Killed a cyclist? Sorry, I fainted...

CiB

It strikes me that as the full case was heard in a court of law and a verdict was reached based on the full evidence which found the driver not guilty, then she in all probablity [i.e. not enough to be 'beyond reasonable doubt' did faint, hence the outcome.

Two things spring to mind. If she'd killed any other road user other than a cyclist we wouldn't be having this discussion on here, and that anyone who does damaage one of our beloved faultless brethren by hitting them with a car had better not expect much in the way of evidence-based supportive postings on an internet message board like this.

String her up anyway. Clearly a posh bird with a rich old man, she won't have to worry*. She probably deserves it.

:arrow:

*Yes. It was The Eagles that sung it.

Gazzaputt

Hmm did she really blackout? How can it be disproved?

MonkeyMonster

CiB wrote:

It strikes me that as the full case was heard in a court of law and a verdict was reached based on the full evidence which found the driver not guilty, then she in all probablity [i.e. not enough to be 'beyond reasonable doubt' did faint, hence the outcome.

Two things spring to mind. If she'd killed any other road user other than a cyclist we wouldn't be having this discussion on here, and that anyone who does damaage one of our beloved faultless brethren by hitting them with a car had better not expect much in the way of evidence-based supportive postings on an internet message board like this.

String her up anyway. Clearly a posh bird with a rich old man, she won't have to worry*. She probably deserves it.

:arrow:

*Yes. It was The Eagles that sung it.

I cannot believe you've tried to inject some clear and normal thinking in here... What do you take us bandwagonning types for?

+1 though

CiB

MonkeyMonster wrote:

I cannot believe you've tried to inject some clear and normal thinking in here... What do you take us bandwagonning types for?

+1 though

In my defence, I did say string her up.

EKE_38BPM

I've just had a search on Wikipedia for blood substitutes and it appears biscuits and cordial is a recognised substitute. Seems it started off in WWII in North Africa and became a recognised part of battlefield first aid.

OK, a legal hearing has come to the conclusion that she randomly fainted so, unless some other evidence comes to light, we'll have to accept it. I just find it bloody scary that people randomly faint. This could have been any one of us cycling along and being mown down by a car.

Or Neil Armstrong walking on the moon.
Or the pilot taking us on our holidays.
Or an athlete on the world stage.

There again, its not just fainting that comes out of the blue. A friend's brother complained of a headache and died 30 minutes later of an anurism (sp?).

mtb-idle

CiB wrote:

It strikes me that as the full case was heard in a court of law and a verdict was reached based on the full evidence which found the driver not guilty, then she in all probablity [i.e. not enough to be 'beyond reasonable doubt' did faint, hence the outcome.

Do you believe that everyone that walks free of a court didn't actually do it e.g. Al Capone was tried many times for general ganster type stuff but onyl got put away for tax evasion? Or that everyone that is put away did do it? e.g. the Birmingham four or was it the Guildford six?

CiB wrote:

Two things spring to mind. If she'd killed any other road user other than a cyclist we wouldn't be having this discussion on here, and that anyone who does damage one of our beloved faultless brethren by hitting them with a car had better not expect much in the way of evidence-based supportive postings on an internet message board like this.

Absolutely, that's what the internet is for isn't it?

As well as the obvious cycling related story i think the interest is the novelty of the defence.

Would we feel the same if she had fallen asleep at the wheel? Apparently being pregnant or recently pregnant can make you quite tired too.

EKE_38BPM

Women are alway harping on about how hard/tiring/painful pregnancy/childbirth is.

It can't be that bad, they just need to MTFU!

zanes

CiB wrote:

It strikes me that as the full case was heard in a court of law and a verdict was reached based on the full evidence which found the driver not guilty, then she in all probablity [i.e. not enough to be 'beyond reasonable doubt' did faint, hence the outcome.

Two things spring to mind. If she'd killed any other road user other than a cyclist we wouldn't be having this discussion on here, and that anyone who does damaage one of our beloved faultless brethren by hitting them with a car had better not expect much in the way of evidence-based supportive postings on an internet message board like this.

+A lot.

emdeef

Perhaps we should just ban Range Rovers

zanes

emdeef wrote:

Perhaps we should just ban Range Rovers

Ban cyclists "for their own good"?

MrChuck

MTB-Idle wrote:

Do you believe that everyone that walks free of a court didn't actually do it e.g. Al Capone was tried many times for general ganster type stuff but onyl got put away for tax evasion? Or that everyone that is put away did do it? e.g. the Birmingham four or was it the Guildford six?

Probably nobody thinks that. But do you believe that everyone that walks free of a court actually did do it? Or that everyone that is put away didn't do it?

Cynicism is all well and good but the supposition that she's gamed the system and 'got away with it' just doesn't stack up for me given the information we have.

greg66_tri_v2.0

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Women are alway harping on about how hard/tiring/painful pregnancy/childbirth is.

It can't be that bad, they just need to MTFU!

It's well known that it's second on the League O' Pain only to banging your shin really badly.

dennisn

CiB wrote:

Two things spring to mind. If she'd killed any other road user other than a cyclist we wouldn't be having this discussion on here, and that anyone who does damaage one of our beloved faultless brethren by hitting them with a car had better not expect much in the way of evidence-based supportive postings on an internet message board like this.

Have been thinking that myself. I like the "faultless brethren" thing.
Sad to hear that people get killed in accidents, but this being a not so perfect world
you've got to take your chances, and if God decides to call you home, well,
I guess you're going home.

Gazzaputt

emdeef wrote:

Perhaps we should just ban Range Rovers

The most sensible suggestion I have read on this forum in sometime.

TommyEss

EKE_38BPM wrote:

There again, its not just fainting that comes out of the blue. A friend's brother complained of a headache and died 30 minutes later of an anurism (sp?).

An aneurism will often cause a headache - but not all headaches are aneurisms.

Anectdotally, most headaches are found at the front of our heads, behind the eyes etc.

Should you ever notice a headache in the back of your head, get yourself to an emergency department quick-time and tell them you have an occipital headache.

legin

any case has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt.she had given an account and that was backed by medical evidence that she could have fainted and the fact that there didnt apear to be any witnesses who saw her brake.
therfor it would seem that she could not be proved to be lying and if she wasnt in control of the vehicle because she had fainted then she could not be held responsible for her actions and not be found guilty.
its likely the truth will never be known and like anyone who has lost someone the family must feel gutted but thats our judicial system

wgwarburton

EKE_38BPM wrote:

.... I just find it bloody scary that people randomly faint. This could have been any one of us cycling along and being mown down by a car.

Or Neil Armstrong walking on the moon.
Or the pilot taking us on our holidays.
Or an athlete on the world stage.
...

Yes. That's one of the main reasons why we have things like co-pilots and "buddy systems" in activities & occupations where the consequences of an episode like that are potentially serious.
It's unlikely that a driver will pass out and kill someone, but only unlikely, not impossible.

Cheers,
W.

mtb-idle

MrChuck wrote:

Cynicism is all well and good but the supposition that she's gamed the system and 'got away with it' just doesn't stack up for me given the information we have.

The indisputable facts are that

a) She killed someone
b) She is free

some may see that as 'got away with it'

dennisn

MTB-Idle wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

Cynicism is all well and good but the supposition that she's gamed the system and 'got away with it' just doesn't stack up for me given the information we have.

The indisputable facts are that

a) She killed someone
b) She is free

some may see that as 'got away with it'

I disagree, "getting away with it", would imply that you intended to DO IT in the first place.

zanes

MTB-Idle wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

Cynicism is all well and good but the supposition that she's gamed the system and 'got away with it' just doesn't stack up for me given the information we have.

The indisputable facts are that

a) She killed someone
b) She is free

I see that as 'got away with it' so I think other people must also see it that way

FTFY.

MonkeyMonster

dennisn wrote:

MTB-Idle wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

Cynicism is all well and good but the supposition that she's gamed the system and 'got away with it' just doesn't stack up for me given the information we have.

The indisputable facts are that

a) She killed someone
b) She is free

some may see that as 'got away with it'

I disagree, "getting away with it", would imply that you intended to DO IT in the first place.

While sharks are on the mind I'll bite to this - I would think that MTB was not suggesting that she necessarily meant to DO IT all - she DID end up killing another human and yet is walking out "scot free" as far as our judicial system is concerned - as I think he correctly notes - there will some who will see that as she "got away with it" it being killing someone, albeit accidently.

mtb-idle

zanes wrote:

MTB-Idle wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

Cynicism is all well and good but the supposition that she's gamed the system and 'got away with it' just doesn't stack up for me given the information we have.

The indisputable facts are that

a) She killed someone
b) She is free

I see that as 'got away with it' so I think other people must also see it that way

FTFY.

Full-time first year?

EKE_38BPM

So, if you want to kill someone whilst driving, plough into that person (ped, cyclist, motorcyclist, car driver etc) without braking and crash into something to stop you (wall, lamp-post etc) and then say you have no recollection.

Medical tests will show you as normal (if thats what you are) and you will "get away with it".

I have no reason to believe that Mrs Range Rover-Driver deliberately crashed into the cyclists, just planning my next murder and alibi.

Now I just have to remember not to post my intentions on any online fora.

CyclingBantam

I really think that driving isn't taken seriously enough. If you were to introduce it now and say there would be thousands killed on the road each year it would be banned instantly.

Driving should not be thought of as a right, it is a privilage. If she has just blacked out then until the reason why is identified has been found she shouldn't be driving again. It sounds harsh but it doesn't put an end to her life where as if she kills someone else because 'we didn't know it would happen again' it is clearly an end to their life.

I would hope that she takes the descision herself not to drive. It must be hard enough to know you have killed someone but to have done it again after continuing driving...

emdeef

BenBlyth wrote:

Driving should not be thought of as a right, it is a privilege. If she has just blacked out then until the reason why is identified has been found she shouldn't be driving again. It sounds harsh but it doesn't put an end to her life where as if she kills someone else because 'we didn't know it would happen again' it is clearly an end to their life.

I would hope that she takes the decision herself not to drive. It must be hard enough to know you have killed someone but to have done it again after continuing driving...

+1

prj45

emdeef wrote:

BenBlyth wrote:

Driving should not be thought of as a right, it is a privilege. If she has just blacked out then until the reason why is identified has been found she shouldn't be driving again. It sounds harsh but it doesn't put an end to her life where as if she kills someone else because 'we didn't know it would happen again' it is clearly an end to their life.

I would hope that she takes the decision herself not to drive. It must be hard enough to know you have killed someone but to have done it again after continuing driving...

+1

but they've said in the report they could find no medical reason why she blacked out, and presumably no reason why she would black out again.

We're all liable to fainting, I've done it once on my bike (although that was lack of energy due to not eating enough).

dennisn

MonkeyMonster wrote:

dennisn wrote:

MTB-Idle wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

Cynicism is all well and good but the supposition that she's gamed the system and 'got away with it' just doesn't stack up for me given the information we have.

The indisputable facts are that

a) She killed someone
b) She is free

some may see that as 'got away with it'

I disagree, "getting away with it", would imply that you intended to DO IT in the first place.

While sharks are on the mind I'll bite to this - I would think that MTB was not suggesting that she necessarily meant to DO IT all - she DID end up killing another human and yet is walking out "scot free" as far as our judicial system is concerned - as I think he correctly notes - there will some who will see that as she "got away with it" it being killing someone, albeit accidently.

I see what you are saying. My apologies to MTB if I misunderstood what he was saying.

PBo

Dennis,

just be grateful this thread is in "commuting" - otherwise someone would haver blamed Lance by now......

EKE_38BPM

I hear Mrs Range Rover-Driver was on EPO and passed out due to blood thickening. The impacts gave her the jolt to wake up and saved her life.

mtb-idle

dennisn wrote:

I see what you are saying. My apologies to MTB if I misunderstood what he was saying.

apology accepted