Bad news for the Cycle to Work scheme
Dunkindiver
Posts: 143
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So it should. If people want to ride to work then fine, but they shouldn't expect to be subsidised by the taxpayer.0
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Er, more cycle commuting reduces the costs to both the environment and the taxpayer incurred by this car-centric society - try and see the bigger picture :?Cressers wrote:So it should. If people want to ride to work then fine, but they shouldn't expect to be subsidised by the taxpayer.0 -
Yes but the bigger picture is one of individual choice, not the state trying to nudge people to follow 'accepted' modes of behaviour.0
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Unfortunately this "individual choice" is not available to all with equal measure, and when there is unfettered individual choice for the privileged, these individuals surprisingly, don't act in the greater good of society, rather they act with blinkered self-interest to the detriment of others, the future, and the planet. I am afraid these individuals cannot be trusted to do the right thingCressers wrote:Yes but the bigger picture is one of individual choice, not the state trying to nudge people to follow 'accepted' modes of behaviour.
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How much does it cost to get a reasonable commuter together, either a BSO for short journeys or an oldie-but-goodie for longer rides? Hardly beyond the means of most and hence no need for a govt subsidy. I was equally enranged when the govt wasted our money on the car scrappage scheme.0
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Why not? Governments frequently use punitive measures to discourage less desireable behaviour. Surely incentivising positive behaviours is a governments responsibility also. Carrot and stick are best used in equal measure.Cressers wrote:Yes but the bigger picture is one of individual choice, not the state trying to nudge people to follow 'accepted' modes of behaviour.0 -
It is about incentivising people to change their behaviour. The scheme has converted many drivers to cycle commuters, people who hadn't otherwise taken up the BSO/oldie but goodie option. As such, the scheme is a success. Furthermore, the BSO is probably one of the biggest disincentives to cycling.Cressers wrote:How much does it cost to get a reasonable commuter together, either a BSO for short journeys or an oldie-but-goodie for longer rides? Hardly beyond the means of most and hence no need for a govt subsidy. I was equally enranged when the govt wasted our money on the car scrappage scheme.
The car scrappage scheme was perhaps more dubious because although it was superficially suggested to be environmentally motivated (newer cars/lower emissions), it is likely that the gains were offset by the environmental costs of manufacturing new cars. It was more of an economic measure than an environmental one. In the scheme of things (!) I think the bike to work scheme, whilst not perfect, is far more laudable.0 -
These are very one dimensional arguments. The car scrappage scheme went against economic principles but it was a case of artificially supporting an industry that was prone collapse with terrible consequences. It would have cost you and I far more if it had gone belly up. Same reasoning that was applied to the banks. Unfortunately, the bankers seem to be carrying on as before and laughing all the way to the...Cressers wrote:How much does it cost to get a reasonable commuter together, either a BSO for short journeys or an oldie-but-goodie for longer rides? Hardly beyond the means of most and hence no need for a govt subsidy. I was equally enranged when the govt wasted our money on the car scrappage scheme.0 -
Cressers wrote:So it should. If people want to ride to work then fine, but they shouldn't expect to be subsidised by the taxpayer.
Cressers....
get a grip .... so you dont catch a bus or tube in London then because they are subsidised!
the cycle to work scheme was a relatively fair and very green promotion, and true I bet a significant percentage of the bikes bought dont go commuting, but then their owners possibly use then to keep fit with a benefit to the cash strapped and failing NHS in the longer term0 -
Hmm interesting. I got the feeling that the reason employers were setting the 'market value' nominal fee so low was because they don't really want to have a bicycle as one of their assets. I mean do the police really want to be having to sell second hand bikes?
What if people start rejecting the option of buying the bike at the end of the term? There's going to be alot of aggrevated employers out there with alot of bikes on their hands. Anyway this isn't going to happen after people have made the salary sacrifice.
But surely this points to an issue with the way HMRC have defined 'market value'. Would it not be reasonable to assume that there is no real market for these bikes (purchased on the scheme) beyond the employee taking up the option to pay the nominal fee at the end of their term. Even so it's a poor representation of a market. But why change it when it works? I mean surely the logic behind the HMRC definitions is that employers are tired of being ripped off by employee's who are only paying about 5% of the original price. But i see no evidence of this.
It looks like HMRC has an agenda for these new rule implementations. Pretty crappy really.
I do think the Scheme needs more regulation though. I mean you hear of people buying 1K wheelsets on the scheme. That's what needs tidying up. Surely it's no better than falsely claiming benefits. This is the real problem with the scheme.0 -
It does sound like some people are taking the pee to be honest.
Why should some lucky sods get tax free lovelies and I cant just because my stupid employer cant decide if they should join up or not ? Make it open to all of us would be fairer. (i may be biased and grumpy here though...)0 -
Cressers wrote:How much does it cost to get a reasonable commuter together, either a BSO for short journeys or an oldie-but-goodie for longer rides? Hardly beyond the means of most and hence no need for a govt subsidy. I was equally enranged when the govt wasted our money on the car scrappage scheme.
how did they waste money on the scrappage scheme?
they gave £1000 & the dealer gave £1000....
if you bought a car for £8000 the government got £1200 in vat (15% at the time) from that sale....0 -
the dealers cleverly put their prices up, so in a lot of cases they contributed very little. as someone who couldnt afford to buy a new car they wasted my money subsidising people who could afford one = waste. also it wasnt necessary given the life left in most of the scrapped cars = waste. if we were talking about british manufacturers going under we would have just said they deserve it. the scheme did ****all for the uk. it also was an environmental disaster.invincible wrote:Cressers wrote:How much does it cost to get a reasonable commuter together, either a BSO for short journeys or an oldie-but-goodie for longer rides? Hardly beyond the means of most and hence no need for a govt subsidy. I was equally enranged when the govt wasted our money on the car scrappage scheme.
how did they waste money on the scrappage scheme?
they gave £1000 & the dealer gave £1000....
if you bought a car for £8000 the government got £1200 in vat (15% at the time) from that sale....
i hope the cycle scheme comes to a rapid end as well.0 -
I don't think there should be subsidies for the latest exotic bits of carbon. Do people think its necessary to get people to bike to work? Go to the European cities like Amsterdam or Copenhagen where cycle commuting is hugely popular, the majority of bikes are low cost workhorses and over here in my experience the only people who used the scheme were those who were already into cycling in the first place.0
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Meh. When I see some of the things my tax pays for I ain't gonna begrudge someone a few hundred quid of tax relief on a bike. Especially considering the inevitable extra purchases generated.0
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Dunkindiver wrote:
Does this mean that those currently on the scheme will be paying a much higher final payment than anticipated?0 -
jim453 wrote:Dunkindiver wrote:
Does this mean that those currently on the scheme will be paying a much higher final payment than anticipated?
I've just got my FMV figure of £57.50 for a £1000 voucher so am quite relieved.
I think that the scheme has proven popular and therefore is costing the government more money than it anticipated (peanuts in the grand scale of things but even so)
This is just a way of quietly strangling the scheme to death without the politicos having to carry the can for scrapping a 'green' initiative and looking like hypocrites.0 -
Cycle to work scheme.....I know plenty who have hooked onto this.....more like I got me a nice bike for the weekend scheme..not wanting to rewin their nice new Carbon wheels.... and go to work on the old Hack0
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I'm still thinking that it won't be long until they scrap the entire scheme. I'm pretty sure there have been enough people abusing the scheme by buying their kids' bikes through it. Then again, it takes the retailers to be complicit in this dodge.To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.0
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Hmmm, maybe bang goes my CAAD10...0
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+1 on that, if the state allows for a benefit in the tax system, it is very unfair that its availability to the population should be decided by the whim of the individual employer. Same for nursery vouchers grr.. If an employer can administer PAYE, salary sacrifice schemes are hardly a major step change in admin.cougie wrote:It does sound like some people are taking the pee to be honest.
Why should some lucky sods get tax free lovelies and I cant just because my stupid employer cant decide if they should join up or not ? Make it open to all of us would be fairer. (i may be biased and grumpy here though...)
Having said that, I think people have taken the p*ss with the scheme - I know someone who got their LBS to creatively invoice them for a bike on the scheme but they left the shop with a nice pair of kysriums under their arm!
On balance, given its abuse, and the fact it is unequally applied, trash it I say. Maybe spread the love more fairly by reducing the VAT rate on new bikes instead....0 -
What do these this change mean?
We have to pay more (the person they are trying to encourage)!
More aggro for the employer from us (are they trying to put the employers off ?)
More chance the employer is left with the bike on there books.(Even more aggro for the employer from the accountants)
No extra taxes for the HMRC unless you have to pay VAT on the bike from your employer at the end?
Add this to the problems with the scheme to start with (my company use Halfords for some stupid reason
) ie you have to pay top price etc.
the scheme will be hardly worth it
It is almost as if they don't want to encourage the scheme!!!
It will probable mean less people buy a new bike for commuting and keep fit etc so the environment will louse out, NHS and will lead to no reduction in car usage.
All for what?
MORE TAXES!!!0 -
NapoleonD wrote:Hmmm, maybe bang goes my CAAD10...
and so it should IMHO.0 -
Sirius631 wrote:I'm still thinking that it won't be long until they scrap the entire scheme. I'm pretty sure there have been enough people abusing the scheme by buying their kids' bikes through it. Then again, it takes the retailers to be complicit in this dodge.
After much searching I found a Halfords employee who new what he was talking about with regards C2W. Things have been changed recently so that everything going through the till for a C2W voucher is audited. No more deposits to add to the voucher, no more unexplainable discounts on bikes, he even told me that if they sell a bike as damaged ex display for a discount they have to prove they couldn't get a new one from another branch.
Such measure must have been put in place to foil people buying bikes for their kids etc.Giant Escape M1....
Penny Farthing
Unicycle
The bike the Goodies rode
Pogo Stick
Donkey on Roller skates.......OK I'm lying, but I am down to one bike right now and I feel bad about it,0 -
Interesting that it's been noted that car companies inflated their prices to absorb the taxpayers' money thrown to pay them. I suspect that the cycle trade did the same.0
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Anyone know the actual figure of how much the tax break costs the treasury?What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0
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Watch for quite a few LBS to go, my local one says that over 40% are sold through the scheme. Maybe more effort should have gone in to checking people used the CTC scheme for the right reasons.0
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Cressers wrote:Interesting that it's been noted that car companies inflated their prices to absorb the taxpayers' money thrown to pay them. I suspect that the cycle trade did the same.
Is this guy a deliberate troll?<hr noshade size="1"><hr noshade size="1"><center><b>::::::: http://www.free-riders.co.uk :::::::</b></center><hr noshade size="1"><hr noshade size="1">0
