"pros" in helmets

wyadvd

this link especially telling and in my opininion very scientifically presented at least:

http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/uktrends.pdf

wyadvd

i havent been a$$ed to read the entire thread ....

but even if helmets were effective at physically preventing injuries from an impact at any speed at all, I believe a very important factor that has not been discussed here is driver and cyclist atitudes to percieved risks while helmets are seen to be/ are being warn.

the precieved risk or inperviousness of the rider wearing a helmet has been proven to influence motor vehicle driver behaviour around cyclists (as has rider gender when this is obvious!) I also believe it makes less experienced cyclists (the majority lets face it) more risk taking in their cycling.

the serious research on the actual effects of helmet wearing appear to show that as helmet wearing increases, perversely so do cyclist head injuries!

wyadvd

this is the only thing that convinces me to wear a helmet:

http://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/s ... negligence

wyadvd

oh another little stat i read somewhere is that if all the motorists and peds in the world wore helmets it would almost certainly save more lives than a law making it compulsory for all cyclists to wear one. apparently if a motorist has a head on collision it is almost 100% that he will suffer a head injury on the dashboard of some sort. a very small proportion of cycling injuries are head injuries. most are wrist and hip. dont remember where i read it though so it might be b%llux

[Deleted User]

This my be a generalastion but most of the people I see who DONT wear a helmet round were I live are chavs(riding in joggy bottoms), Drug dealers(who deal on the street) and kids who really shouldnt be on the main roads, as there either up and down the pavemnet or jumping red lights. :evil:

Maybe its just the city I live in but to be frank you look more out of place on busy roads without the right gear on nowdays, pros wear them in a cycling so do the right thing wear a helmet for the right look and obviously the saftey.

My I also add that I have conducted extensive market reserch and carried out scientific analysis to come up with the well rounded and factual statment you read above.

wyadvd

the best Shibolith for a chav is someone who forms an opinion on something as important as their own safety without first having looked at the scientific evidence one way or the other. For me wearing a helmet should be the icing on the cake. Learn to ride safely in traffic first and when you can do that , then fret about whether a helmet makes any difference to your safety.

the evidence is that as helmet use increases, so head injuries amoungst cyclists also increases. seems wierd I know but study after study in just about every civilised country in the world shows this.

wyadvd

shibboleth is the correct spelling sorry

wyadvd

you get a better clas of forum on the ctc website!

[Deleted User]

Did you parsimonious to say clas or class?, also I think you have used the word "shibboleth" out of lexicon with your interlocution.

greasedscotsman

wyadvd wrote:

the evidence is that as helmet use increases, so head injuries amoungst cyclists also increases.

Apart from the one you quoted earlier...

http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/uktrends.pdf

which says in makes no difference. Statistic, eh?

wyadvd

conclusion from the figures 1986-1996 in London: pasted from study:



Greater London has probably the largest incidence of helmet use by cyclists in Great Britain. Over the
decade to 1996, wearing rates rose from close to zero to about 40 per cent.
The number of cyclist fatalities in Greater London1 has fallen in most years since 1981 (Figure 4), the
continuation of a trend from previous years. Serious injuries, on the other hand, show no clear trend,
but have increased in total number since 1994.
As for Great Britain, the severity ratio provides a fairer way to assess trends independently of the
number of people cycling. For cyclists (Figure 5) there has been no improvement on the severity ratio
of the early 1980s and, indeed, the seriousness of casualties has increased since 1994.
The trends in fatalities, serious injuries and severity ratio for Greater London show no evidence of
influence by the increased wearing of cycle helmets. Indeed, serious injuries (both in total and as
reflected by the severity ratio) increased noticeably during the period of greatest helmet take-up.
It may, of course, be that some mitigating factor is cancelling out benefits achieved through helmet
use. In this context it is instructive to consider the severity ratio in Greater London for pedestrian road
casualties (Figure 5). This shows a trend very similar to that for cyclists. However, since 1985 the
average seriousness of pedestrian casualties has decreased more than that for cyclists, and the severity
ratio has not increased since 1994. Clearly, pedestrian trends have not been influenced by the wearing
of helmets.

greasedscotsman

From the same report...

Examination of cyclist casualty data for Great Britain, Greater London and Cambridge shows no evidence of any reduction in serious injuries despite a large increase in helmet wearing by cyclists since the mid 1980s.

So seems like the guy writing the report can't make his mind up?

wyadvd

this made me laff:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=5261

greasedscotsman

Hmm, looks a bit silly to me, I'd rather have one of these!

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/10/au ... rists.html

Ollieda

Is it not possible that the amount of cyclist head injuries could have increased due to more people cycling? I might be wrong but I would certainly imagine that there are more people out cycling on the roads today as opposed to 1986 when your quoted study starts.

wyadvd

thats why the main measure is not the absolute number of injuries or fatalities, but the severity ratio, which takes account of the popularity of cycling as a possible cause for figures changing.

wyadvd

the fact is that this ratio is in fact falling but by a much smaller percentage than the number of cyclists who have started using helmets of the last 15 years or so...helmet useage has gone from zero to half of all cyclists in this time!

bompington

I haven't been on this forum for a couple of days, are wyadvd's 207 posts all on this thread?

morstar

So many variables!!! Stats hey?

Blackpool Nocturne last night, one rider nicely planted the top of his head onto the thick upright of and end on crash barrier. Not making any claims for the helmet but I'm fairly sure it aided his comfort last night.

I'm neutral on the issue but find some of the arguments used by people in entrenched positions to be quite alarming.

I reckon in the last 18 months, (having ridden road bikes for 20+ years) I've gone from hardly wearing one to almost always wearing one. Probably more to do with family and kids and all that. In all probability it will make little difference to my life one way or another but just on the off chance...

oldwelshman

sub55 wrote:

freddiegrubb wrote:

:oops: Possibly to finish the discussion!!! Once upon a time I knew 3 cyclists, ( and many more ) , these 3 all died of head injuries in differant accidents. Now my daughter was giving me stick about not wearing a helmet, she's an ICU. nurse & was nursing 2 cyclists with head injuries. I visited the doctor & casually asked him "how thick is your skull"? he answered "it's not the thickness that counts it's the quality of the bone" . Needless to say I now wear a helmet, times have changed & I've seen enough of life to know that you don't bounce when you hit the deck, you may like to think you do. End of !!!!!!!!!!

but you dont get it. its not the thickness of your skull that kills you, its de-exceleration and
your brain clobbering the inside of your skull that kills you. this is why helmets dont work.
if the impact is severe enough to kill you , you`r a gonna , whether your wearing one or not.

If that was the case there would be many boxers dead by now surely? Helmets are compulsory for amateur boxers but bnot pros, that probably why you see more punch drunk ex pros!
Anyway as someone else mentioned you have CSF fluid in brain to cusion the brain against the skull, and a helmet will have a similar cusion effect during impacts.
I used to work in a coal mine where helmets were also compulsory and no questions asked.
I wear helmet pit of choice and would have no issue if compulsory or not.