property, bank account etc split three ways between me my Brother and Sister. Is it possible that i could do it. Or could i go to a solicitor myself with a rough draft of my fathers wishes and have the solicitor help me draw it up. I s that possible.. Ademort

a) Do not think a 3 way split would prevent fighting.over wills - sadly

b) you cannot instruct a solicitor to prepare a will for someone else. The solicitor needs to satisfy himeself the instructions are those of the person msking the will.

rodgers73

I'm a solicitor doing wills/probate work and this is one of those areas where the costs saved in doing it yourself are just not worth it compared to the risk you're taking if you get it wrong. However, spen is right that you cant get a solicitor to draw it up for you without him meeting your father.

To give you some peace of mind though -

1. Is your mother still alive?

2. Has your father ever been married to anyone other than your mother or or is he in any sort of relationship at the moment?.

3. Does he have any other children apart from you and your two siblings?

4. Has he had any other children who have died during his lifetime? If so did they leave any children of their own who are still alive?

Depending on your answers the Intestacy Rules may split his estate equally between the three of you anyway so a will may not be entirely necessary (although preferable).

One other alternative would be to use a Will Writer. These are not solicitors and are an unregulated profession so the quality of their work is not guaranteed. However, they will do a much better job than you would doing it yourself for the first time. If asked nicely you may even persuade one of them to write it for you as they arent regulated by the Law Society. They usually advertise in your local paper at about £50 per will. Look out for the hidden costs though - storage fees and getting themselves appointed as executors so they can charge for doing the work after the death.

Thanks

Tom

ademort

Thanks for your replys. I,m coming to the UK on Wednesday so will have a chat with my Dad face to face. The bank suggestion sounds interesting, will check that out. As i,ve said he will not entertain a solicitor at all and is so bloody stubborn. Will see what i can do and thanks again to all. It really is much appreciated.
Ademort

Stone Glider

Sad to hear of your bad news. My father had a similar aversion to settling matters in anticipation of mortality. It made for a difficult period when both my parents died within a short space of time. However the Probate Service (I believe they have a different title now) people were very helpful.

There are "standard" wills available from stationers/legal stationers which your father could use. They are a limited document but will give a lead to the intentions of the deceased when Probate have to settle your father's affairs. They also have full legal status if filled in correctly.

Hope the advice above and elsewhere is of help.

mrushton

Sorry to hear this - the loss of your parents is always hard. Perhaps you could print some of the advice given on here and let your father read it. He wants his estate split equally but he must get everything in writing as death does strange things to people when money is involved. He knows his children aren't going to fight it out but to give him peace of mind in his last days then setting everything out legally is the only way.
He should also make sure all siblings are kept informed so no-one feels aggrieved they were 'left-out'. Have you given thought to a Power of Attorney? This is necessary if your father is no longer able to make decisions for himself.

My own father died intestate ie he didn't leave a will and it cost about £2k to get the estate sorted. If your father reads this I'll say he needs to enjoy his time left to him and settle everything he has worked for to his satisfaction. When my mother was told she had only a certain time left she made sure I had Power of Attorney (I'm an only child) as she trusted me and near the end cooly handed me a cheque for £2k for her funeral as she knew her bank account would be frozen until Probate was fulfilled.

if there is anything he wants to do get it done - you'll remember the good days when you have bad ones. A solicitor has your fathers interest to look after - nt you or your siblings so that is the sensible thing to do.

spen666

ademort wrote:

Thanks for your replys. I,m coming to the UK on Wednesday so will have a chat with my Dad face to face. The bank suggestion sounds interesting, will check that out. As i,ve said he will not entertain a solicitor at all and is so bloody stubborn. Will see what i can do and thanks again to all. It really is much appreciated.
Ademort

I would NOT recommend the bank approach.

They will want themselves or their nominee company to be the executors and charge through the nose for work you can do yourself.

IMHO the best approach is to: -

1. Get will drawn up by a lawyer
2. Ensure trustees are you and your siblings. The probate work is straight forward.

It is probate work where the big profit will be made by the professionals, not in drafting wills

ademort

spen666 wrote:

ademort wrote:

Thanks for your replys. I,m coming to the UK on Wednesday so will have a chat with my Dad face to face. The bank suggestion sounds interesting, will check that out. As i,ve said he will not entertain a solicitor at all and is so bloody stubborn. Will see what i can do and thanks again to all. It really is much appreciated.
Ademort

I would NOT recommend the bank approach.

They will want themselves or their nominee company to be the executors and charge through the nose for work you can do yourself.

IMHO the best approach is to: -

1. Get will drawn up by a lawyer
2. Ensure trustees are you and your siblings. The probate work is straight forward.

It is probate work where the big profit will be made by the professionals, not in drafting wills

I wil let my Father read these posts and hope he sees sense. as my Father is leaving everything to his children to be divided equally he feels that it should not be a problem. However there is one other thing which i am worried about.My Father is dying as a result of an occupational disease and wants a full PM after his death and the results handing to his union solicitors so they can pursue a claim on his behalf. He is under the impression that i can write all these wishes out and all we need is two witnesses and everything will be ok.After reading the above posts it,s obviously anything but easy and more importantly will it be legally binding, probably not. My Dad is so stubborn , it could be a few difficult days ahead, but thanks again. Advice from experts is always welcome.Will keep you informed.
ademort

plowmar

A really sad situation and anything I say will not make the position easier. So please know that all of our thoughts are with you. This wasn't meant to be smalshy (?) but hopefully you know what I mean.

1) re banks, yes they do charge a lot but you do not have to have them as exors.

2) funeral expenses - when I did this when in a bank, these were the first debt that had to be paid and were usually paid from monies in the account, either wholly or partially depending on the balance, prior to probate being granted.

dilemna

Do not do a DIY will. It may well be invalid and as spen says if you draw it up and witness it or as your father intends are a benficiary then you will find it very hard to rebutt the presumption of undue influence plus having drawn it up it there would be no way you could benefit. A Will is a legal document formalising his affairs and wishes on death ensuring that they aren't open to challenge, dispute or that they fail or that the Revenue takes a closer look as it feels there might be some additional tax owing ......

Having a solicitor draw it up means they will be familiar with all the pitfalls and to how to avoid them which you will not know. They will also be able to make suggestions as to minimising any IHT liability as you say your father is not short of a penny.

Why is it that your father wants his Estate to sue a previous employer after his death which will involve instructing solicitiors and yet refuses to have a solicitor draw up his Will ? Bizarre ............. Is he thinking straight? Is he trying to make your life hard once he has gone?

A solicitor can draw up the Will but they needn't be the sole or a named Executor. If his wishes are straight forward then a trust worthy, thorough and methodical lay person is more than capable of Executing the Will. They can seek legal advice if they subsequently feel the need, but your father will have passed away at this stage so he will be none the wiser.

I would strongly urge him to instruct a solicitor to draw up his Will. The solicitor will then be acting for him and only him. He will be able to speak with him privately and confidentially to ensure that his wishes are indeed HIS wishes and how they can be best met. A letter of explanation to accompany the Will can be a help although this does not take the place of the Will. Why not get several quotes if cost is the reason for his stubbornness? Sure you as a family can discuss the content of his Will prior to him getting a solicitor to draw it up. If a solicitor mucks the Will up you can sue them. If you write a DIY Will or if your father writes his own and it's invalid you have no come back.

If your father gets his way and you or one of your siblings writes his Will and it goes tits up then it will be one almighty mess and you WILL need the help of a solicitor for each beneficiary unhappy with what they haven't been left. Of course your father will have died so he will be out of it.

Has your father previously made a Will or remarried?

What do your siblings think? If you are all in agreement why not call a family meeting and "make him" use a solicitor hence my advice above of obtaining several names of solicitors and quotes ........... Avoid solicitors that want a charging clause for them amounting to a percentage of the testator's Estate.

Once your father's Will is completed best to have it kept at the solicitors.

DO NOT USE BANKS' WILL WRITING SERVICES!!!! Would you go swimming with Jaws in the water?! I thought not.

Good luck. I hope your father's remaining time is as happy as it can be given the circumstances. Get the WILL sorted and enjoy your time with each other. Who knows he may live for another 20 years!

spen666

Just to emphasise one point made by Dilemna.

I (even though I am a lawyer) would not advise appointing the lawyer as an executor.

Appoint the beneficiaries as executors. If they need to instruct a lawyer, they are in control of costs. If a lawyer is executor, he is effectively instructing himself and can charge what he wants. The same applies to all professional executors

mrushton

On a sour note remember that in-laws ie brother/sister in law can exert undue influence. I've seen a couple of incidents where people have had houses extended,bought new cars etc on the strength of an inheritance and this was particularly notable in a couple where the sister-in-law was the dominant partner. There are three of you who stand to be beneficiaries, just make sure there are no 'sleeping partners' in there. A colleague of mine whose mother had an estate of £2 million + was told by his sister-in-law he needn't visit as it would only 'confuse' the old lady. Needless to say he went to see her and found that pressure was being applied for her to change the will - guess who in favour of? There are always black sides to these affairs and yours won't be one of them but your father has worked hard to provide for his 3 children and wants you all to benefit equally.

ricardo666

Sorry to hear the sad news.

I am thinking of having a will drawn up for myself, incase of some unfortunate accident, with one of the loons on the roads.

And thought this is a maybe a idea
http://www.willaid.org.uk/home

pneumatic

I agree with Spen about the banks. Tread carefully there.

When my father died and I had to write all the letters, the first organisation to reply was his Bank, who kindly offered to support me as the Executor by providing a probate service. How thoughtful!

The fee? Five percent of the Estate. Given that we were talking his life savings, a house in the South of England and the rest, that was going to work out at tens of thousands of pounds for an administrative task that I did myself for nothing.

As for wills, I know you can buy templates from High St stationers and you can probably get them online, too. Don't know how robust that route will be in your circumstances, though.

Most importantly, very sorry to hear the news and I hope that your family have the chance of some high quality time together before the inevitable happens. We did, and I've always been grateful for that.

plowmar

Dilemna writes

DO NOT USE BANKS' WILL WRITING SERVICES!!!! Would you go swimming with Jaws in the water?! I thought not.

But doesn't say why. I guess costs.

As I said previously you do not have to have the bank as exor. and when I was with the banking sector the will writing service cost the same as a lawyer. Things may have changed of course and it may now be a condition of writing the will.

The bank I was in would write it free if they were exor but I always advised customers not to do that and pay for the writing, unless the will was to be complicated, the estate large or if the testator was young. Exors do die as well.

dilemna

plowmar wrote:

Dilemna writes

DO NOT USE BANKS' WILL WRITING SERVICES!!!! Would you go swimming with Jaws in the water?! I thought not.

But doesn't say why. I guess costs.

As I said previously you do not have to have the bank as exor. and when I was with the banking sector the will writing service cost the same as a lawyer. Things may have changed of course and it may now be a condition of writing the will.

The bank I was in would write it free if they were exor but I always advised customers not to do that and pay for the writing, unless the will was to be complicated, the estate large or if the testator was young. Exors do die as well.

If the standard of a bank's Will writing service had as many grammatical errors as your post, you having worked in the banking sector, then I would be very worried for any person being hood winked into using them.

You don't need to be Einstein to work out that Banks only care about their own interests as they spend each day working out how they can shaft customers and make money for themselves. I believe they try to write in onerous charging clauses in a Will which are based on a significant percentage of the value of a Testator's Estate. They are crooks and sharks.

shouldbeinbed

So sorry to hear your news, I'd agree with the others and really push for a solicitor to do it.

but if not then you need a Plan B & C

you mention he wants the PM results passed to his Union Solicitors, could you try and see if he'd be more amenable to these guys drawing a will up than Joe Bloke on the high street, or look at his union benefits on their website, they might offer a will writing service (still a solicitor but 'hidden' behind his union banner)

alternately could he dictate his will or be video'd doing so, distressing to see maybe, after he's gone and I doubt it would have much / if any legal oomph/proof against coercion but he would at least be issuing his instructions in his own words to his family and the executor(s).

I did my dads (with mum) and grandma's (on my own) executoring in quick succession just using a solicitor as and when needed. it was easy enough as long as you keep organised I forget the legal cost but it wasn't prohibitive and was a godsend for the officialdom bits of the process.

it took about 6 months end to end and the biggest aggro was from my Bro, impatient for his share. Keep them informed but expect that money brings out the worse side of people.

good luck with it and above all don't let this overshadow the time left that you all have with him.

tailwindhome

My father passed away in April this year.

He asked me to act as executor of the will and my wife (whose is a solicitor) gave him the basic wording he needed to compile his will. His affairs were as straightforward as they could possibly be, heartbreaking so to be honest.

Based on my experiences I would definitely recommend a solicitor to write the will.

I would consider using a solicitor to help you execute the will. There is potentially a lot of work involved if the estate is in any way complex. Even in our case it took a couple of months to get my head round the fact my father was gone let alone start digging through all his paperwork. You may want to just pay the fee and hand the task over to someone else.

Good luck

tailwindhome

shouldbeinbed wrote:

it took about 6 months end to end and the biggest aggro was from my Bro, impatient for his share. Keep them informed but expect that money brings out the worse side of people.

This is good advice

Relatives think wills are handled just like on Eastenders. It takes time.

spen666

shouldbeinbed wrote:

....

alternately could he dictate his will or be video'd doing so, distressing to see maybe, after he's gone and I doubt it would have much / if any legal oomph/proof against coercion but he would at least be issuing his instructions in his own words to his family and the executor(s).
....

This would be a pointless waste of time and expense as it is not valid as :-
a) its not in writing
b) its not signed by the testator
c) testator's signature not witnessed by 2 independent witnesses

That's not even considering other problems

dag_on_a_bike

With absolute respect to Spenn666 and Rodgers73 who are more able to comment, as a lawyer (but without wills/probate expertise) I fully concur that you should get the will drawn up professionally to avoid potential problems later.

However, Adamort, I note that your location is stated as Netherlands. Is that the same for your father? If so, are there different laws to those in the UK that apply?

Never expect all to be problem free. My brother, 'nice' chap that he was, was qualified as a legal executive. Worked specialising in wills and probate and subsequently as an independent will writer. When his wife's parents died, sadly within 2 weeks of each other, he contested their will. No doubt he had his reasons but they were undoubtedly self-centred.

I hope you can sort this for your father in a way that he is happy with, at what must be a traumatic and sad time for all.

Aggieboy

DAG on a bike wrote:

With absolute respect to Spenn666 and Rodgers73 who are more able to comment, as a lawyer (but without wills/probate expertise) I fully concur that you should get the will drawn up professionally to avoid potential problems later.

However, Adamort, I note that your location is stated as Netherlands. Is that the same for your father? If so, are there different laws to those in the UK that apply?

Never expect all to be problem free. My brother, 'nice' chap that he was, was qualified as a legal executive. Worked specialising in wills and probate and subsequently as an independent will writer. When his wife's parents died, sadly within 2 weeks of each other, he contested their will. No doubt he had his reasons but they were undoubtedly self-centred.

I hope you can sort this for your father in a way that he is happy with, at what must be a traumatic and sad time for all.

See below

ademort wrote:

Thanks for your replys. I,m coming to the UK on Wednesday so will have a chat with my Dad face to face.
Ademort

dag_on_a_bike

Aggieboy wrote:

DAG on a bike wrote:

With absolute respect to Spenn666 and Rodgers73 who are more able to comment, as a lawyer (but without wills/probate expertise) I fully concur that you should get the will drawn up professionally to avoid potential problems later.

However, Adamort, I note that your location is stated as Netherlands. Is that the same for your father? If so, are there different laws to those in the UK that apply?

Never expect all to be problem free. My brother, 'nice' chap that he was, was qualified as a legal executive. Worked specialising in wills and probate and subsequently as an independent will writer. When his wife's parents died, sadly within 2 weeks of each other, he contested their will. No doubt he had his reasons but they were undoubtedly self-centred.

I hope you can sort this for your father in a way that he is happy with, at what must be a traumatic and sad time for all.

See below

ademort wrote:

Thanks for your replys. I,m coming to the UK on Wednesday so will have a chat with my Dad face to face.
Ademort

Oops, missed that.