Lloydy on doping in the 70s

morstar

colint wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

dodgy wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

You are confusing Chorley with Wigan...

Anyway,
I like the way how he quotes a powertap as being 1500 quid plus or minus. Mine was cheaper than the iBike new and I can use it on the turbo. It doesn't use guesswork either!

Yep, and the others are confusing Wirral with Liverpool. Dave Lloyd lives on the rather leafy and desirable west coast of the Wirral - not Liverpool

Desirable Wirral...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TIagabESl4

He said west Wirral, but don't let the points of compass spoil you're link posting.

Ouch, apostrophe abuse.

colint

oops, edited

Homer J

John Lloyd, that's who i was thinking of :roll:

RichN95.

Homer J wrote:

John Lloyd, that's who i was thinking of :roll:

There was a tennis player called David Lloyd too. He's John Lloyd's brother and set up the David Lloyd tennis and fitness centres. So you were right.

BikingBernie

dodgy wrote:

the others are confusing Wirral with Liverpool. Dave Lloyd lives on the rather leafy and desirable west coast of the Wirral - not Liverpool

He was born in Liverpool though, wasn't he?

colint

BikingBernie wrote:

dodgy wrote:

the others are confusing Wirral with Liverpool. Dave Lloyd lives on the rather leafy and desirable west coast of the Wirral - not Liverpool

He was born in Liverpool though, wasn't he?

I think so, although it probably says he descended from cycling heaven on his website

dodgy

No, undesirable Birkenhead.

shockedsoshocked

A quick ask on the club run with riders who rode alongside, against and for him (at B.E.A) found that not only is he very unpopular but he also seems to be lying about his apparent cleanliness.

andyrr

Re Dave's piece on the BP website, I'd maybe argue slightly against his point (ignoring for now as to whether he was a genuine non-doper or not as is now being flagged up) - what he writes there (as opposed elsewhere and what some say the training advice he hands out) to me indicates that he was someone that could actually take the super-heavy training and racing punishment and come out of it stronger. A heck of a lot of *good* riders, pros or hope-to-be pros, start to suffer and get ill etc when subjected to the levels of seriously hard riding that he undertook. Especially back then when pros would ride just about every race going, especially those not dedicated leaders, they'd ride early seson races, spring classics, GTs etc andwould be expected to be in the mix, doing thenecessary for the team otherwise their place was at risk. What Dave writes indicates that without medical assistance he was coping fine, throw other lesser hopefuls into the same situation and they may start to struggle and it's then that the greatest temptation to start taking drugs just to "keep up" may be greatest.

My thoughts anyway.

Cleat Eastwood

I think he is a mock scouser (ie from ove rthe water.) He used to ride with the now defunct Kirkby CC (just by me), I used to see him racing round the industrial estate where, coincidentally, there was a chemical plant. So maybe he was a clean rider, he just used to take deeper lungfuls of whatever body enhancing toxins were being spewed out, cos, believe me some of the women went in the factory blonde and came out brunette, bearded and beer bellied.

Anonymous

colint wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

dodgy wrote:

the others are confusing Wirral with Liverpool. Dave Lloyd lives on the rather leafy and desirable west coast of the Wirral - not Liverpool

He was born in Liverpool though, wasn't he?

I think so, although it probably says he descended from cycling heaven on his website

Heh heh...

BikingBernie

colint wrote:

I spoke to Lloyds about a training plan a few years ago, the gist of it was to go out and bury yourself riding every day. Not exactly the most scientific approach and definitely not worth £120 a month. He seems to have a weird chip on his shoulder, more interested in seeing riders suffer than improve.

I get that impression as well. The optimal training effort is the one that promotes maximal adaptation whilst allowing for recovery before the next training effort is made. All this 'hammering yourself for 4 hours is good, and hammering yourself for six hours is even better' stuff is egocentric nonsense and is most likely to lead to fatigue, de-motivation and chronic over-training. It also likely to result in performances when racing that are well below your potential due to fatigue. Training intelligently and racing to your limit is the way to progress. In the winter especially one's 'training ego' needs to be put on hold, allowing others to ride away if they want to whilst you recuperate and build some solid base in preparation for the 'real' training later on.

Murr X

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

A quick ask on the club run with riders who rode alongside, against and for him (at B.E.A) found that not only is he very unpopular but he also seems to be lying about his apparent cleanliness.

Thanks for your input here. What you have just said doesn't surprise me regarding his cleanliness... or popularity.

If he doped and admitted to doing so it would probably have negative effects on his business. It is in his interests to appear whiter than white and outspoken on doping, especially when trying to gain potential clients reading the article at Bikepure.

As I mentioned in my previous post he has not been a particularly honest man, at least when it comes to money.

My $0.02


Murr X

FransJacques

RichN95 wrote:

Homer J wrote:

John Lloyd, that's who i was thinking of :roll:

There was a tennis player called David Lloyd too. He's John Lloyd's brother and set up the David Lloyd tennis and fitness centres. So you were right.

There was a TV show called SuperDave in the early 90s in the states. Maybe you thought of this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Dave_Osborne

So who (in terms of a household name) does Lloyd train? Anyone your average UK cyclists and pro-scene follower would have heard of?

Homer J

FransJacques wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Homer J wrote:

John Lloyd, that's who i was thinking of :roll:

There was a tennis player called David Lloyd too. He's John Lloyd's brother and set up the David Lloyd tennis and fitness centres. So you were right.

There was a TV show called SuperDave in the early 90s in the states. Maybe you thought of this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Dave_Osborne

So who (in terms of a household name) does Lloyd train? Anyone your average UK cyclists and pro-scene follower would have heard of?

Super Dave Osborne? Sounds like a wrestler from the 70's,

DaveyL

FransJacques wrote:

So who (in terms of a household name) does Lloyd train? Anyone your average UK cyclists and pro-scene follower would have heard of?

On his website, it says he coaches Wendy Houvenaghel (or if you're Hugh Porter, Wendy HOOFenaggle). Which surprised me, since she's an Olympic medalist.

Splottboy

I and my Organisation were helping/coaching a local Junior rider, with pushy parents.
I took him to various training camps, courses, races etc for many months.
Free cousrse, accomm, food etc.

They decided they then wanted a "PRO" to coach him, so asked me if I minded, and I said "No, of course not."

Later, I looked at the "Pro's" programme for the young lad, and it wasn't that different to what I had been recommending/suggesting.

All my and the Organisations advice was FREE, the "Pros" was around £30 per week, £120 per month.

Question: Guess who the "PRO" was ???!!!
I'll give you 1 guess...

Anonymous

Splottboy wrote:

I and my Organisation were helping/coaching a local Junior rider, with pushy parents.
I took him to various training camps, courses, races etc for many months.
Free cousrse, accomm, food etc.

They decided they then wanted a "PRO" to coach him, so asked me if I minded, and I said "No, of course not."

Later, I looked at the "Pro's" programme for the young lad, and it wasn't that different to what I had been recommending/suggesting.

All my and the Organisations advice was FREE, the "Pros" was around £30 per week, £120 per month.

Question: Guess who the "PRO" was ???!!!
I'll give you 1 guess...

Dr. Ferrari?

Splottboy

No, Ferrarri's was THE cake shop in Cardiff to got too.. 70's/80's.

Apple turnovers, jam doughnuts, cream horns, made-to-order-birthday cakes etc.

Don't think they made Sports cars or sold Sports "Enhancement" Products though...

Other good one, "Nan's Pantry", Splott. You could buy "day-old" bread rolls on the way to school, for a PENNY each, and I mean the OLD pennies. Warmed-up too. Mmmmmmmmmm....

Anonymous

Mmmmm. Cake.

Nicoppi

When I was very, very young I was marshalling my club's road race. Organisation was running late so we were dropped round the circuit by car. It was pouring with rain and I was stuck in the middle of nowhere with no bike. Bunch came past a couple of times I dutifully pointed at the turn, they knew the course, no problem. Next lap Mr. Lloyd is off the front, I point off he goes. Following lap, he's still off the front and on his way to winning and this time I don't point (I was very cold and wet), but give him the Allez! Allez! on his way to victory. He then gives me a mouthful for not directing him as to the correct turn!

I checked out his website... he mentions his participation in the 1975 Paris-Roubaix... "Jan (Raas) was a great mentor for me and gave me a lot of help. We worked well together and finally entered Roubaix Stadium ... What a reception and what a feeling. I got carried away a bit as I was really a novice still. I bent down to do my toe-straps up tighter for the "sprint". Jan came alongside and said, "Dave, don't sprint!" Wise words, as you don't sprint for 22nd place" Except he wasn't "sprinting" for 22nd it was for 38th. Why BS about minor places, its an achievement enough to just finish the race FFS?

DaveyL

I don't know whether Lloyd was clean or not during his racing days, but for me this does raise a broader issue with the Bike Pure organisation. There seems to be a constant stream of riders signing up to Bike Pure, but I would like to know what their credentials are as clean cyclists- how does Bike Pure know they are clean, other than taking their word for it? The cynic in me would say that it seems like a fairly easy way for a rider to gain a bit of "anti-doping credibility".

I know Myles of Bike Pure occasionally posts on here so I would be interested to hear his views on this.

The Other McHoy

DaveyL wrote:

I don't know whether Lloyd was clean or not during his racing days, but for me this does raise a broader issue with the Bike Pure organisation. There seems to be a constant stream of riders signing up to Bike Pure, but I would like to know what their credentials are as clean cyclists- how does Bike Pure know they are clean, other than taking their word for it? The cynic in me would say that it seems like a fairly easy way for a rider to gain a bit of "anti-doping credibility".

I know Myles of Bike Pure occasionally posts on here so I would be interested to hear his views on this.

Back in the days when Lloyd raced I imagine that testing was absolutely minimal and completely ineffective. The greats who he on occasion raced against, such as Mercx, spent most of the year racing with little or no breaks between events. Although the world was a more innocent place then, continental racing was not. It is well documented that all sorts of pills and potions were taken to allow the riders to compete day after day.

If a rider was winning regularly and with relative ease while fulfilling a demanding race schedule then it would be hard not to be suspicious. If most of the other riders were taking something that added 5-10% on to their performance what chance would you have outwith the occasional one-day super effort when you were at your absolute peak.

One of the areas where the referred article loses touch with reality is when Lloyd infers the drugs the riders were taking were not performing enhancing, that it was more like a placebo effect. I quote:

"I believed then, and still believe today that most riders take dope “just in case” or “because everyone else is on it”. They use it as a crutch, when really they could do just as well without it."

This is clearly not the case. The riders took drugs then because they worked. No way could you do just as well without them. They masked pain, they reduced inflamation, they speeded up reactions, they packed you full of adrenalin etc. etc. etc.

You only have to look at the current TdF performances to see what happens when drugs become less prevalent. All of a sudden supermen are brought back down to earth with a bump.

mrushton

was it Bugno who said that when he saw riders with 'fat asses' going up mtns like aircraft then he knew how well the drugs worked and when Boardman joined the peloton he recalled that he would come to a climb and riders around him just moved down a sprocket and climbed easily and he didn't want to be a part of that

RichN95.

mrushton wrote:

was it Bugno who said that when he saw riders with 'fat asses' going up mtns like aircraft then he knew how well the drugs worked and when Boardman joined the peloton he recalled that he would come to a climb and riders around him just moved down a sprocket and climbed easily and he didn't want to be a part of that

It was Lucho Herrera that said that.

Splottboy

"Fat asses" eh? That means my Mrs would be "Queen of the Mountains" !!!

( Please...don't tell her I said that. She'll bloody kill me dead!)

calvjones

Splottboy wrote:

"Fat asses" eh? That means my Mrs would be "Queen of the Mountains" !!!

( Please...don't tell her I said that. She'll bloody kill me dead!)

See boy, you should have married a Taff. None of them have big asses*





* yes, my Mrs occasionally reads this over my shoulder

oldwelshman

Mine must be the exception then !

Splottboy

She is a TAFF, like me!
Neath born, brought up in a posh part of Newport ( They do exist! )

She teaches aerobics/fitness, to balance the 3 HUUUUGGGGGGE glasses of wine she has every night she's off work, LOL!!! ( I'd be totally pissed if I drank that much!)

Back to the thread, Batman. Never met him, but Lloydy sounds like a bit of a Legend in his Own Lunchtime, BUT...He has, "Been there, raced that," so hats-off to him for that.

No_Ta_Doctor

Sounds like it should be the start of a smutty joke... "There were three Welshman in a pub, and they started discussing the size of their wives' arses...."


I've deliberately avoided any mention of the word wool. Oops.