USADA about to rip US domestic cycling a new one
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I've been away but can agree with that, phew what a relief.Blazing Saddles wrote:Moray Gub wrote:I wonder lets speculate here............ what about someone who lets just say goes to great lenghts to deny their doping even duping people to contribute to an innocent fund then after the swindle they suddenly fess up..............now if that ever happened would this person be a credible witness ?
When I began to read this, I thought: Wtf? Moray has done a complete "U" turn...........right up until his final 3 words.
Now what was it. ???
Quote from one veteran of the domestic peloton "Here in the U.S. it's sort of the Wild West."
Go - Novitsky-Go, and from little acorns grow !!!!!Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
iainf72 wrote:sherer wrote:
He says he is anti doping but then did he reveal who his clients were from his website ? So far he hasn't
He has. To the USADA, that's where these cases are coming from.
ah ok didn't know that. Thought he had kept the client list quiet.
Thats good news but as well all know as soon as one shop closes another one opens up.0 -
I know others will have read this thread on the CN forums, but, surely there will be a combined fall-out, from both of these initiations:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to- ... _headlines
No "big name" riders to be allowed to compete in national events. The UCI recinds it's "U" turn that gave riders like Lance, Levi and CH access to Gila, Utah etc.
Can they survive?
Tough times ahead for grass roots US racing."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Kléber wrote:I can't work out what to make of Papp, he tries to be open about things but wherever there's money to be made by doping, up he pops, again and again.
As far as I'm concerned Papp is one of the biggest scumbags in cycling.
First he dopes. And gets caught.
Then he presents himself as a reformed character, giving talks about the evils of doping.
But while he's doing this he's dealing drugs to nearly 200 people.
And since he's been caught, he's been presenting himself as some sort of whistleblower. Giving up his client list (probably with evidence he collected to cover his back if it all went pear shaped), perhaps destroying domestic US cycling, in an attempt to stay out of prison.
He's a drug dealer who's too weak to bide by the drug dealer's code (ie no grassing).
At every turn, he's done what is most beneficial for Joe Papp, nothing else.
And he posts on the cyclingnews forum, where those idiots see him as a hero trying to make a difference, without acknowledging that he was a major part of the problem.
I hope he does at least two years in the big house.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:Kléber wrote:I can't work out what to make of Papp, he tries to be open about things but wherever there's money to be made by doping, up he pops, again and again.
As far as I'm concerned Papp is one of the biggest scumbags in cycling.
First he dopes. And gets caught.
Then he presents himself as a reformed character, giving talks about the evils of doping.
But while he's doing this he's dealing drugs to nearly 200 people.
And since he's been caught, he's been presenting himself as some sort of whistleblower. Giving up his client list (probably with evidence he collected to cover his back if it all went pear shaped), perhaps destroying domestic US cycling, in an attempt to stay out of prison.
He's a drug dealer who's too weak to bide by the drug dealer's code (ie no grassing).
At every turn, he's done what is most beneficial for Joe Papp, nothing else.
And he posts on the cyclingnews forum, where those idiots see him as a hero trying to make a difference, without acknowledging that he was a major part of the problem.
I hope he does at least two years in the big house.
I also hope this papp guy gets sent down for 5 years minimum0 -
While Papp's motivation may very well be a case of trying to save his own a*s, it
seems to me that if he names other cheats, who get taken out of this sport, the end result is beneficial.
Not sure I follow why some seem to prefer a no ratting policy.
Might as well come out and say Omerta should be upheld."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:While Papp's motivation may very well be a case of trying to save his own a*s, it
seems to me that if he names other cheats, who get taken out of this sport, the end result is beneficial.
Not sure I follow why some seem to prefer a no ratting policy.
Might as well come out and say Omerta should be upheld.
Can I cut this out and keep it for the next time someone moans about "only small fry" being caught?Le Blaireau (1)0 -
DaveyL wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:While Papp's motivation may very well be a case of trying to save his own a*s, it
seems to me that if he names other cheats, who get taken out of this sport, the end result is beneficial.
Not sure I follow why some seem to prefer a no ratting policy.
Might as well come out and say Omerta should be upheld.
Can I cut this out and keep it for the next time someone moans about "only small fry" being caught?
Yes, you can cut it out. :P "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I've stored it with "the graph"...Le Blaireau (1)0
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Blazing Saddles wrote:While Papp's motivation may very well be a case of trying to save his own a*s, it
seems to me that if he names other cheats, who get taken out of this sport, the end result is beneficial.
Not sure I follow why some seem to prefer a no ratting policy.
Might as well come out and say Omerta should be upheld.
Any way cheats get caught is good, although I bet no-one you or I have heard of gets busted through this.
My issue is with Papp and his followers. He's only doing this because it's the only option left to him, not because of any conversion.
I know you're a regular on the Cycling News forum. On there he seems (to me any way) to present himself as some sort of crusader for the 'truth'. And his acolytes on there, who will point the finger at any cyclist they please with no evidence, see him as some sort of 'omerta' breaking hero because he tells them what they want to hear. Hypocrites, the lot of them.
He's a self-interested scumbag. Nothing more.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:While Papp's motivation may very well be a case of trying to save his own a*s, it
seems to me that if he names other cheats, who get taken out of this sport, the end result is beneficial.
Not sure I follow why some seem to prefer a no ratting policy.
Might as well come out and say Omerta should be upheld.
you sound like someone who could be a bit of a grass the way you're talking up Papp. If papp didn't entrap by offering stuff then less people would dope perhaps. Papp in the can for a few years I hope0 -
RichN95 wrote:As far as I'm concerned Papp is one of the biggest scumbags in cycling... I hope he does at least two years in the big house.
There seems to be a lot of hate on here for a guy who is doing a lot to help clean up American cycling. Perhaps the haters would have been happier if he had kept to the 'omerta'...Dave_1 wrote:I also hope this papp guy gets sent down for 5 years minimum0 -
BikingBernie wrote:RichN95 wrote:As far as I'm concerned Papp is one of the biggest scumbags in cycling... I hope he does at least two years in the big house.
There seems to be a lot of hate on here for a guy who is doing a lot to help clean up American cycling. Perhaps the haters would have been happier if he had kept to the 'omerta'...Dave_1 wrote:I also hope this papp guy gets sent down for 5 years minimum
to be in the omerta you'd have to have been half decent on a bike, respected, team up with those at the top-none of which this nobody ever achieved. His only claim to fame is for being a drug dealer! You another grasser up of people you don't like?0 -
So, may I take it that you know the names of all those who were his 'customers' and that non of these were professional riders? In any case following your 'logic' (I use the word loosely) those involved in covering up doping at anything other than the highest level are not a part of cycling's doping omerta. In reality it affects riders, team managers, doctors and doping specialists at all levels of the 'sport'.Dave_1 wrote:to be in the omerta you'd have to have been half decent on a bike, respected, team up with those at the top-none of which this nobody ever achieved. His only claim to fame is for being a drug dealer!0 -
Dave_1 wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:While Papp's motivation may very well be a case of trying to save his own a*s, it
seems to me that if he names other cheats, who get taken out of this sport, the end result is beneficial.
Not sure I follow why some seem to prefer a no ratting policy.
Might as well come out and say Omerta should be upheld.
you sound like someone who could be a bit of a grass the way you're talking up Papp. If papp didn't entrap by offering stuff then less people would dope perhaps. Papp in the can for a few years I hope
Ah well.
I'll let those who follow the forum, read this thread and our respective posts make up their own minds as to what you sound like."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:RichN95 wrote:As far as I'm concerned Papp is one of the biggest scumbags in cycling... I hope he does at least two years in the big house.
There seems to be a lot of hate on here for a guy who is doing a lot to help clean up American cycling. Perhaps the haters would have been happier if he had kept to the 'omerta'...Dave_1 wrote:I also hope this papp guy gets sent down for 5 years minimum
You hate Armstrong because he is a doper. But Papp was a doper and a dealer to nearly 200 people (and he has no medical background to guide him). He was speaking out about doping while he was a dealer. That makes him worse in my book. Is it because he wasn't successful at it that means he gets a free pass in yours?
He's breaking the so-called 'omerta' because he's looking at time in jail and it's the only option left open to him. If he was the great humanitarian and crusader that some like paint him as, then he would have been clean from the get-go.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:He's breaking the so-called 'omerta' because he's looking at time in jail and it's the only option left open to him. If he was the great humanitarian and crusader that some like paint him as, then he would have been clean from the get-go.
It's also very disappointing that it will be the very minor pro's on small teams, or on clean teams which don't support doping who ended up looking for advice on internet forums and dodgy web shops are the ones getting caught rather than the more organised teams/people with their own pet doctors.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
I think Papp is just looking after number one too. If I was going down for drug dealing i'm sue I would want to make it look like I had turned over a new leaf.
Papp only released his client list when he had to and you have to wonder how many other big names went direct with cash payments to him that he hasn't revealed.0 -
jibberjim wrote:RichN95 wrote:He's breaking the so-called 'omerta' because he's looking at time in jail and it's the only option left open to him. If he was the great humanitarian and crusader that some like paint him as, then he would have been clean from the get-go.
It's also very disappointing that it will be the very minor pro's on small teams, or on clean teams which don't support doping who ended up looking for advice on internet forums and dodgy web shops are the ones getting caught rather than the more organised teams/people with their own pet doctors.
At the same time, Papp and his customers should be eligible for the dopers' equivalent of the Darwin Awards. The mind boggles at the naivety of people undertaking such activity via a public-facing retail website, thus ensuring their involvement and actions were indelibly recorded for all time. You couldn't make this stuff up.
Anyway, whatever Joe Papp's motives for now cooperating, I'm pleased that he is doing so (not that he will have any choice, I imagine, considering the electronic records of everything). He's obviously no hero, and I don't see that anyone is presenting his as such. And I'd like to see everyone who gets caught to "grass" on everyone else who they know is involved. Tear the whole thing down, if necessary, if that's what's required to expose the reality and enable serious change to occur.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
So, may I take it that you know the names of all those who were his 'customers' and that non of these were professional riders? In any case following your 'logic' (I use the word loosely) those involved in covering up doping at anything other than the highest level are not a part of cycling's doping omerta. In reality it affects riders, team managers, doctors and doping specialists at all levels of the 'sport'.Dave_1 wrote:to be in the omerta you'd have to have been half decent on a bike, respected, team up with those at the top-none of which this nobody ever achieved. His only claim to fame is for being a drug dealer!
yes, you lost on out on a pro career in cycling you joke!0 -
rdt wrote:jibberjim wrote:RichN95 wrote:He's breaking the so-called 'omerta' because he's looking at time in jail and it's the only option left open to him. If he was the great humanitarian and crusader that some like paint him as, then he would have been clean from the get-go.
It's also very disappointing that it will be the very minor pro's on small teams, or on clean teams which don't support doping who ended up looking for advice on internet forums and dodgy web shops are the ones getting caught rather than the more organised teams/people with their own pet doctors.
At the same time, Papp and his customers should be eligible for the dopers' equivalent of the Darwin Awards. The mind boggles at the naivety of people undertaking such activity via a public-facing retail website, thus ensuring their involvement and actions were indelibly recorded for all time. You couldn't make this stuff up.
Anyway, whatever Joe Papp's motives for now cooperating, I'm pleased that he is doing so (not that he will have any choice, I imagine, considering the electronic records of everything). He's obviously no hero, and I don't see that anyone is presenting his as such. And I'd like to see everyone who gets caught to "grass" on everyone else who they know is involved. Tear the whole thing down, if necessary, if that's what's required to expose the reality and enable serious change to occur.
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Dave_1 wrote:BikingBernie wrote:
So, may I take it that you know the names of all those who were his 'customers' and that non of these were professional riders? In any case following your 'logic' (I use the word loosely) those involved in covering up doping at anything other than the highest level are not a part of cycling's doping omerta. In reality it affects riders, team managers, doctors and doping specialists at all levels of the 'sport'.Dave_1 wrote:to be in the omerta you'd have to have been half decent on a bike, respected, team up with those at the top-none of which this nobody ever achieved. His only claim to fame is for being a drug dealer!
yes, you lost on out on a pro career in cycling you joke!
Ouch... there ares ome very touchy comments going around at the moment. Straight question: Are you against dopers 'grassing' on fellow dopers Dave?0 -
Take no notice of Dave, like many Lance fanboys and apologists for doping he tends to get nasty when cornered.ratsbeyfus wrote:
Ouch... there ares ome very touchy comments going around at the moment. Straight question: Are you against dopers 'grassing' on fellow dopers Dave?Dave_1 wrote:
yes, you lost on out on a pro career in cycling you joke!BikingBernie wrote:So, may I take it that you know the names of all those who were his 'customers' and that non of these were professional riders? In any case following your 'logic' (I use the word loosely) those involved in covering up doping at anything other than the highest level are not a part of cycling's doping omerta. In reality it affects riders, team managers, doctors and doping specialists at all levels of the 'sport'.
Perhaps his real 'problem' is that he never made the grade in bike racing and finds it more comforting to believe that he was 'beaten by better men' than to consider the fact that doping might have played a role.
Anyhow Dave, can you give us those names you obviously have access to?0 -
The lack of self awareness on this thread is really something to behold.
I clearly need to post another milf-y picture.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
