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34 mile training loop what to eat - how to pace?

cheaperholidayscheaperholidays Posts: 151
Hi All

I have a training loop that is just over 34 miles, but what is the best thing to take with you to stop getting that sudden loss of energy sweating nausea .

I cover the first 15 miles in an hour then the remaining hilly section in just under 2 hours.

The bike is a specialized sirrus flat bar road bike.

Also is there a technique, when your spinning to stop pushing so hard and pacing yourself i am 51
We are an online travel agency.

Specialized Sirrus (converting to road bars) - Honda Fireblade.
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Posts

  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    edited August 2010
    Hi mate,

    I have something on the hour, each hour, works well for me. It's a case of experimenting!

    Try, for example, taking a banana and some flapjack out with you, have the banana on the first hour then the flapjack on the 2nd.

    As for not pushing yourself, that's just something you have to work on, let your legs be your guide.

    Alternatively you could try using a heart rate monitor and get a feel for what your heart rate does when you feel you have been pushing too hard. Then use that as a guide.

    But the main thing is just to keep on riding and enjoying yourself!!
  • Thanks NapoleonD

    I will give that a try, i just hate that feeling of suddenly no power, one minute your spinning away and next its gone.

    Some times in the past i have had to pedal for a minute then coast, this lasts for about 30 minutes, then you get some energy back...

    Thanks again

    Mike
    We are an online travel agency.

    Specialized Sirrus (converting to road bars) - Honda Fireblade.
  • danowatdanowat Posts: 2,877
    You shouldn't really need to take anything (bar maybe some water) with you on a 34 mile training ride, a good healthy diet should provide you with enough, maybe have a look at what you are eating and drinking on a daily basis?.

    Or maybe you are just going out too fast to start with?, I'd second the HRM idea, but they are only of real use if you know your true MHR.
  • I agree i think i am going out to fast and not pacing properly - a bit of bull at a gate mentality..

    I need to know or find out, what would be an ideal cadence and mile times to complete a 30 to 40 mile loop with something left at the end..
    We are an online travel agency.

    Specialized Sirrus (converting to road bars) - Honda Fireblade.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    For 34 miles, I wouldn't eat anything, though I suppose it depends on the amount of time this distance takes you. If you eat something about 2 hours before, you should be able to do it without food.

    If needs be for that boost, then a banana is good. I wouldn't worry about energy bars and the like though.
  • danowatdanowat Posts: 2,877
    I need to know or find out, what would be an ideal cadence and mile times to complete a 30 to 40 mile loop with something left at the end..

    Ideal cadence is personal, personally, I like spinning above 80rpm, others prefer mashing a lower cadence, you need to find what works best for you.

    As for mile times, again whats good for some, isnt for others, there are so many variables that would contribute (road surface, gradient, wind etc etc) that you are better to aim to something else.

    If you don't have an HRM as way of monitoring effort, then I'd suggest either, working out a P.E. scale (percieved effort) of about 1-10, 1 being static, 10 being balls out, and try working at 5, and see how you go, either that, or base it on your breathing, how laboured it is, obviously you don't want to be gasping for breath, I'd maybe suggest trying it at a level where you can manage a sentence without gasping (this for me is about low-mid aerobic level maybe 130-140bpm)
  • ut_och_cyklaut_och_cykla Posts: 1,594
    So you're taking about 3 hours to ride, riding hard adn running out of energy. Start topped up -food like 2 hours before as SBezza suggests - and rested from previous ride.
    Take first 20 minutes to build up speed /effort gradually. Then ride as fast as you think you can maintain - hard to know where this would lie and varies from day to day!
    Cadence is a personal thing - varied is usually comfy - slower on hills faster on the flat - perhaps between 70 (not lower) & 90 (higher might feel strange if you're a beginner)

    If you ride within your own limits you may not need food on your ride but if you feel you do AS NapD suggests eat every hour or perhaps every 45 minutes - If you're thirsty perhaps sip a drink of 1:1 fruit juice or an energy drink. Or eat real food - easily digested, low fat (fat slows down sugar uptake) - fruit, white bread jamsarnie etc.
  • Thanks danowat

    I think i will go out next time and do that same run at a slower cadence, coming from a long distance running background means i am never really out of breath except when out of the saddle on some of the climbs.

    Many thanks for your tips and advice

    Regards

    Mike

    My thought of the day will be "resist the urge to chase down that bike in front" lol
    We are an online travel agency.

    Specialized Sirrus (converting to road bars) - Honda Fireblade.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    For that kind of distance I'd just take a bottle of energy drink. I find I do my best times when I'm not trying to. I set out intending to go for a relaxed bimble, which means I warm up gently for the first 20 mins or so. That then means I feel good to go, and I just keep upping the pace gradually, and I can usually finish with a sprint!

    I tend to cycle at a cadence of 80-90 in a gear that requires only moderate effort.

    +2 on the advice to get a HRM; makes pacing a lot easier.
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    It's not the distance that's the issue - it's the TIME it takes.

    The OP says it's a 3 hour ride and isn't as fit as some of the other riders here. (I'd also have no food and just a bottle for a 3 hour fast ride - but his riding is different).

    Plus he does the first hour at 15mph - which isn't particularly fast so I don't think pacing is the issue.

    In my opinion, eating 2 hours before will not be sufficient to fuel a hard 3 hour ride!

    How about having something 30 mins before leaving? Or a banana as he goes out the door (this is in addition to the 2 hour pre-ride fueling).

    And an energy bar or banana for halfway through the ride?
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    I was looking at the time angle rather than the distance.

    I take nowt out on a 34 mile ride but for a 3hr ride I do...
  • Chris JamesChris James Posts: 1,040
    If I read your original post right then you are out on the bike for around 3 hours (15mph for first hour), 9.5mph ave for second and third hour? The last two hours being very hilly and you are probably out of energy too, to make things worse.

    IIRC your muscles have enough energy (glycogen) in them for around two hours. After that, depending on the effort you put in, you will start to run out of steam.

    So you need to top up your energy levels before the tank runs dry. Carbo drinks (eg powerade etc) or simply ½ fruit juice ½ water mix will give you easily digested fuel to keep you going longer before you run out of energy. Over time you will probably get better at using the energy you have in your muscles, and they will need less topping up.

    If I were you, I would take a couple of bottles of juice mix, a banana and maybe a flapjack or something. Keep drinking the juice little and often from the off, eat the banana after 90 mins or if you feel hungry. And keep the flapjack as a get you home joker.

    You may also be starting off a bit quickly, 15mh is a decent speed, but 9.5 mph ave is no great shakes. I would imagine you are getting tired, running out of energy and possibly a bit dehydrated by this point! I’d treat the first hour as a warm up and save your efforts for the hills.
  • da gooseda goose Posts: 284
    As stated by others if riding late morning after brekkie or other meal you shouldn`t need any food otherside a couple of fig rolls/banana easily digested.
    Dont worry too much about speed as you will be a tad slower on flat bar hybrids than full roadbike, advantage being you will burn more calories as less aero particularly into headwinds...as I do having ditched all the drops these days.
    More of a workout in less time...nice! :twisted:
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    edited August 2010
    Even for 3 hours, eating decent food 2 hours before should be enough to fuel the ride. Now I know we all go at different speeds and intensities, but even if I did a 3 hour tempo ride it would be without food, and generally only water (I do have energy drink some of the time). I would take something as a back up admittedly, but I doubt I would use it. Then again I hate eating on the bike, so only do it for rides of 4 hours plus really which as they are endurance rides I keep myself topped up.

    The OP did say he never gets out of breath apart from the hills, that suggests to me that it isn't that high an intensity. To be honest if lack of energy is the problem, then an energy drink throughout the ride might be a better option, and have a banana with you as a backup. The other option is as Pokerface has said have something very light 30 mins prior to the ride, like a banana.

    You need to find out what works best for you, everyone will give a different answer based on what they do, but we are all at differing fitness levels. I will point out that as you get fitter your fueling strategy may change.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    IIRC your muscles have enough energy (glycogen) in them for around two hours. After that, depending on the effort you put in, you will start to run out of steam.

    This is true, but depending on the level of intensity of the ride, your body will use other fuel sources as well, unless it is a very high tempo, the body will use fat as well as glycogen as it's fuel. Alot of people get tired through pure fatigue, rather than running out of glycogen.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    I thought fatigue was running out of glycogen?
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    No fatigue is tiredness, work your muscles hard and they get tired. Run out of glycogen, and you will be on the road side have double vision etc, ie you will have bonked.

    You can get fatigued even if you constantly fuel up, ie a 100+ mile ride, you will be tired at the end, but you will be able to function without any problem. When people have bonked, they are unable to ride normally, and will need to sit or lie down and try and get some food in them to be able to stand. I have never bonked yet, so I don't know what it is actually like, but I have ridden with people that have bonked.
  • Thanks everyone - i think i have found the problem for the first hour of the ride i have been spinning on the flat at a cadence at beaten 90 and 108 in 4th of 5th gear middle ring.

    Because i go out on my own and during the day, i am generally on my own for the whole ride, yes i know billy no mates, so have no one to pace against.

    It my intention to stay at say 90, on the flats and try and improve on the hill sections

    What do you think?

    Mike
    We are an online travel agency.

    Specialized Sirrus (converting to road bars) - Honda Fireblade.
  • GavHGavH Posts: 933
    Mike,

    I'd say forget about the numbers (cadence, speeds, time etc) next time out and just go and ride the route at a pace/intensity that YOU feel comfortable with. Even if you are consciously slow throughout the ride it means the only way is up (Faster!) from then on in.
  • Dodger747Dodger747 Posts: 305
    Maybe I'm different to everyone else but after an hour or so I get hungry on the bike. Maybe it's psychological and as I bonked the first few times I went out on my bike years ago, but even if I go out for an hour I'll take a banana...
    VO2 Max - 79 ml/kg/min
    W/kg - 4.9
  • rjh299rjh299 Posts: 721
    GavH wrote:
    Mike,

    I'd say forget about the numbers (cadence, speeds, time etc) next time out and just go and ride the route at a pace/intensity that YOU feel comfortable with. Even if you are consciously slow throughout the ride it means the only way is up (Faster!) from then on in.

    Agree with GavH's thinking. Go at a sustainable pace and see how you get on. Then you have a base target of what speed your averaging and can gradually improve upon it. In small increments at a time though.
  • Thanks again everyone

    Will try and just go at a comfortable pace - the trouble is i like a fast cadence :oops:

    As far as eating goes i will take a banana and perhaps a flap jack or 2.

    Mike
    We are an online travel agency.

    Specialized Sirrus (converting to road bars) - Honda Fireblade.
  • stevewjstevewj Posts: 227
    My regular sunday route is about 50m - I find that a bowl of porridge with a spoon of honey half an hour before together with 750 ml of energy drink gets me round comfortably. I usually eat three fig rolls as well but purely to keep the energy stores up. This same regimen got me round a 50 mile timetrial last month feeling frisky enough at the end to wind it up over the last ten miles.
  • 147ant147ant Posts: 19
    just have to say guys i hit the wall many years ago on a 90 mile round trip with a few mates. we had a cafe stop at about 50miles to refule, then the last 25miles was a burn up.five miles from home and my suger level dropped, legs were like lead body went very weak .collapsed in a shop doorway and got some chocolate and energy drink down my neck and managed to crawl the last 5mile home never will forget that day.
  • sampras38sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    stevewj wrote:
    My regular sunday route is about 50m - I find that a bowl of porridge with a spoon of honey half an hour before together with 750 ml of energy drink gets me round comfortably. I usually eat three fig rolls as well but purely to keep the energy stores up. This same regimen got me round a 50 mile timetrial last month feeling frisky enough at the end to wind it up over the last ten miles.

    Did a hilly 55 today after breakfast and had a bowl of porridge, 1 banana, cup of juice and coffee. Ate nothing on the ride but took 2 x 750ml bottles of drink. Averaged 19mph and felt good for the whole ride.

    I've been riding a while but I appreciate some people are still getting to grips with what their bodies can do, but you really don't need any food for 50 miles if you've eaten properly beforehand. You're not struggling because of a lack of food, but more down to fitness or experience.
  • ^^^ is exactly what i do, porridge 1.5hrs before going out, banana 30 minutes before, usual morning coffee's and a couple of glasses of squash during the 1.5hrs, feel that im adequatly fueled prior to leaving irrespective of what ive had to eat the previous evening, and i take 500ml of fluid with me, and im good for 50 miles
  • rjh299rjh299 Posts: 721
    ^^^ is exactly what i do, porridge 1.5hrs before going out, banana 30 minutes before, usual morning coffee's and a couple of glasses of squash during the 1.5hrs, feel that im adequatly fueled prior to leaving irrespective of what ive had to eat the previous evening, and i take 500ml of fluid with me, and im good for 50 miles

    You only drink 500ml for 50 miles? That seems like very little. I take 2x750ml bottles on a 50 mile ride and usually have very little left when I finish.
  • Heres a good article by uber guru Joe Beer and some other dude. Has advice when to/how much to drink, and eating for your partic body weight

    http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/articl ... cess-20344
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • For what it's worth,

    I do a 37 mile loop three times a week. Sometimes hard, managing 2:15 and sometimes easy, taking 2:30. It's quite hilly around Rivington north of Bolton. I take two 750ml bottles made with water and 250ml sports drink (Supermarket home brand - as about 35p/500ml bottle and split this between the two bottles).

    If you eat a good nutritious diet this should be more than enough - if you want a little quick lift at the end of the ride or if you have a really rough day take a can of coke. The caffeine and sugar hit very quick and you'll have your energy back in no time.

    The pro's often have a coke in the last few km's of a stage race. If I know I am going to go hard I'll do a can of coke topped up with water in my second bottle.

    This year I managed the Vatternrundan in 9:50 (186 miles) and the can of coke I carried around just for the end gave me a nice lift in the last 40km.

    Try it you’ll be surprised!

    Good luck - Tom :wink:
  • pollys_bottpollys_bott Posts: 1,012
    Thanks again everyone

    Will try and just go at a comfortable pace - the trouble is i like a fast cadence :oops:

    As far as eating goes i will take a banana and perhaps a flap jack or 2.

    Mike

    But a fast cadence and a comfortable pace needn't be mutually exclusive. I find it more comfortable to ride at 85-90 cadence than 65-70 for example. Everyone's different, you just need to experiment and find out what works best for you. With regard to eating, I did a 100km charity ride in May and had 2 bananas, 2 energy bars, a flapjack, 750ml of water and 1litre of Lucozade sport. My bro-in-law had a banana, a flapjack and 500ml each of water and Lucozade; and his mate got round on a bottle of water. We're all different! :)
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