2nd broken Commencal Super 4.3 frame.... Not impressed.

weeksy59

diy wrote:

edited while you were typing - I had not read the whole thread - sorry..

Ask for parts at cost, just because you don't want to reject the bike, doesn't prevent you from using it as a lever

They don't seem to have the DMR stems on their list of options... it's not even the £36.99 i care about to be honest... i'd happily (sort of) pay that now just to get rid of the Commencal frame...

Or, am i being unecessarily harsh on Commencal ?

Should i just say "sod it, give me another Super 4 frame" and then i get all my current componentry....

stubs

weeksy59 wrote:

Or, am i being unecessarily harsh on Commencal ?

Should i just say "sod it, give me another Super 4 frame" and then i get all my current componentry....

I am on my 4th super 4 frame and I am like you I wouldnt have another Commenfail if they paid me to ride it. I would say stick to your guns get anything other than another commencrack, just how confident are you going to be smacking over rocks with all the failures on your mind.

weeksy59

stubs wrote:

weeksy59 wrote:

Or, am i being unecessarily harsh on Commencal ?

Should i just say "sod it, give me another Super 4 frame" and then i get all my current componentry....

I am on my 4th super 4 frame and I am like you I wouldnt have another Commenfail if they paid me to ride it. I would say stick to your guns get anything other than another commencrack, just how confident are you going to be smacking over rocks with all the failures on your mind.

I'm deffo inclined to agree, even if it costs me £36.99 for a new stem. I simply don't want a Commencal.

biff55

weeksy59 wrote:

I don't want a refund mate, i just want a machine that i can ride down a mountain once and every now and again and expect it to be usable the next time i go to it. The Commencal isn't filling me with confidence on that.

you've answered your own problem in a way there.
i would look at what is the best solution long term , even if it means not having the bike ready for your upcoming planned rides.
you're not happy with the commencal frames so no point getting another.
so either money back , which you're reluctant to do , or different frame which causes compatability problems and extra incured costs.
if it me , try and get cash back and start again , no questions.

weeksy59

biff55 wrote:

weeksy59 wrote:

even if it means not having the bike ready for your upcoming planned rides.
.

For the Afan Monster i've raised over £1100 for Macmillan cancer care, my dad died 2 weeks back from cancer.. so missing that event on the 25th simply isn't an option.

Obviously though i do have options of other bikes from mates etc, sadly the likely one easiest is a hardtail Gary Fisher lol... it's a decent enough machine but i wouldn't fancy 100km of Afan on it.

I guess my list will be as follows for chat with Evans on Monday
1. Can i have a different bike then for the same value please.
2. Can i have a set of forks that WILL fit and we'll put it right that way
3. Can i get a refund instead please.
4. Can i have a set of forks at cost price and i'll sell my forks
5. If i buy a new stem and that works, can i get the equivalent £37 from you in components/clothing/whatever.

PArt of me is sitting looking at forks on Ebay with full length steerer and thinking "well, it's only £130, just buy it and move on".... but the stubborn part of me is thinking "why should i, i've not actually done anything apart from ride my bike i paid them a LOT of money for"

biff55

sorry , didnt realise the importance of the event.

weeksy59

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

Well that's interesting... they have the DMR Swarms apparently in stock and are open tomorrow. IT's only a 35mins drive from mine and then 25 to Evans... So i could shoot over, buy it and get over to Evans to test and see.

Lets hope they have one in stock. Couldn't care less on the colour to be honest.

stubs

Thats a 25.4mm stem in the link I thought the Super 4 came with 31.8mm bars. Best check before you make the journey.

ROCHA

Maybe you could get Evan's to replace your broken frame by one of these:
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/pace/rc405-2009-mountain-bike-frame-ec008567
It's the size you want, right?
Looks better than the bmc, and compatibility issues should be the same as for BMC. Different size post(maybe) and no ISCG, fork steerer length to be consulted. Could work

Just a thought. I Hope it's helpful

weeksy59

Stubs, my carbon bars are small dia 25.4, not oversize 31.8's, but yes, the Commie comes with oversize usually. If i had the choice i'd probably go for the 31.8's to give backwards compatibility, but i could really do with testing it ASAP so i know for Monday morning where me and Evans need to be going.

Rocha... they never had that in stock last week when i picked the BMC, so deffo would be lovely. Apart from the fact that anything i can find for it as a whole bike is running 140's on the front. So i'd expect problems with geometry?

weeksy59

This stem has been thrown in the pot as a very good suggestion due to the stack height only being 30mm,as opposed to approx 50mm for my other stem.
The only downfall in this plan is that it's potentally throwing off the geometry by being only a 55mm and 0deg rise stem. In fact,due to the type, it will be lowering my bars by about 2" over a standard minor rise and 90mm stem.

How much is that potentially going to mess us my handling ?

weeksy59

Well CAmberley cycles have the stem in stock .... So... do i fit a stem, run that if it works.... or not ?

biff55

looking at the product i suggested earlier , there's no reason you cant fit it upside down which would lift the handlebars upwards and closer to its original height.
shorter stem will alter bike handling clearly , but it could even improve control on descents anyway.
just an idea.
your money your choice.
either that or new forks.

weeksy59

biff55 wrote:

looking at the product i suggested earlier , there's no reason you cant fit it upside down which would lift the handlebars upwards and closer to its original height.
shorter stem will alter bike handling clearly , but it could even improve control on descents anyway.
just an idea.
your money your choice.
either that or new forks.

I was wondering about fitting it upside down too actually.

Going to hang fire today as it's raining and i can't be bothered going to Camberley lol. So will speak to Evans in the morning we'll see what they suggest, then make some decisions.

If i keep that BMCframe it's a bit of a trade off in some ways.

Gains:
Different (hopefully non cracking) frame
180 rotor (Evans should supply that)
RP2 shock.

Loses :
E-13 single ring and bash (can use bash and a double ring i guess)
Stem, potential handling issues and possible cost of stem
Forks, if replaced may not be as good as ones i have.

weeksy59

Todays ramblings before anywhere opens to chat.

The simplest solution really seems to be a fork replacement. However will Evans have the budget and say-so to be able to authorise that ? Forks are not cheap as you know and they're quite limited on stock.
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/mar ... k-ec017402
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/roc ... 0-ec019909

Are the 2 they have in stock in 100mm which suit the BMC frame. Don't know what they'd buy them in for etc so not sure on the viability of swapping my worn Recons for a set of them. I was even thinking, "Ok, i'll pay £125 cash for the new forks and you pay a chunk, as long as i can have my Recons back to sell"... I think that sounds pretty fair ?

Next easiest option is to go back to a Commencal. As much as i worry about the breaking, i don't have an issue with the ride on the Commencal, i really like it. However i will have a little chat with Madison about swapping to a Meta and 140's instead of a Super 4 as i think they're a bit more likely to survive. The Super 4 now comes with 120's up front, so really if Madison are swapping frames from an 09 to a 2010 shouldn't they really swap the forks too ? As the MEta is showing on Madison as the same price for a frame as the Super 4, maybe Madison will go with that.

If neither of the above are viable it starts getting complex then as it's either full exchange for whole bike, refund or even more radical, i buy a set of forks myself from Ebay/forums and we fit them.

Madison open earlier than Evans so will be chatting with Madison first of all to see the viability of Meta and whether they have stock of a Meta/Super4 ready to ship anyway.

weeksy59

HAd a decent chat with Madison today... good lads actually.

Assuming Evans can't offer me anything particularly brilliant as a plan regarding forks, then Madison are happy to send a newer newer 2010 which is apparently a slightly redesigned rear triangle from the frame i have. They have a medium in stock (size mine is) and can ship to Evans today.

MAdison were more than happy to send me a Meta frame, however they wouldn't be happy from a warranty context if i ran 100mm Recons in it, which is fair enough. I guess i could purchase a pair of 140's but then once again we start getting messy with components etc and me spending money which isn't really my plan.

I'm still inclined to stick with the BMC frame at the moment if Evans can come up with a plan for the forks... but it's hardly the end of the world to go back to a frame and componentry i know and like of the Super 4... ASSUMING IT DOESN'T ALSO BREAK !!! lol

biff55

i'd be tempted to grab a sturdier meta frame if its being offered and sell current forks towards buying new bigger forks.
cash outlay from you i know but you might be left with a bike that lasts longer.
see what evans have to say as its their call
hope things got sorted for you and et us know how it pans out.

bails87

Now you know that Madison are ok with it, I'd take the super 4, seeing as you like it. If it really has been strengthened slightly.

Then you can start saving up, if the Super 4 fails again, you know that Madison are good with warranties, so you should be able to swap it for a meta, and use the money you had saved up to buy smoe 140mm forks for it.

If the Super 4 is fine then you've got a frame you like, and you haven't had to buy new stems, forks etc.

weeksy59

biff55 wrote:

i'd be tempted to grab a sturdier meta frame if its being offered and sell current forks towards buying new bigger forks.
cash outlay from you i know but you might be left with a bike that lasts longer.

That's the road my head is leading me down at this moment in time.

Madison have a Medium Super 4 and a Large Meta in stock. I generally run a smaller frame than some of my size,but can't see it being a major problem to swap to a large.

Evans guy has gone away to discuss the plan on forks and see what they can do for me on price etc.

Rockshox Recon 351 Solo Air 140 £299.99 with standard QR's

Marzocchi 44 ATA Micro Fork £349.99

Are the 2 real candidates they have in stock at the moment... so if we can get them down to a sensible figure on them... we could consider it as a plan.

weeksy59

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/roc ... 0-ec019907

Evans can do them, but we're struggling on the price as the bike needs a new rear brake hose and potentially a couple of other minor things.

So... my choice is... MEdium super 4 no cost.... but still running a Super 4.

Large Meta.... £150 (after i sell my forks) running 140's....

weeksy59

Found them for £279.99 on CRC and Wiggle and Evans are happy to drop to that price.

So i've decided to go with the Meta. I think for places like Afan etc getting the Meta is the best long term plan, slightly heavier bike but much sturdier and more all-mountain than the Super 4. As i do a good chunk of XC but also enjoy and try to get to the trail centres as often as i humanly can, i think that's the best plan overall.

The refund option simply was going to work out a nightmare and leave me without a bike for far too long and with the events i have coming up this month, i really really want my own bike up and running for it.

The adventure continues LOL.

weeksy59

Frame and other little bits etc have been ordered and are winging their way to the workshop as we speak.

The good thing with the MEta is that i also get to keep my single ring system that i like and the fact i should have it for the weekend too. (fingers crossed)

This means that i can in theory run it in the Brecon Beast should me and one of the boys go and play

My sig is even more amusing.... i wouldn't give £10 for a frame... but i guess i would give £140ish for a frame and a set of forks LOL.

biff55

glad to see progress being made.
sitting on a stronger frame with super forks will make it all worthwhile once finished

JonnyN

Good decision I'd say. Should be able to recoup a good chunk of money selling the old forks too!

weeksy59

JonnyN wrote:

Good decision I'd say. Should be able to recoup a good chunk of money selling the old forks too!

I've put them up on here for £155. I think that's a reasonable price ?

There's anohter pair on Ebay for £200 so either i'm too low or he's too high lol

diy

If its now down to haggling over a few quid with evans, tell them you've considered your contract position and want to rescind the contract and source an alternative bike, as its more bother than just going for something completely new. However in the interest of convenience you are willing to consider without prejudice x for y. if they can agree and confirm build date of z, noting that time is of the essence. Then you will be willing to accept their remedy.

PS - contract law entitles you to recover the cost of hiring a bike for the duration that you didn't have the benefit, subject to obligations to mitigate losses, so maybe they will lend you something if they are struggling with the build?

weeksy59

Sorry buddy, you missed a few bits

Will be getting a 2010 Meta 5 with Recon 140's before the end of the week (as long as all parts come in stock)

The deal will cost me about £120 but for that i get a large Meta (instead of medium Super4) with an RP23 (instead of floatR) with new brake lines and bled etc and a brand new set of 140 Recons.

When you look at it like that, i'm a happy bunny.

JonnyN

£120 for an upgraded frame, forks and shock! Good work!!

diy

yep good deal - enjoy the ride. there is 400 quids worth of upgrade in that lot at least

weeksy59

So i collected the Meta today... Evans i must admit have done a great job, in 13 days they had 2 frames fitted up and lots of components ordered.
As well as the new 140mm Recons they fitted 2 new brake lines, 1 brake cable, 1 headset all just because "we thought we'd do it right". Can't argue with that really.

The bike is a MONSTER.. really big.. but i have about 1" clearance standing over the toptube,just about touches my shorts. But does feel really bike.

I love some of the little touches like the gear cable running through the swingarm instead of on top of it. The non-triangular rear section is nice too.
Sadly i can't fit any of my protectors for the swingarm as it's about 4" wide instead of the normal 1.5" so i've used helicopter tape on the places where it may be needed. Also used tape on the fork tops and headstock where cables are going to rub as well.

Pro-pedal seems to work fine on the Fox RP2 shock and the feeling from the forks is of plushness.

The e-13 single ring system seems to fit better and makes a lot less noise on this than the super 4. Although looking at the lines it takes i think my middle ring needs replacing with the one i bought on Ebay last week. No biggy there, some of my components are past their best as not everything gets swapped on a frame swap lol.

No idea what it's like on the dirt and bumps yet... but that report will follw by 2pm as i'm taking it out in a minute for a play.