185mm rotor v 203mm... Drastic difference?
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I've got 160 rear, 180 (185?) up front and riding down steps the back wheel normally locks on every drop, but I'd rather drag the rear than overbrake on the front and go over the bars.supersonic wrote:Braking is limited usually by tyre grip.
I was riding down a step of steep, large steps not so long back, and feathering the rear brake, but it locked very easy, almost pitching me over the bars! Too much power and no control is bad for me.
Having said that I feel slightly underbraked on the front and don't have enough power to lift the back wheel on the flat.
Does a bigger rotor give you better heat dissipation (and less fade) on long descents especially if you're carrying a bit?0 -
Yes, a big rotor can help with fade and heat dissipation.0
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With bigger rotors you'll get a bit more power, but the difference isn't as much as you'd imagine. How often do use the full power of your existing setup anyway??
Big discs are useful for reducing heat build up on long alpine descents, but I can't think of any descents in the Peaks which are long enough and steep enough for over heating to be an issue.0 -
I don't know about the peaks, but there definitely are descents in Wales where you have to be on the brakes to cover your speed pretty much the entire way. (Despite some people's belief that this simply can't be)MarkLG wrote:With bigger rotors you'll get a bit more power, but the difference isn't as much as you'd imagine. How often do use the full power of your existing setup anyway??
Big discs are useful for reducing heat build up on long alpine descents, but I can't think of any descents in the Peaks which are long enough and steep enough for over heating to be an issue.
Hell, there's even a road hill on my commute, with two really tight, blind hairpins, that climbs over 120 meters in less than half a mile, which ends up joining a main A-road. You don't want to be heading down that thing without keeping your speed in check.0 -
nicklouse wrote:Raymondavalon wrote:I then upgraded my Juicy 3's to Codes, that made a massive difference and allows me to now brake with [one fingered] confidence
I found the Codes to be Too much on the DH bike during a 2 week Uplift fest. so much so they were changed to something with a bit more control
Nic,
I am heavy at a shade over 200LBS and my bike isn't no lightweight either being an AM with additions like a Joplin & chunky tyres
The Codes made a world of difference compared to the Juicy 3's that were cobbled to the bike in the factory
I recent purchased some Elixirs for the new HT build and once again have opted for a 203/185 combo
I think that now that I believe that the 203/185 combo works for me, I don't foresee me ever running any other setup, irrespective of the caliper brand/model. Psycho semantic perhaps? :roll:0 -
I think it's more down to preference, Ray.
Some people, like you or I, prefer a brake with a very light action, and we find it preferable to moderate such a brake.
Others, like Nick, prefer a brake with a heavier action, and prefer the feel of modulation given with more lever pressure.
186mm rotors, given the right brakes, are definitely more than enough for alpine DH riding, in practice, but personal preference dictates quite heavily how light a lever action is preferred.
As for the Juicy 3s though, although they're nice little brakes, they're hardly the most powerful setup available.0 -
I'm Just Going To Politely Point Out Downhiller Steave Peat Uses A 160mm Up Front And A 140mm At The Rear. He Also Only Uses Three Bolts Instead Of 6 To Hold The Rotors To His Wheels...
Discuss0 -
He has balls of steel, and doesn't brake anywhere near as much as a normal person.Uchiga wrote:I'm Just Going To Politely Point Out Downhiller Steave Peat Uses A 160mm Up Front And A 140mm At The Rear. He Also Only Uses Three Bolts Instead Of 6 To Hold The Rotors To His Wheels...
Discuss
On top of that, he wants to get his race bike as light as possible.
End of discussion.0 -
plus extra power means you'll stop quicker, you don't want to stop in a dh race, better off with increased modulation and less power as you probably don't want much power when racing at that level.0
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My fuel ex7 came with 185s on either end , my 29er came with 160s so I swapped the rear 185 onto the front of the 29er. Rear braking wasn't noticbly different0
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Uchiga wrote:I'm Just Going To Politely Point Out Downhiller Steave Peat Uses A 160mm Up Front And A 140mm At The Rear. He Also Only Uses Three Bolts Instead Of 6 To Hold The Rotors To His Wheels...
Discuss
What's to discuss? Top pros don't need to brake as much as us normal people, they only need to complete one race run before the bike is rebuilt from the ground up, and they need to shave as much weight as possible for extra hundredths of a second. A number of riders run with little to no grease in their bearings for the same reason. What Peat and the other top pros do is largely irrelevant.
I run 203 Hope V2s front and rear and they are brilliant - never have a problem with modulation, and they work great in all conditions, whether I'm riding XC or doing an uplift day. Bigger rotors mean you can use less effort to brake, which is really important if you're doing DH runs all day or 20 minute alpine descents. Sure there's a slight weight penalty over smaller rotors but I'm not a racer so it doesn't matter.0 -
203 on the back, utterly pointless, but it's whatever makes you happy0
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Tell me why it's pointless.0
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I'm guessing he thinks that what applies to him applies to everyone.el loco pollo wrote:Tell me why it's pointless.
It's true that for most situations you'll never truly need 203mm on the back, but it's generally personal choice.
In some kinds of riding, it could be advantageous, I reckon. I'm thinking something like trials or street, where you need to lock the back wheel, with the least effort.0 -
It's totally a matter of taste, it's possible to be both too big or too small or too powerful or too weak for your own riding, both in style and terrain. So there
Also do remember it's not just power, different size rotors also react differently to heat, sometimes in fairly complicated and hard to predict ways.Uchiga wrote:I'm Just Going To Politely Point Out Downhiller Steave Peat Uses A 160mm Up Front And A 140mm At The Rear. He Also Only Uses Three Bolts Instead Of 6 To Hold The Rotors To His Wheels...
No he doesn't, that was for the world cup only as the track was less brakey. Go look at his bike pretty much anywhere else. Other things they did for that race was strip paint off some areas for weight reduction, and run oil instead of grease and no seals in the bearings to reduce drag, should we do that too
Uncompromising extremist0 -
My personal opinion kicking in here. But when i see someone riding cross country with 203mm discs that to me just shows they dont know how to ride properly... More often than not that is the general case. They think the bigger the better. Yes and no. Before being able to stop on a moments touch its actually all about gradual braking and being able to feel what it is you are doing. Setting up a set of brakes properly is going to serve you better than adjusting and getting the best set of brakes with the biggest set of rotors out on the market. Hell a proper set or set up V brakes will stop you better than a poorly set up, set of hydraulic disc brakes. Save the money and splash out on something else instead. Stick with 185mm. Even if i did down hilling i wouldnt go any larger than 185mm simply because 203 looks stupidly large on a set of push bike wheels. I know motorbikes which have a smaller size set of discs...
My point with showing that Steave Peat rides with small discs is actually my point about people learning
A) How to use brakes
That you can get away without the maximum size etc
C) How on earth did people cope when there was only V brakes and cantilevers available?
Anyway,
Uchiga Out.0 -
Uchiga wrote:My point with showing that Steave Peat rides with small discs is actually my point about people learning
A) How to use brakes That you can get away without the maximum size etc
C) How on earth did people cope when there was only V brakes and cantilevers available?
OK, so now you know that the small brakes were an uncommon thing for a specific event, where do you stand?
As for v-brakes and cantis, give us a break, you must realise that the riding has moved on surely? Go and try and ride down off beat at fort william with vbrakes or cantis and let us know how you get on It could be done, by a very skilled rider going very slowly. Uncompromising extremist0 -
I Stand by the 160,160 format i certianly would not go any larger than 180 or 185mm on the front. Rear brake will stay as 160 no matter what. Thats all you need in my opinion. I am by no means a good rider or exceptionally good. In fact quite the opposite i have plenty of space for imporvement. I do however go for quality rather than quantity so to speak. Anything i have i set up correctly. And then set it up better than that. I had a LBS give me my bike back after the first month of riding they set the brakes up etc and re adjusted the gear cable etc as they do. I jumped on my bike rode it down the street rode back and re adjusted everything till i was happy. This was when i had V brakes on my bike. I had set them up to the point i could stop in less distance than some of my friends with there fancy hydro discs. Like i say its more the set up than the kit itself. Of course having decent kit will mean it will be better. But having decent kit set up incorrectly to me seems like a waste of money.0
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Uchiga, can we hear a bit more about what you ride, what bikes you have the brakes attached to, where you take them?Uncompromising extremist0
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Uchiga wrote:My personal opinion kicking in here. But when i see someone riding cross country with 203mm discs that to me just shows they dont know how to ride properly... More often than not that is the general case. They think the bigger the better. Yes and no. Before being able to stop on a moments touch its actually all about gradual braking and being able to feel what it is you are doing. Setting up a set of brakes properly is going to serve you better than adjusting and getting the best set of brakes with the biggest set of rotors out on the market. Hell a proper set or set up V brakes will stop you better than a poorly set up, set of hydraulic disc brakes. Save the money and splash out on something else instead. Stick with 185mm. Even if i did down hilling i wouldnt go any larger than 185mm simply because 203 looks stupidly large on a set of push bike wheels. I know motorbikes which have a smaller size set of discs...
My point with showing that Steave Peat rides with small discs is actually my point about people learning
A) How to use brakes That you can get away without the maximum size etc
C) How on earth did people cope when there was only V brakes and cantilevers available?
Anyway,
Uchiga Out.
have you not read anyones reasons for using bigger discs? what makes you think a bigger disc means someone doesnt know how to use their brakes? also, what exactly is riding "properly"0 -
Northwind wrote:Uchiga wrote:My point with showing that Steave Peat rides with small discs is actually my point about people learning
A) How to use brakes That you can get away without the maximum size etc
C) How on earth did people cope when there was only V brakes and cantilevers available?
OK, so now you know that the small brakes were an uncommon thing for a specific event, where do you stand?
As for v-brakes and cantis, give us a break, you must realise that the riding has moved on surely? Go and try and ride down off beat at fort william with vbrakes or cantis and let us know how you get on It could be done, by a very skilled rider going very slowly.
He is correct that good Vs are better than poor discs. I can stop easily with my Vs with one finger, and in control. So it will be fine for what you say.0 -
For that sort of sustained heavy braking? Don't agree with that. Wouldn't do it with bad hydros either for that matter, I do agree that a good v-brake is better than a poor disc brake but that's a different issue. I've had good v-brakes and they're far better than most people assume, in the dry, when working right but they're not a patch on good hydros.Uncompromising extremist0
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Good is subjective, which is the whole point of this thread. If I am in control, than that is all that matters. I also have more adjustment for feel too.0
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Hmm, I'd agree with that too but "good" in this particular context- the really hard edge of what we ask from these bikes- isn't so subjective, I don't believe any of the v-brake setups I've used would perform adequately in those conditions. Perhaps in the perfect dry if everything's working exactly right but that's not realistic.Uncompromising extremist0
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On a DH bike they wouldn't be my first choice - discs are of course not affected by bent rims, and are indeed better in the wet. But on my XC hardtail, where I would be riding more carefully and slowly anyway, no qualms.
But the working correctly hypothesis can apply to discs too - endless questions about fade, heating up, bleeding problems, bent rotors, shuddering, set up, lever throw etc.0 -
Uchiga wrote:My personal opinion kicking in here. But when i see someone riding cross country with 203mm discs that to me just shows they dont know how to ride properly... More often than not that is the general case.
That says more about you than them.Uchiga wrote:They think the bigger the better.
And you're a mind reader. How do you know what they think?Uchiga wrote:Setting up a set of brakes properly is going to serve you better than adjusting and getting the best set of brakes with the biggest set of rotors out on the market. Hell a proper set or set up V brakes will stop you better than a poorly set up, set of hydraulic disc brakes.
Why are you assuming people with big brakes don't have their brakes set up properly? See my first point.
You admit you don't ride DH. You'd change your tune once your brakes cacked out after a few runs or your hands were so cramped from braking that you couldn't take them off the bars. To be honest mate you sound like a bit of a bellend.0 -
Think what you think about me like i said it was my opinion.
I ride Cross Country exclusively. On the road singlespeeding on a bike which is pretty much a mountain bike as well. I dont hang around on a bike. I've ridden down hills on a bike where sure 160mm brakes probably dont stop you instantly. But then i didnt need to. I only needed to slow down give me some more time to choose a line through the next section etc. At no point have i ever had a need to use my brakes on my bike on or off road to stop completely. Even on the road i dont stop completely. Set of red traffic lights im still rolling slowly to them. Track stand which even then means i creep slowly forwards.
Sure dont take me seriously when i say i ride Cross Country but it doesnt mean i dont have friends who ride other disciplines of off road riding. My brother cycles for Loughborough Student Cycling Club. I've been to a couple of races with him and meet some Sport, Expert and Elite category riders with him. And this doesnt stand at just cross country cyclists. I'm talking about road, 4cross, bmx and downhill as well as road. I've had a chance to talk to these people look at there bikes and get to know more about those disciplines of riding.
You cant trust everything you read online i know but i do read up on it i watch the UCI world cup and that usually means any discipline which is shown on Freecaster. I never belittle someones opinion without a very decent backup of knowledge. If i dont understand i often leave a topic and read up and research.
Like i still say personally. And might i just repeat that PERSONALLY part of the sentence... i would save the money stay with 185 and 160 and use the money for something else. Or even just save it. No point using money just cos you have it.0 -
Uchiga wrote:You cant trust everything you read online i know but i do read up on it i watch the UCI world cup and that usually means any discipline which is shown on Freecaster. I never belittle someones opinion without a very decent backup of knowledge. If i dont understand i often leave a topic and read up and research..
But you're placing your secondhand or worse knowledge ahead of other people's first hand experience, which is a bit of an iffy move IMO. Especially when some of it's so flawed, like you drawing conclusions based on "what steve peat uses".Uncompromising extremist0 -
i once spoke to chinnook pilot. this now means i can fly a a chinnook because a quick chat with someone makes me an expert.
also, my wife is a nurse so now i am a trained staff nurse like her.0 -
I never drew an opinion on what Steve Peat rides with that was an example... Call it bad humour if you will. Second hand experience? No i'm taking experience from first hand and repeating it to someone else. May be second hand but it must have been first hand at one point no? I didnt change anything ive learnt or been taught from these people by adding my own twist of knowledge to it. Sure it can be risky to give out second hand opinion. But i never say "You must follow my advice." It seems that some people here can be quite pushy about there advice. Some people here seem to me like people with more money than sense. However i may be completely wrong about both of those. It just comes across to me that way. i may seem pushy but i always say that it is that persons descion at the end.0
