"pros" in helmets

amaferanga

KingCustard wrote:

I've always taken the view that if I wasn't wearing a helmet & come off my bike for whatever reason, & hit my head to the extent that an ambulance is required - that ambulance can't be responding to someone else. If I'd worn my helmet that ambulance could be responding to a call elsewhere & potentially saving someone else's life. I personally think that's worth it.

Ah so you wear a motorcycle helmet?

louthepoo

these topics really bring out the sarcastic child in people!

anto164

amaferanga wrote:

Bunneh wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

anto164 wrote:

Yes they are.. I always stand beside you should wear a helmet whenever you're on a bike. FULL STOP.

Do you wear a helmet when you're in a car or walking down the street?

Not quite the same thing though In a car you're much safer than you are on a bicycle. Same goes for walking, you're not exactly going at break-necks speeds down a techical single track with branches jutting out.

Well according to this US report per-mile fatalities are considerably higher walking than they are cycling. It also notes that most cycling and walking fatalities occur in collisions with vehicles i.e. the sort of collision where a helmet will make little if any difference.

FWIW I sometimes wear a helmet. I'm smart enough to make the decision for myself based on the available EVIDENCE.

I said that, and i should have included this, because i'm from a MTB background, ridden montain bikes for the last 8 years, sometimes competetively, mostly not. Helmets have saved my life a couple of times, then again, so have spine protectors. I've managed to shatter a couple of helmets into a couple of pieces before, and still walk away, albeit with a headache. Sure, being on a road bike isn't going to take you through a section of boulders as big as your head for the next 100m, or through technical sections of stumps in the woods, but there are always going to be hazards that will mean that if you're going to come off, you can hurt yourself. 9 times out of 10, wearing a helmet isn't going to do anything for the injuries that you're going to get, but that 1 time out of 10, what if you spin round on the floor and go head first into the kerb? what's going to save you? Your hair? (I doubt many people here has much of that anyway )

At the end of the day, people are and people aren't going to wear helmets, it's up to them, and if they come off, then they'll probably be ok. personal choice at the end of the day. No-one is going to force helmets onto people that don't want to wear them.

SBezza

bompington wrote:

@SBezza ("plenty of older guys") & cougie ("how many cyclists post war"): this is a classic "My great auntie smoked 60 a day and lived to 95" argument. And just a thought - could it be that roads are more dangerous places to be these days? More, faster and bigger cars, more aggressive drivers, more street furniture (what did for me on one of the occasions below - road constriction that I just didn't see in the dark & pishing rain)

Again this is quoted, if you get hit by a vehicle, generally a helmet is the least of your worries. Helmets do not stop injuries to the rest of a very delicate body do they.

Helmets may or may not help stop concussion, but it is highly unlikely you will get concussion in every accident.

Do I think my helmet will help much if I come off at 25+mph and hit my head hard, well NO, it isn't designed for that sort of impact. It might help stop road rash on my head, but I doubt it will help much more than that. Until there is conclusive evidence to prove that a cycle helmet actually stops head trauma, they should not be compulsory, and people shouldn't force their views on others. If you think there is a benefit then fine, but don't moan at others that have a different view.

I actually wear my helmet for 99% of my cycling, I might not wear one for the very odd occasion I am cycling around with my lad at a very slow speed, and coming off is not likely or an issue. But I don't over estimate what one will actually do in a big accident.

Pross

A lot of people seem to somehow state a helmet saved their life and this seems to be on the basis that their helmet broke in a crash. They are designed to do that and are only a piece of polystyrene, it doesn't necessarily follow that you would have been killed or seriously injured just as in a lot of car crashes these days the car looks a right mess due to the crumpling even if the crash itself was really quite minor. I wear mine all the time (nowadays) as it just feels natural and, although it may not be a benefit, it isn't a problem to wear it so why take a chance but that's just my choice.

sub55

you lot seem to fall of an awful lot :shock:

tarquin_foxglove

amaferanga wrote:

Ah so you wear a motorcycle helmet?

Following my similar comment, I did a quick scan of the relevant standards (EN 1078 for bikes & EN 22.05 for motorbikes) expecting motorbike helmets to face more stringent tests, higher impacts speeds etc and they do, but not by as much as I was expecting.

A motorbike helmet has to survive 5 impacts compared to 2, the headform weights (3.1kg to 6.1 kg) are the same, however the speed of the impacts are only 19mph for motor bikes & 12mph for bikes which seem awfully low considering the speed you'd normally be traveling at.

A comment in this article mentions that that "Cycle helmets are primarily designed for falls without any other vehicle involved" and goes on to say "the QC ... tried repeatedly to persuade the neurosurgeons acting for either side, and the technical expert opposing me, to state that one must be more safe wearing a helmet than ... not.

All three refused to do so, claiming that they had seen severe brain damage and fatal injury both with and without cycle helmets being worn. Cycle helmets, in their view, were too complex a subject for such a sweeping claim."

So their considered opinion is that a cycle helmet will be fine for say, losing the front wheel on a patch of diesel but there are too many other variables to make a claim about anything else.

Pross

That quote from the article is reassuring as my main concern if I don't wear a helmet is I get knocked off and suffer severe brain injury, the guilty party gets taken to court and my family get a reduced payout as my lack of helmet is used as a reason to make me x% culpable and reduce the payout accordingly. I still won't take that chance though.

secretsqizz

sub55 wrote:

you lot seem to fall of an awful lot :shock:

Yes can we have the considered views of an octagenarian+ decrying the abysmal bike handling skills of the young and wobbly.

greasedscotsman

SBezza wrote:

Do I think my helmet will help much if I come off at 25+mph and hit my head hard, well NO, it isn't designed for that sort of impact. It might help stop road rash on my head, but I doubt it will help much more than that. Until there is conclusive evidence to prove that a cycle helmet actually stops head trauma, they should not be compulsory, and people shouldn't force their views on others. If you think there is a benefit then fine, but don't moan at others that have a different view.

I actually wear my helmet for 99% of my cycling, I might not wear one for the very odd occasion I am cycling around with my lad at a very slow speed, and coming off is not likely or an issue. But I don't over estimate what one will actually do in a big accident.

So you wear a helmet when riding over 25+ mph even though you don't believe it will help you, but you don't wear one when riding with your lad, at very slow speed? The kind of speed a helmet is designed for and "might" help you if you come off.

Butterd2

Coming from an MTB background I always wear a helmet and gloves, i just feel wrong without them. I will occasionally take the helmet off on a long hot climb but it goes straight back on for the decent.
I ride with a guy who does not wear a helmet because he "would not want to live like a cabbage". Whilst I don't really go along with his view it puts an interesting slant on the question. If we all agree that a helmet probably makes little difference at the speeds we generally travel at then is a helmet simply the difference between a quick death and a debilitating brain injury?

Off to have some happy thoughts now.....

hambones

At very low speeds when riding with helmetless children I have observed that some people, when they topple, stop themselves in such a way that they use their arms and hands....!!!!

ride_whenever

The way i see it:

helmets are designed for low speed impacts

cars go fast

rotational brain injuries may or may not exist

cars are fast




I'd always insist my children wear them until they can make their own decision, particularly when learning or off road as the probablilities are high of an impact occurring.

I always wear mine off-road, i fall off a lot and the helmet is likely to save me from rocks, branches etc.

On the road, i ride more safely with it off, i feel like i'm given more space, and the sorts of accidents i've had/am likely to have far exceed the remit of a polystyrene helmet. I feel i'm safer without one. Plus i really don't like the idea of rotational brain injuries that seem far more likely on the road at 20mph+

garryc

I always wear a helmet.

Even if I'm just pootling around the block after just fettling my gears and making sure everythings OK.

Would a helmet save my life or project me from serious injury?
I don't know.
Am I willing to take a chance to find out?
No

The choice is yours, I've made mine.

But as my mum always said, "Don't come crying to me when it all goes wrong"

fnegroni

I wonder if those who advocate to wear helmets actually wear it correctly, since several of the cyclists I meet who wear helmets don't seem to wear them correctly...

I don't want to wear a helmet, but I do wear it because I think for what it was designed to do, it might help.
I just am not under the wrongful impression that it will save my life.

And when it comes to advicing people about their own safety on bicycles, I always recommend they at least read Cyclecraft.

How many times I have heard friends say "I would never let my son/daughter ride without a helmet", yet have never:
a) tought them how to ride on the road
b) read them cyclecraft or sent them to advanced cycle training
c) actually done any of the above themselves.

And the ones more vehemently recommending helmets are the ones less likely to do any of the above, and when I see how they cycle, I immediately tell them that if they want to get killed they are doing great.

It is for me unbelievable the number of cyclists I know who don't know how to negotiate roundabouts, and would rather cycle on the pavement...

Safety should come first from within!

P.S.
Yes, by cyclists I am including even the ones who cycle occasionally, since regular commuters tend to be the vast minority of the people I know, yet helmet advocates seem to be the vast majority of the people I know.

rick_chasey

*insert obligitary purple helmet joke*

redddraggon

fnegroni wrote:

I wonder if those who advocate to wear helmets actually wear it correctly, since 99% of the cyclists I meet who wear helmets don't wear them properly...

Did you know 73% of people using statistics actually make them up

fnegroni

redddraggon wrote:

fnegroni wrote:

I wonder if those who advocate to wear helmets actually wear it correctly, since 99% of the cyclists I meet who wear helmets don't wear them properly...

Did you know 73% of people using statistics actually make them up

Fair point, let me correct my previous post.

redddraggon

SBezza

greasedscotsman wrote:

SBezza wrote:

Do I think my helmet will help much if I come off at 25+mph and hit my head hard, well NO, it isn't designed for that sort of impact. It might help stop road rash on my head, but I doubt it will help much more than that. Until there is conclusive evidence to prove that a cycle helmet actually stops head trauma, they should not be compulsory, and people shouldn't force their views on others. If you think there is a benefit then fine, but don't moan at others that have a different view.

I actually wear my helmet for 99% of my cycling, I might not wear one for the very odd occasion I am cycling around with my lad at a very slow speed, and coming off is not likely or an issue. But I don't over estimate what one will actually do in a big accident.

So you wear a helmet when riding over 25+ mph even though you don't believe it will help you, but you don't wear one when riding with your lad, at very slow speed? The kind of speed a helmet is designed for and "might" help you if you come off.

If you read properly, I said on the very odd, and it would be very odd, like I say 99% of the time I wear a helmet. If I come off at 6mph, I will let the bike fall and stand up, 6mph is not exactly much faster than walking is it.

rick_chasey

Oddly enough, when I tell people my purple helmet will save their life, I get slapped in the face.

whyamihere

Sometimes I'll wear one, sometimes I won't. Mountain biking, I always will, if only to protect me from low hanging branches which I seem to hit all the damn time. If it's a nice, warm day and I'm on the road, I rarely will.

on the road

I think it should be compulsary for all cyclists not to wear a helmet.

StillGoing

cougie wrote:

I started riding before the foam helmets were invented. Me and my mates got on fine. Sure we came off - but none of us came to any harm.

Guys in my club have been riding for 50 years or more - if they dont feel the need for helmets, then thats fine.

The most devout helmet advocates are people who have just taken up cycling and know no other way.

Cycling is not as dangerous as some people think - look at Holland and all their cyclists - hardly any wear helmets. Look at how many cyclists there were post war - did the streets run red with their blood ? By all means wear one if you want to, but I'd rather let people decide for themselves. All that BS of doctors or paramedics looking at a bust helmet and proclaiming it saved a life - it just is not credible. How would they know ?

Difference is the continent is more sympathetic to cyclists with the road infrastructure built to accomodate them. European drivers are more inclined to get out of the way and let a cyclist have priority whereas here they would nerf you off into the kerb at the blink of an eye. A colleague of mine was killed twelve months ago by the 2nd of two vans racing each other on a dual carriageway.Dead at the roadside. Now a helmet never saved him, but had the accident resulted in a lesser impact to the head, he may just well of made it. Without a helmet no chance at all. He was a very experienced cyclist.

I always wear a helmet and at 50 years old almost I grew up in the era of no helmets. But as someone who has raced motorcycles around a track at high speed and crashed them I know a helmet can save your life even in a low speed low side where just a glancing blow on the tarmac could cause a major injury.

prawny

I always wear mine, although it's pretty much only for the contributory negligence argument. I don't think that if I get hit by a car or hit a curb at 30mph it will help. I had a big crash in my teen where I crashed into a pile of concrete at about 30mph hit my head and knocked myself out and suffered no lasting damage.

I think there must be a really small window where wearing a helmet saves you from serious damage.

Regarding the motorcycle helmet testing, if you watch motorcycle racing it's surprising how small the head impacts are, i think there would be a lot more grazing than anything else, when a motorcyclist really takes a hit to the head they have no chance, read up on Craig Jones if you need an example.

In the end though I'd always recommend wearing a helmet, but I wouldn't recommend trustin one with your life.

greasedscotsman

SBezza wrote:

If I come off at 6mph, I will let the bike fall and stand up, 6mph is not exactly much faster than walking is it.

I've gone over the handlebars at that sort of speed. Got the front wheel caught in a drainage channel, just wished I'd thought of "standing up" at the time

Anyway, I'm off for a ride, now where did I put my helmet. I look daddy-o cool in mine 8)

father_jack

Crashed several times over christmas, went over the handlebars, slid off on oil whilst going round a roundabout, also front wheelpulled to one side on ice. Didn't hit my head, only a little bit when I went over the bars, but just a small blow probably as much as a tennis ball whacked at my head. I do have a helmet. If I were doing high speed runs I'd wear it more

anto164

On the hunt for some visually pleasing pics of women wearing helmets, i realised that people searched for some really weird things..

okgo

I don't wear one, never have, doubt I ever will (unless I have to for an event) that's my choice.

I've not come off once this year in over 2000 miles, I rode a big full susser jumping stairs, rivers and anything I could find for about five years, never wore a helmet, I was fine.

Its a choice, I seriously doubt the helmet is going to help much in most crashes, since its quite hard to hit the top of your head. Wear one if you like but don't go preaching to others if they don't.

Sgt_Pepper

okgo wrote:

I don't wear one, never have, doubt I ever will (unless I have to for an event) that's my choice.

Same here, I've fallen off many bikes many times, and the times i have hit my face/head i doubt a helmet would have made much of a difference, other than stop a few cuts and scratches.

I remember as a lad going over the local slag heaps, some of the drops must've been 75%+ and all we had for brakes were trainers on the back tyre. No one even thought about helmets then. Them were the days eh.