Bike Manufacturers - Pecking order?

richardfj
richardfj Posts: 91
edited October 2010 in The bottom bracket
As with most people I have a fair idea of where certain marques sit within the car industry in terms of premium, aspirational and volume markets

Is this the same with bike manufacturers??..what is the pecking order and how easy/difficult would it be to compare them to the car industry..

For Example

Preimum Brands Cars - Audi, BMW & Mercedes
Premium Brands Bikes - Colnago, Pinnarello....???

Aspirational Volume Cars - Volkswagen, Honda
Aspirational Volume Bikes - Cannondale, Bianchi, Felt...???

Volume Cars - Ford, Vauxhall
Volume Bikes - Specialized, Giant, Trek...???

Feel free to correct me if I've made any biking faux pars, add others or just list out the order of bike manufacturers in terms of aspirational brand values...
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Comments

  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    every single one of those names (both car and bike) is a volume manufacturer...
  • Chip \'oyler
    Chip \'oyler Posts: 2,323
    softlad wrote:
    every single one of those names (both car and bike) is a volume manufacturer...

    +1
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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Yes, because of what you've all said...
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Litespeed, top of bike list.

    Vauxhall, best car 'cos I've now got 2 Vauxhalls. Dubble fun. :wink:
  • Stewie Griffin
    Stewie Griffin Posts: 4,330
    Premium Brands Cars - Audi, BMW & Mercedes. Er no.

    Aspirational Volume Cars - Volkswagen, Honda. I can aspire to a lot more than a VW or a honda thanks.

    Lets not start putting bikes on a list, forum friends will end up offering each other out :lol:
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Stewie Griffin wrote:
    Premium Brands Cars - Audi, BMW & Mercedes. Er no.

    Aspirational Volume Cars - Volkswagen, Honda. I can aspire to a lot more than a VW or a honda thanks.

    Lets not start putting bikes on a list, forum friends will end up offering each other out :lol:

    Oi, did you spill my energy drink ? :D
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    They all make some utterly fantastic bikes and some very mediocre ones. For some reason it's the components that will get people arguing.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    johnfinch wrote:
    They all make some utterly fantastic bikes and some very mediocre ones. For some reason it's the components that will get people arguing.

    It's because that's more binary.

    It still largley falls into campagnolo vs the rest.
    _
  • richardfj
    richardfj Posts: 91
    Okay so it's a duff thread...never mind

    Just to correct you though:-

    Audi, BMW & Mercedes are classed (certainly within the car industry itself) as premium brands representing between 3% - 5% (each) of the total market share...although over the past 12 months have become

    Volkswagen is technically a volume car maker with a market share of about 8%-9%, however no one at Volkswagen considers itself as a volume player (rightly or wrongly) and is classed as one of the most aspirational brands in the motor trade in addition to the ones above...you pay a premium to own one over a traditional 'volume' maker...

    Ford and Vauxhall are volume players and have market shares of circa 17% and 13% but that represents some 200k and 150k cars repectively..

    Clearly above the premium brands you have the likes of Ferrari, Porsche, Bentley etc but these are classed as Prestige...maybe I should have included them..

    My apologies for a duff thread :oops: ...I'll keep trying....your probably right about the bike makers...I'm still trying to work out which ones are generally considered the best (looks like I need to buy a Litespeed then!) :lol:
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Custom Serotta, Parlee, Crumpton, Vanilla, Richard Sachs are at the top of the tree in my opinion... (Prestige)
  • richardfj
    richardfj Posts: 91
    Thanks NapD - I've never heard of any of them such is my lack of knowledge, shame on me...I'm googling as we speak!
  • richardfj
    richardfj Posts: 91
    I'm feeling quite enlightened now, thanks...

    some beautifull bikes there......those bikes ooze quality and have a different look to the normal carbon stuff from the mainstream...If i passed them previously i would have thought they'd come from the 70's...now I know better....thanks again

    ps I'm still buying a Cannondale mind... :wink:
  • LazyBoycp
    LazyBoycp Posts: 320
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Custom Serotta, Parlee, Crumpton, Vanilla, Richard Sachs are at the top of the tree in my opinion... (Prestige)

    Pah, I'll see your Serotta and raise you a Baum. :) Mmmm, Baum... Very tempted to get one.

    Independent Fabrication & Seven also do nice 'Prestige' bikes.
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    richardfj wrote:
    If i passed them previously i would have thought they'd come from the 70's...

    that's cos most of them probably do - there's nothing 'prestige' about paying over the odds for a ride which you can get from one of the 'volume' builders for half the price.

    You're paying an inflated price for rarity - not for a better bike...
  • Chip \'oyler
    Chip \'oyler Posts: 2,323
    softlad wrote:
    richardfj wrote:
    If i passed them previously i would have thought they'd come from the 70's...

    that's cos most of them probably do - there's nothing 'prestige' about paying over the odds for a ride which you can get from one of the 'volume' builders for half the price.

    You're paying an inflated price for rarity - not for a better bike...

    You could say the same about cars

    BTW have you ridden any of the 'prestige' bikes mentioned? I suspect you have seeing as you know for definite that they ride the same as the 'volume' bikes
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  • sloboy
    sloboy Posts: 1,139
    I've found out a bit about prestige cars this year - had a go in a Porsche Cayman, Aston v8 Vantage. Very nice.

    And a Ferrari 458. Oh my goodness. Utterly different and utterly gobsmacking. So just goes to show that extra 80-90k over the Aston is money well spent ! :wink:

    Just need to find someone with a Zonda or a Veyron now.
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    Chip \'oyler wrote:

    You could say the same about cars

    You could, indeed. Obviously, performance costs money whichever way you look at it - but the more you spend, the more marginal the gains become.
    Chip \'oyler wrote:
    BTW have you ridden any of the 'prestige' bikes mentioned? I suspect you have seeing as you know for definite that they ride the same as the 'volume' bikes

    I've ridden some over the years - but not all, by any means. In my experience, most of the gains come from the psychological advantage of having a posh name on the downtube. There is something very attractive about a titanium-lugged, carbon tubed Serotta - but in the real world it's probably no better than any other high end frame from one of the volume manufacturers.

    But if you 'defnintely' know different, I'm happy to be corrected....
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    You can't really compare cars and bikes, because with bikes the engine will always be the same. Its like you drive a Golf, and then buy a Ferrari but you have to stick the Golf's engine in it. There wouldn't really be much point would there, other than it looks nice? It might be worth buying a BMW, perhaps, but beyond that the engine isn't going to be good enough to get the benefits out of the car. Of course if you happen to own a Golf GTi, it might be worth upgrading to a better car - maybe an M3. But there are always going to be limits, unless you are able to really tune that engine. Do you see what I'm saying? No, thought not, I'll get me coat...
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  • redrobbo
    redrobbo Posts: 727
    With bikes it's the rider who matters not the machine.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    redrobbo wrote:
    With bikes it's the rider who matters not the machine.

    No way!
  • APIII
    APIII Posts: 2,010
    The 'desirability' of prestige brands like Vanilla, Pegoretti, etc, are really due to them being very small companies, often controlled by one person, passionate about bikes, the history of bikes, aesthetics, etc. and a lot of cyclists hoover this stuff up, like George Michael and a bag of coke. It becomes more about the ethos of the brand than any ride characteristics of the bikes themselves. Nothing wrong with that mind. It's good to have frame builders interested in something other than frame weight and bottom bracket stiffness!
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    APIII wrote:
    The 'desirability' of prestige brands like Vanilla, Pegoretti, etc, are really due to them being very small companies, often controlled by one person, passionate about bikes, the history of bikes, aesthetics, etc. and a lot of cyclists hoover this stuff up, like George Michael and a bag of coke. It becomes more about the ethos of the brand than any ride characteristics of the bikes themselves. Nothing wrong with that mind. It's good to have frame builders interested in something other than frame weight and bottom bracket stiffness!

    The same can be said of many 'high end' items...
  • APIII
    APIII Posts: 2,010
    NapoleonD wrote:
    APIII wrote:
    The 'desirability' of prestige brands like Vanilla, Pegoretti, etc, are really due to them being very small companies, often controlled by one person, passionate about bikes, the history of bikes, aesthetics, etc. and a lot of cyclists hoover this stuff up, like George Michael and a bag of coke. It becomes more about the ethos of the brand than any ride characteristics of the bikes themselves. Nothing wrong with that mind. It's good to have frame builders interested in something other than frame weight and bottom bracket stiffness!

    The same can be said of many 'high end' items...

    Yeah, probably, but the OPwas talking about cars. Ferrari, Porsche,etc are prestige but are about performance as much as anything else (even if they spend their life in Chelsea)
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Heh heh, or Alderley Edge if you live up near me!
  • Chip \'oyler
    Chip \'oyler Posts: 2,323
    APIII wrote:
    The 'desirability' of prestige brands like Vanilla, Pegoretti, etc, are really due to them being very small companies, often controlled by one person, passionate about bikes, the history of bikes, aesthetics, etc. and a lot of cyclists hoover this stuff up, like George Michael and a bag of coke. It becomes more about the ethos of the brand than any ride characteristics of the bikes themselves. Nothing wrong with that mind. It's good to have frame builders interested in something other than frame weight and bottom bracket stiffness!

    No. IMO The reason some of the 'prestige' brands ride better for people is because they are small concerns, and can build frame's to the customer's requirements (ride quality, made to measure, custom paintjobs etc) which means that their bikes will always ride better for that particular rider than an off the peg volume frame would ever do. it's this handmade bespoke aspect that makes these builder's bikes expensive and hence 'desirable'.

    It's a bit like buying a bespoke suit from Savile Row and buying a nice off the peg suit from M&S. The M&S will look nice on, but would never fit or look the same as the Savile Row version.
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  • schweiz
    schweiz Posts: 1,644
    how does a custom paint job make a bike ride better?!
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  • Gazzaputt
    Gazzaputt Posts: 3,227
    You do find that more boutique makes do not have the R&R of the volume builders.

    I personally have not been able to much of a difference between any carbon frame over £1.5k
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    schweiz wrote:
    how does a custom paint job make a bike ride better?!

    That's a little taken out of context... Custom paint jobs improve pride of ownership. If you ride a bike you are proud of you seem to enjoy riding it more. I know I do...
  • APIII
    APIII Posts: 2,010
    You can get a custom geo, custom painted frame from someone like Brian Rourke for a lot less, it just doesn't have the cache of the aforementioned boutique brands. So, I still think it's about buying into the ethos rather than any particular tangible benefit.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    APIII wrote:
    You can get a custom geo, custom painted frame from someone like Brian Rourke for a lot less, it just doesn't have the cache of the aforementioned boutique brands. So, I still think it's about buying into the ethos rather than any particular tangible benefit.

    Quite possibly. But again, pride of ownership can increase riding enjoyment...

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