Tug of love, Soul vs Mmmbop

Northwind

This is like that episode of Neighbours where Bouncer had to choose a new owner. I'm casting the Mmmbop as Mrs Mangel and the Soul as Mike, which makes me the dog. Nice one.

So anyway. Built up the Mmmbop using the Soul's bits. It's really, really damn good. First ride had me firing down silly things that I can do on the Soul, but I'd be pretty careful of, the Mmmbop just gets on with it. But it still climbs almost as well as the Soul, and it's a wee bit lighter. Nothing like as comfy, even with a 2.35 rear tyre the rear end is pretty harsh by comparison and it seems to scrabble a bit more, going round wee rocks instead of over, which is a bit disconcerting... I did a decent ride today round a route I do all the time and the bike definately was not quite as composed on fast rooty stuff or on loose climbs.

So, that's mostly good. It's not outright better than the Soul but it's a better descender, and it feels properly fast and snappy. And it does really well at the XC stuff, maybe not quite as well but very close. Steering is a bit odd, it needs to be seriously bossed around, I soon found myself leading with the shoulders to get it round tight stuff but that's OK.

But the Soul's a better all rounder... Also the Mmmbop basically rides quite a lot like my Hemlock which will mean less variety in the garage. But then that's good, at Ae I just kept thinking "I want a bike that rides like my Hemlock but weighs as much as my Soul". That's basically what this is.

Oh, and the Soul is lovely to look at, the Mmmbop is just plain fugly.

So... Dunno. What do we reckon?

rudedog

how did your first ride on the Ragley compare to your first ride on the Cotic?

The Northern Monkey

Sounds like you could do with the Soul as an everyday bike and the Mmmbop as another occasional bike.

From what you're describing and f I was in your shoes, i'd only want the Mmmbop if I already had the Soul.

Northwind

Mmm, hard to say. First ride on a Soul was a demo so it was all built up and ready. The Mmmbop had a few really short, simple rides to shake down the drivetrain etc so it didn't get the same big entrance. The Soul felt magic, basically, after I rode it I couldn't ride my Scandal again without thinking "This is pish". But then the Mmmbop was never likely to be able to do that, if I'd ridden it back to back with the Scandal I'd probably feel the same but it's a harder act to follow. Does that make sense?

Mmm, Monkey, you're probably right but I can't afford to build them up to the same standard, and what I found out last time i tried that was that I'd always just ride the bike with the nicer build. I'm building a rigid XC bike which'll be ideal for the simpler local trails so that'll take over some Soul work maybe. Maybe...

Oh, the other real advantage the Mmmbop has is resale, the Soul frame will obviously sell for more. Oh and the Hemlock's getting Lyriks so the Rev Teams out of that will be free and they'll suit the Mmmbop, they won't suit the Soul. Then again I could sell them, but I want to have the option of putting the Teams back in the Hemlock for lighter jobs.

Aargh. It's not a bad place to be, this, but it's doing my head in

Anonymous

get rid of the hemlock, build the mmbop out of it and keep the soul.

blister pus

let time be the final arbiter, all will be revealed

.....or get better on the soul........Its the CEN tested soul?

Northwind

sheepsteeth wrote:

get rid of the hemlock, build the mmbop out of it and keep the soul.

Nah. (Just in case Cy's reading this I'm no less a fanboy! I may be cheating on you with that other niche british bike dude but the Hemlock's still the best bike i've ever ridden, by a fair way)

blister pus wrote:

.....or get better on the soul........Its the CEN tested soul?

It's the last one before, the 130mm model. I've already got quite a lot better on the Soul Actually it's done a lot for my riding. But there's some times it feels a wee bit edgier, especially after the ridiculous "ride anything" feel of the Hemlock.

blister pus

lol i didn't mean that as a sleight, i've had a road to Damascus epiphany watching a rider on rockrider 8.1 show people up, that's all.

and do you think the 'new cen' soul with 140 travel would bridge the 'deficiency' gap?

if so, sell both, recoup a good chunk of the money and you'd only have to pony up a small amount for a new soul

peter413

Keep the Soul, your getting old and could do with the comfort

Or if you want to keep the Mmmbop as the replacement for the Soul, use the Soul instead of the Carrera

Or swap the mmmbop for my 456, wouldn't mind something slacker, then you could sell the 456 or do what you want with it, you really wouldn't care what you did with it but it's still comfortable

cat_with_no_tail

What tyres are you using on the bop?

If you can get a really massive volume tyre (still keeping it around 2.3-2.4 though) that might help.

As a fellow Bop owner, I'm obviously going to be biased in my opinion. I have however noticed that the shorter stem, huuuuge tyres and joplin cured all the problems I had initially, it's still no mountain goat. But it's not supposed to be.

rudedog

you should try some Rubber Queens Northwind

Northwind

blister pus wrote:

and do you think the 'new cen' soul with 140 travel would bridge the 'deficiency' gap?

Mmm, I'm not sure, I've run mine with 140mm briefly and it was nice but not massively different. I thought about a carbon 456 as well for a bit for the same reasons. Did consider a BFe with the Rev Teams in as well at one point. The bottom line is that what the Soul does best maybe isn't exactly what I want now.

(frinstance... I ummed and ahh'd about what bike to take to France but eventually took the Hemlock as it's capable of doing anything I'd dare ride, really. It's heavier and burlier but it was the better choice, and I was really glad I took it as it meant I had a blast on descents that I'd have been more cautious of on the Soul. And I wouldn't have done the superbagneres DH. Actually the guide wouldn't have been keen to let me! Early impression of the Mmmbop is that I wouldn't have felt the same if I'd taken it, on the silly steep stuff I'd have probably wet myself on the Soul.

Then again on the 24km tour de france climb the Soul would have been nice!

peter413 wrote:

Or if you want to keep the Mmmbop as the replacement for the Soul, use the Soul instead of the Carrera

Huh. I hadn't thought of that at all. mmm. It's like leaving a stack of money in the garage and I'd probably want to get some nicer kit for it- I don't mind leaving crap cranks and wheels on the carrera but the Soul's used to finery. But it's a good idea, I'll need to think on that one.

Not swapping for your 456 You'd like the Mmmbop though I think. But then maybe when we're buzzing round the red I'll be jealous of the 456. Part of this is, when I got the Hemlock it was supposed to be the "big bike", I actually expected it to be no fun on the red or zorb etc... But it turned out to be brilliant at that too even though it's lardy. So the job I thought was just for the Soul ended up being a bit split.

Cat With No Tail wrote:

What tyres are you using on the bop?

2.35 Nevegal up the front and Small Block up the back. Bigg-ish but not huge volume, not particularily tall tyres. I could run a dab less pressure though. Have to say I'm not bothered about how it climbs at all, I'd suspected it'd be wandery but it's pretty planted. Brant is quite good at this isn't he I'm still to try it with a 50mm but the 60mm feels pretty nice already.

rudedog wrote:

you should try some Rubber Queens Northwind

Heh. I might get another one for the rigid, the 2.2 would work well on that or even the 2.4.

paul.skibum

keep the Soul because its not designed by Brant Richards.

What bike are you going to take on longer xc jaunts outside of a trail centre - the Soul is the only one that makes sense - the MmmBop isnt going to be a good long ride bike, it also has a stupid name, looks hideous and was designed by Brant who is a ....... (insert your own insult).

cat_with_no_tail

Try the Fat Alberts. Seriously.

Not exactly light, but not too bad at all. And very high volume

Anonymous

Cat With No Tail wrote:

Not exactly light, but not too bad at all. And very high volume

thats like my balls.

cat_with_no_tail

I'll balIs your like in a minute

Northwind

paul.skibum wrote:

What bike are you going to take on longer xc jaunts outside of a trail centre - the Soul is the only one that makes sense - the MmmBop isnt going to be a good long ride bike

It did about 35km today no bother. The 2 longest rides I've ever done were on the Hemlock And it did a big stretch of west highland way last year too. None of these 3 bikes have any bother with long XC rides, and the rigid'll be good for that too.

COuldn't care less who designed it tbh, I wasn't that impressed with Brant when he told me to get the wrong size Scandal but if the bike rides right, he'd done his job, right? There'd be no Cotic without Brant too, most likely.

cat_with_no_tail

paul.skibum wrote:

keep the Soul because its not designed by Brant Richards.

What bike are you going to take on longer xc jaunts outside of a trail centre - the Soul is the only one that makes sense - the MmmBop isnt going to be a good long ride bike, it also has a stupid name, looks hideous and was designed by Brant who is a ....... (insert your own insult).

Dont agree with that at all.

I do at least 1 30-40miler on mine every week, and it's perfectly capable. Actually pedals very well indeed. The extra stiffness means you can really put the power down well.

Anonymous

i'll put you down a well in a minute.

The Northern Monkey

paul.skibum wrote:

keep the Soul because its not designed by Brant Richards.

What bike are you going to take on longer xc jaunts outside of a trail centre - the Soul is the only one that makes sense - the MmmBop isnt going to be a good long ride bike, it also has a stupid name, looks hideous and was designed by Brant who is a ....... (insert your own insult).

Thats far too tempting.... I don't want to be banned

peter413

You going to be down at faries on saturday?

Wouldn't mind having a shot on the Mmmbop, wanna know if I prefer it to the 456

Torres

Heres my 2p Northwind.
From what i understand the soul is better 80% of the time to the bop, it's more comfortable, better over the rough stuff and of course better looking
The Bop is better downhill, but you have the hemlock for beeing a loon on, so i deduce it comes down to two choices:
Sell the bop and have the soul for your normal rides and the hemlock for bigger stuff.
Sell the hemlock and have the bop for harder riding.

Since you don't want to sell the hemlock i'd say the mmmbop will have to bow out... or be built up as bike no. 3

davewalsh

Here's my suggestion, sell them both and get the new Blue Pig X.
Comfort of the soul, descending ability of the mmmbop. Sorted !

evillittlegoat

Cat With No Tail wrote:

Try the Fat Alberts. Seriously.

Not exactly light, but not too bad at all. And very high volume

Are you running the 2.4s? How are finding them, apart from their shock absorbing qualities?

Northwind

Ooh, Blue Pig X looks good. Though I think maybe I'd be better getting a massive steel leviathan to wreak total utter devastation. Ah **** you Brant now I've got that song stuck in my head.

peter413 wrote:

You going to be down at faries on saturday?

Wouldn't mind having a shot on the Mmmbop, wanna know if I prefer it to the 456

Nah, we're off to the air show on saturday. Not sure about the next one either.

Torres wrote:

From what i understand the soul is better 80% of the time to the bop, it's more comfortable, better over the rough stuff and of course better looking

Mmm, wouldn't really say that, the 2 perform pretty similiarly. The Soul's definately more comfortable but I'm not finding the mmmbop horrible. The slightly worse rear end grip/tracking is pretty much offset by the better front end confidence. They ride differently but I wouldn't say either one was out and out worse, that's why it's so tricky

peter413

Northwind wrote:

Nah, we're off to the air show on saturday. Not sure about the next one either.

I'm disapointed in you, really really disappointed

Northwind

I got things to do man, people to see. Well, airioplanes to see.

joshtp

The 'Bop is a Medium right? well if you do sell it, and i think you should, Torres pretty much said what i think, i will more than happily take it off your hands.... i reaslly do want an MMMBop, but im away for 10 days next week, and i dobt there will be any left by then at CRC....

Basicly, i want you to sell me your MMMBop for about £120 reducer headest included....

Northwind

Tragically it's a small

OK, what I'm noticing here is, I'm defending the Mmmbop. Which is probably my brain telling me I like it. There's possibly more good reasons to keep the Soul so that's interesting. So the thing to do obviously is to fling the Soul in a box and keep it for a bit til I've spent a lot more time on the Bop but I do think it's the keeper just now

Cheers folks!

joshtp

Northwind wrote:

Tragically it's a small

OK, what I'm noticing here is, I'm defending the Mmmbop. Which is probably my brain telling me I like it. There's possibly more good reasons to keep the Soul so that's interesting. So the thing to do obviously is to fling the Soul in a box and keep it for a bit til I've spent a lot more time on the Bop but I do think it's the keeper just now

Cheers folks!

DAMN!

Northwind

OK, it looks like Mrs Mangel is winning here. Just took the Mmmbop to Glentress and gave it a bit of a workout on the off-piste stuff and bits of the black. <trail name deleted for security purposes> is pretty steep, rooty and was muddy today too, and the bike had a completely inappropriate rear tyre for that sort of thing, but it still made it all a hoot to ride. I've ridden it all on the Soul and it does do it fine but the Mmmbop let me attack it all a bit more, and got me down one bit first time that often takes me a couple of stabs. Also first-timed the wormhole entrance, which is a bit of a personal bogieman of mine even though it's not really that hard, I'm lucky if I manage that 1 time out of 3 on the Soul.

So, to some extent it's skill-compensating But it also jumps lovely, corners ace on the singletrack descents, climbs not too bad... I'd thought it'd maybe be a wee bit vague steering but it was decent on the northshore stuff and I could whip it around on the xc descents. So, all round good news.

I think I've gone for a size too small though, the seatpost's absolutely bang on maximum which I don't like much and it feels a tiny bit cramped. So I might need to try a medium.

Oh, here it is. Behold my custom graphics!