Home entertainment / console help - UPDATE 15th

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

But isnt PCM a lower sample rate 48KHZ as stored on most discs? and DD and all more in the region of 198khz?

Its been a real long time since i used to be an audio geek, and 2 Chan SACD is still my idea of the ultimate audio , But I do have an ok Truee HD set up, and there is definitely a more spacious sound to the HD sound track with slightly better postioning.

Erm, no. PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) is just a digital audio encoding method. It is the underlying format of nearly all (with the notable exception of DSD - direct stream digital) uncompressed audio formats... WAV, AIFF, BWF, SD2, PMX, SDF etc.
There is no upper limit to bit depth or sample frequency with PCM. The highest sampling rate I currently know of in use is 384KHz. Same goes for bit depth, there are all sorts of formats in use from 8bit, to 64-bit double.
And also it can have any number of audio channels.
Whilst BD films can theoretically support sample rates of up to 192KHz (and possibly beyond but I'm certain 192 is the maximum they HAVE to support) that doesn't mean they must have 192KHz on-disc. Also, this sample rate will be suppoted in any audio format the standards allow. However, most BD audio tracks are still commonly recorded at 48Khz, or 96KHz.
Given a 48KHz PCM audio stream, and a 192KHz audio stream, then the sonic differences become theoretical at best, in all but the very VERY highest quality listening rooms. And even then, the perceivable differences are debatable.
Some of the world's finest sound and mastering engineers still claim that a well created 44.1KHz stream is all we really need, whereas others, even though following the general belief, will state that no higher than 88.2KHz is needed.

The real reason that sound is of a higher quality on DVDs and BD is because much more use is made of dynamics. Whereas commercial CDs are sonically crushed to be as loud as possible, there is a strong practice in film audio of allowing the loud bits to be really loud, and the quiet bits to be really quiet. In fact, there are standards in place that govern recommended levels for various types of content in films, and as a rule, these are adhered to.
This subtlety in the use of dynamics is what gives that apparent "quality"
(the CD production world has been fighting a loosing battle for years to get the same dynamic range accepted on albums and singles, but all the customers and A&R want is to have theirs louder than the last band)

Thewaylander

ISnt that the Dynamic range?

DVD used that heavily early on to scare the crap outta people :P loud loud early parts, and quit talking so you turn it up and crap yorurself

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

But isnt PCM a lower sample rate 48KHZ as stored on most discs? and DD and all more in the region of 198khz?

Its been a real long time since i used to be an audio geek, and 2 Chan SACD is still my idea of the ultimate audio , But I do have an ok Truee HD set up, and there is definitely a more spacious sound to the HD sound track with slightly better postioning.

The positioning would generally be down to your amplifier's or decoder's phase coherency between the channels. (and the ability of your speakers to convey that, of course.)

SACD (DSD) is a curious beast. There is no current way to digitally process the signal, and to this day, AFAIK, Pyramix is the only system capable of handling more than two channel DSD audio, and mixing it to an output.

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

ISnt that the Dynamic range?

DVD used that heavily early on to scare the crap outta people :P loud loud early parts, and quit talking so you turn it up and crap yorurself

that's exactly what it is. It is a more natural sound because NOT EVERYTHING WE ACTUALLY HEAR AROUND US IT AT MAXIMUM VOLUME ALL THE TIME.
if you see what I mean
It more closely resembles real-life soundscapes.
I'm almost certain the sound level guidelines are the same for cinema as they are for BD, and the only difference on DVD was that the suggested base reference level was slightly different (but even that may be the same)

snotty badger

PS3 is a better all in one box. Couple it with Play TV to record Freeview and you don't need another box under your telly.

Penylope

Mr Cheese, just to throw a spaniel in the works, one of these would be a reasonable purchase for what you have in mind.

BluRay, 3D ready (with a firmware update) if thats your bag and 5.1 in a nice unobtrusive package. Just plug the Sky in through optical digital to get surround from that as well.

Had a demo in the local Sony centre a few weeks ago, picture and sound are fantastic for asystem of this type. Oh, and ignore the price on that webbo, it can be found for £330 without too much trouble.

Thewaylander

Ok did some research, Most DVD's don't include a PCM sound track.

And the compression rates are huge on DVD, the files for audio on Blu ray are the same size as DVD's on some of my films. thats some serious compression rates and loss.

nicklouse

Thewaylander wrote:

Ok did some research, Most DVD's don't include a PCM sound track.

And the compression rates are huge on DVD, the files for audio on Blu ray are the same size as DVD's on some of my films. thats some serious compression rates and loss.

not found any DVD with lossless PCM on it yet, DVDA excluded. (lossy PCM does not count).

I love these threads.

there is so much bull crap in it.

nicklouse

The Big Cheese wrote:

It is time for me to update my home entertainment kit.

So what did you get?

and have.

you asked about connecting it all. But did not mention the models.

basically everything want to go into the receiver and then one HDMI to the TV.

re the speakers try and keep them all the same so they have the same "voice" or you will not get a great sound but some noticeable points where the speaker differences make then stand out. But the better speaker should be the centre one.

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

Ok did some research, Most DVD's don't include a PCM sound track.

And the compression rates are huge on DVD, the files for audio on Blu ray are the same size as DVD's on some of my films. thats some serious compression rates and loss.

Curious, I've seen a lot of PCM soundtracks.
the greatest cause of the size discrepancy would be the extra formats supported simultaneously on BD.

Thewaylander

Nope as with the software i'm was using to look seperates the sound tracks, so we can keep the sections of our films we want to store them on our central server so we can pipe them to every room of the house.

HD DD tracks compared to the standard DVD ones are huge seriously

Anonymous

erm, what are you lot on about?

i know everything, literally everything, but i have no idea what you are all on about.

is this telly connected to a citrus fuit on a string?

also, where are the pictures of this new telly.

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

Nope as with the software i'm was using to look seperates the sound tracks, so we can keep the sections of our films we want to store them on our central server so we can pipe them to every room of the house.

HD DD tracks compared to the standard DVD ones are huge seriously

Hmm, I shall have a word with our DVD authoring guru. Looks like I've got the wrong end of the stick somewhere.

nicklouse

dont forget that PCM (LPCM) can be lossless and Lossy.

DVD is veryLossy and Blu-Ray and HD DVD had it Lossless.

Anonymous

PCM is the source for compression, you take PCM and then compress it to turn it into something else. In a similar vein to how you take an uncompressed bitmap image, and compress it to turn it into JPG.