2nd broken Commencal Super 4.3 frame.... Not impressed.

weeksy59

So i had my 2009 Super4.3 replaced under warranty and after 4 months i've now split the rear triangle on the 2010 after Afan yesterday.

To say i'm under impressed is an understatement.

I have the Macmillan Afan Monster in 4 weeks and consdiering recent familly circumstances, missing the event simply isn't viable or on the agenda. I was also planning the Brecon Beast as a warm up 2 weeks today.

Bike was bought in Evans Cycles in Reading...

So... what do i do now.... Hmmmm

Replacement frame/triangle or tell them i don't want it any more ???

Nightmare.

MountainMonster

I have a feeling the shop/commencal would pay foir the new rear triangle, but getting them to pay for a new bike might be hard. Evans might buy a new bike for you and take up the cost for it but not sure.

Anonymous

first thing I'd do is change your sig!
Try and get the bike sorted for the races, but I think you should also be keeping an eye out for what to replace it with.

stubs

At least you have a few weeks to get it sorted your lucky it didnt go the day before. email the importers commencalwarranty@madison.co.uk with some photos of the break and the frame number.

Any chance of a photo of the break I have the same frame and I want to know what to look for.

weeksy59

Well they have no choice but to replace the rear triangle as it's well within waranty, the new frame is less than 4 months old.

However, i'm not convinced i want another and to be sitting without the bike again for 4 weeks as i wait for the warranty replacement.

Do you not think it falls into the 'fit for purpose' catagory ?

supersonic

Difficult to say. You have a pretty good case against it, but they could argue that they have a right to repair or replace. The grey area is how long do you accept this?

Your first port of call is usually the retailer, but I see Commencal have set another system up. This is in addition to your rights, not instead of them: your contract still lies with Evans.

weeksy59

supersonic wrote:

Your first port of call is usually the retailer, but I see Commencal have set another system up. This is in addition to your rights, not instead of them: your contract still lies with Evans.

Yup,deffo, will be going into see Evans blokey tomorrow.

weeksy59

stubs wrote:

Any chance of a photo of the break I have the same frame and I want to know what to look for.

Sorry mate, can't get any pics due to the white frame reflecting back on the camera, it's just a pile of white LOL. It's about 2" in length and at the join on rear triangle just by the back wheel.

smegurmum

weeksy59 wrote:

Do you not think it falls into the 'fit for purpose' catagory ?

getting a bike to fall into a "fit for purpose" claim is an absolute ball ache, mainly due to the many applications you could use the bike for and the other options (like the opposite of being overbiked).

The super 4 is more xc than trail riding (assuming thats what you were riding) so maybe look at getting this sorted and getting something like a meta

weeksy59

Well i can't say i got terribly far.

They're happy enough that it's broken and that's a problem. However the consensus for today is "we'll speak to Madison tomorrow and see what they come back with".

Obviously my contract under sale of goods act specifies that my deal is with Evans, not with Madison. But for now i'm happy enough with that in my cards in waiting.
Evans are aware that i don't want a Commencal frame back and that's what they'll be telling Madison too.

It was all nice and cheerful at the moment and i can't fault anything they've done or said, that's what i'd say if i were them too probably.

So it's sit and wait time really.

supersonic

Evans will wait for Madison to assess, then agree with what they say, pretty standard practice.

weeksy59

Not what we discussed. The bike won't be sent to MAdison before i get some feedback. The plan is that Evans will speak to them on the phone and request the return.

I don't know what way to play it all out yet. I agree that's pretty much standard and Evans will pretty much go along if Madison say "we will only replace it/repair etc" But... by all rights, my contract isn't with Madison, it's with my retailer, so they are the ones responsible irrespective of whether Madison will refund/credit them or not.

Of course, that may all be a lot easier on here than in the real world LOL.

I also discussed a loan bike with Evans as they do a 30 day trial of bikes, so worst case scenario i need something to train on for the next few weeks as i have the Afan Monster and the Brecon Beast coming up.

supersonic

The first part is probably better news, as will save time, and they obviously won't try and screw you with 'rider error' larks.

You are correct, the contract does lie with Evans and are responsible, but if Madison send a replacement, then Evans will take it as their own course of action if you get what I mean.

Hopefully you will get a choice. Two frames failing is pretty bad, but often I hear its the third when refunds happen.

Good luck anyway!

weeksy59

Thanks buddy.

Don't want a refund, giving me the cash is sod all use to me

I want and need a bike that works.

I guess a possible option is for me to say to them, fine, how about i get a Meta5 frame instead of a Super4. THe MEta is more of an all-mountain than the Super4 which is arguably an XC frame.

The only problem then is that i'm either fitting my 100mm forks onto a bike that runs 140's as standard or shelling out for a set of 140's and selling my Recons that come as stock on my Super4. It's not a wonderful option as it then costs me money... but could be a decent compromise.

Anonymous

Madison handle other brands too. I'd be inclined to ask if I could swap to another brand, but of a similar type of bike.

weeksy59

Plan 1 is to swap via Evans to a Specialized FSR Expert 2010 which Evans have in stock in my size.

Your plan is deffo a good one though should that fail mate yes

pdid

Sorry to hear that mate, it`s the first breakage of a 2010 frame that i`ve heard about.

Your problem with swapping for a different frame is your rear shock. It is set up for the 4 so you would probably need one to suit whichever frame you got which would again cost you, unless you can swing it with Evans.

weeksy59

Well i spoke to Madison this morning (the distributor) and they said they can't see any reason at all they won't give Evans a credit and Evans can then supply me with anything i like from their stock. I was very impressed with Madison as techincally they say they don't deal directly with customers but were a good bunch of lads and very helpful

Looking at Evans stock for approx same values as i paid £1100, there's a few potential options but i'llstick a thread up in buying advice for that.

Evans are going to ring Madison in the next hour and we'll see from there, but it's hopeful.

Anonymous

Good stuff, glad you got such a good deal with Madison

weeksy59

Well that got interesting... LOL.

"Madison are happy to replace the frame but not the whole bike"

So, i have to choose just a frame, which limits my options hugely due to a distinct lack of frames that Evans actually stock.

The one winning on size and compatibility currently is the frame that makes up this

Evans Cycles | BMC Trailfox TF02 2009 Mountain Bike | Online Bike Shop

http://www.evanscycles.com/categories/bike-frames/mountain-bikes-suspension-frames


The Pace is a small and the other BMC Fourstroke is designed for a 80-100mm fork, whereas mine is a 120mm fork.

I'm not exactly ecstatic with their reply, but in all honesty, it's fair enough. I've had 8 months out of the components so to expect new for old is optimistic indeed. I could have messed about trying to get a Commencal Meta and then upgrading forks, or probably paying out more to get the BMC fourstroke carbon... but time is of the essecence due to needing a bike for the Brecon Beast and Afan Monster this month...

So i'm ending up with the BMC LOL.

What you rekon then lads ?

Anonymous

Better than a Commencal. I'd have more faith in it, for sure.

weeksy59

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Better than a Commencal. I'd have more faith in it, for sure.

I have a broom at home i'd have more faith in than the Super4 for getting down Afan

weeksy59

Just had a call from Evans, new frame came in today and will be built Sunday lunchtime for collection about 1pm Sunday. Happy with that. Good service and friendly lads

milfredo

A pleasing to read and successful warranty story

weeksy59

AWWWWWWW sodding hell,

Had bloke from Evans on the phone and we've run into a pile of issues with part compatibility.

1. SRS e-thirteen single ring won't work due to ISCG type mount issues, not a major issue, i can run the 3 ring system or even 2 and the bash plate and refit front mech.

2. 160 disk not correct, needs to be a 185mm disc and spaced. OK, also not a major issue, i can live with spending £20 on a 185 rotor

3. This is the biggy... Fork steerer length too short for the headstock on the new frame. Obviously this is a showstopper and no simple way around this. I'm guessing the best bet may be to sell the current forks on there and replace with a new set ? What's a set of Recon solo SL 100mm air forks worth, white and pretty much immaculate ? I could then buy an un-cut/longer stem forks to replace them with. The only issue with this plan is that this then starts costing me money... which is not a road i wanna go down as it's not my fault the frame has broken. Obviously it's not Evans's fault either...

4. Get a new Commencal Super 4 frame.... Hmmmm. Can't say i'm really feeling this plan at all.


At the moment i'm not sure what the best plan is. Waranty bloke in the shop who wasdealing with it is out until Monday AM.

weeksy59

Apparently my current steerer length is 190mm and about 10mm too short. So i need a steerer of 200-210 or so.

Other option is a lower height stem ? Does anyone do a low height steerer stem ?

biff55

dmr swarm stem on crc looks like it could save you at least 10mm on stack height.
i'd be tempted to go this route as well rather than the hassle / expense of changing forks.

weeksy59

biff55 wrote:

dmr swarm stem on crc looks like it could save you at least 10mm on stack height.
i'd be tempted to go this route as well rather than the hassle / expense of changing forks.

potentially a great idea mate. Bloke in Evans can't make any promises that it would do the job, but it would deffo be in with a good chance of resolving the problem.

I'm a little undecided what to do at the moment. But at the end of the day, i may as well wait until Monday when Evans bloke who's been dealing with it is back and we'll see what his suggestions are.

At the end of the day, if i keep the BMC frame i'm already losing out on my e-13 SRS system that i like running because of incompatibility. However i am gaining slightly going from a Float R rear to a RP2.

Hmmmmm

diy

I don't think its unreasonable to ask evans to supply the additional parts at cost, given this is a quality, warranty claim.

You'd still be within your rights to rescind the original contract and ask for a refund, less adjustment for benefit. That would leave them with a bunch of parts and no sale. One of the principles of contract law is that allowing a party to perform remedy does not remove your right to the original contract.

So you could get to the point where everything had been build up and still reject the bike.

weeksy59

diy wrote:

There are really two different parts of consumer rights that offer protection. On the one hand you have an item that might not be fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality. Obviously they need to fix that. But these rights wont get you as far as getting a full refund. You'd be unlikely to win back more than 60-70% of the value paid, due the benefit that you have received.

In order to fully reject the goods, you are basically saying that they did not meet the description, and as a result you hold them in breach and are rescinding the contract. You'd return the bike and probably then have to sue Evans for a refund. I suspect they would argue some sort of abuse and the judge would be clueless as to if it was poor design or not.

If you found a common fault on the bike, with other owners making similar complaints, then you would probably have a stronger case to reject the goods, but its still wont get you all your money back.

I don't want a refund mate, i just want a machine that i can ride down a mountain once and every now and again and expect it to be usable the next time i go to it. The Commencal isn't filling me with confidence on that.

diy

edited while you were typing - I had not read the whole thread - sorry..

Ask for parts at cost, just because you don't want to reject the bike, doesn't prevent you from using it as a lever