Silly: Kharma jumps the shark

DonDaddyD

Riding up a hill in Richmond Park I'm giving it the moobs (that doesn't sound fast does it), I'm trying to make an attack stick against London Dynamo (no joke - but only up the hill). I get out of the saddle and bring the dance to the pedals when my Kharma's chain jumps from 3rd to 5th. The sudden jolt felt like a Campag gear change and if I wasn't clipped in I'd have been off.

So I climb on the saddle going gingerly and change through the gears. 3rd and 4th always seem to jump between each other (at times) and 5th (middle cog - 10 speed cassette) jumps when I go above a certain speed.

I've also noticed that if I'm in 3rd and change to 4th it'll go to 5th most of the time or it'll go to 4th then jump to 5th of its own will. However, if you flip the bike upside down it, turn the pedals (by hand) it doesn't jump through the changes.

I've looked at the cassette and the teeth look OK, the chain doesn't feel stretched what could it be?

What could be the problem, is this something I can fix on my own or should I MTFU and go to the LBS...

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

I get out of the saddle and bing to dance on the pedals when my Kharma's chaing jumps from 3rd to 5th. The sudden jolt felt like a Campag gear change and if I wasn't clipped in I'd have been off.

So I climb on the saddle going gingerly and change through the gears. 3rd and 4th always seem to jump between each other (at times) and 5th (middle cog - 10 speed cassette) jumps when I go above a certain speed.

I've also noticed that if I'm in 3rd and change to 4th it'll go to 5th most of the time or it'll go to 4th then jump to 5th of its own will. However, if you flip the bike upside down it, turn the pedals (by hand) it doesn't jump through the changes.

I've looked at the cassette and the teeth look OK, the chain doesn't feel stretched what could it be?

What could be the problem, is this something I can fix on my own or should I MTFU and go to the LBS...

Your power is bending the Carbon frame

DonDaddyD

I thought so, but then I tried to power slowly - that was difficult it takes more effort to hold my thighs back than simply let them go - and the gear jumping happened anyway.

If its my weight I'm gonna be upset.

spasypaddy

probably just needs a tinker.

jonginge

DDD aka Andy Schleck


Maybe the rear spindle could be tighter. Could be the wheel flexing slightly in the dropouts under load. I had a similar issue and did a facepalm when it went away on tightening the quick release slightly :oops:

Clever Pun

you really moobs are bitch tits and not a measure of power (in cycling circles anyway)

il_principe

Cable stretch, re-indexing needed? that or it's cos you're riding ShimaNo.

rjsterry

DonDaddyD wrote:

Riding up a hill along Richmond Park, I'm giving it the moobs (that doesn't sound fast does it), I'm trying to make an attack stick against London Dynamo (no joke - but only up the hill). I get out of the saddle and bing to dance on the pedals when my Kharma's chaing jumps from 3rd to 5th. The sudden jolt felt like a Campag gear change and if I wasn't clipped in I'd have been off.

So I climb on the saddle going gingerly and change through the gears. 3rd and 4th always seem to jump between each other (at times) and 5th (middle cog - 10 speed cassette) jumps when I go above a certain speed.

I've also noticed that if I'm in 3rd and change to 4th it'll go to 5th most of the time or it'll go to 4th then jump to 5th of its own will. However, if you flip the bike upside down it, turn the pedals (by hand) it doesn't jump through the changes.

I've looked at the cassette and the teeth look OK, the chain doesn't feel stretched what could it be?

What could be the problem, is this something I can fix on my own or should I MTFU and go to the LBS...

Just to clarify, when you say 3rd to 5th do you mean bigger to smaller cog? Is it just a temporary thing - i.e. does the chain change back if you ease off and keep pedaling,or does it stay in 5th? If the latter, then that suggest something is letting out cable when load is applied to the chain, either at the shifter end, or perhaps the pinch bolt on the derailleur is not as tight as it should be. You get something similar on old friction DT shifters, if they are too loose - stamp on the pedals and the derailleur moves to release some of the chain tension. by shifting to a smaller cog. If it's the former, then I would guess that some part of the frame is flexing, which is worrying, as that is supposed to be the stiff bit of the bike. A couple of things you can check easily and then off to the LBS if no joy. If it's the Ergolever that is slipping you'll need the LBS anyway, but at least you can direct them to the problem.

Specialized Needs

Shhhh...

You have an early prototype of the new automatic Di2 gear shifter.

lost_in_thought

Poor quality gruppo, clearly.

asprilla

Il Principe wrote:

Cable stretch, re-indexing needed?

This. Replaced my cables a month ago and now the rear gears have started doing this (but only when I'm on the little ring at the front.). I'm going to pull my hair out attempting to get my indexing done tonight.

Since I'm not a wizard and I don't know the correct ritual for sacraficing toads and chickens to the indexing gods my attempts will fail.

bigmat

Love the way you have a dig at Campagnolo, before launching into how shite your Shimano gears are!

DonDaddyD

How much for Athena? Lol

I probably need to get the bike serviced. If it is the frame then I'll make a severe complaint to Kuota and then buy Wilier, if its a gruppo problem Chorus as I can't buy Athena because I'm male. I hope its just a cable index issue I really do I don't want to spend anymore money...

rjsterry wrote:

Just to clarify, when you say 3rd to 5th do you mean bigger to smaller cog?

Normally bigger to smaller cog. I think it has jumped up from smaller to bigger once or twice but not with any frequency.

Is it just a temporary thing - i.e. does the chain change back if you ease off and keep pedaling,or does it stay in 5th?

If it goes to 5th it normally tries to stay there or the chain will jump on the sprocket but not go any further down the cassette. It's actually no longer safe (I think) to climb out of the saddle.

If it's the former, then I would guess that some part of the frame is flexing, which is worrying, as that is supposed to be the stiff bit of the bike. A couple of things you can check easily and then off to the LBS if no joy. If it's the Ergolever that is slipping you'll need the LBS anyway, but at least you can direct them to the problem.

You're making me scared...

rjsterry

DonDaddyD wrote:

How much for Athena? Lol

I probably need to get the bike serviced. If it is the frame then I'll make a severe complaint to Kuota and then buy Wilier, if its a gruppo problem Chorus as I can't buy Athena because I'm male. I hope its just a cable index issue I really do I don't want to spend anymore money...

rjsterry wrote:

Just to clarify, when you say 3rd to 5th do you mean bigger to smaller cog?

Normally bigger to smaller cog. I think it has jumped up from smaller to bigger once or twice but not with any frequency.

Is it just a temporary thing - i.e. does the chain change back if you ease off and keep pedaling,or does it stay in 5th?

If it goes to 5th it normally tries to stay there or the chain will jump on the sprocket but not go any further down the cassette. It's actually no longer safe (I think) to climb out of the saddle.

If it's the former, then I would guess that some part of the frame is flexing, which is worrying, as that is supposed to be the stiff bit of the bike. A couple of things you can check easily and then off to the LBS if no joy. If it's the Ergolever that is slipping you'll need the LBS anyway, but at least you can direct them to the problem.

You're making me scared...

Does the cable feel a bit slack when it's fully released - chain on smallest cog? If so, then take up the slack with the barrel adjuster or actually undo the pinchbolt and pull the cable through a bit (not too tight). And make sure you do the pinch bolt up tight enough (not too tight, mind)

DonDaddyD

rjsterry wrote:

Does the cable feel a bit slack when it's fully released - chain on smallest cog? If so, then take up the slack with the barrel adjuster or actually undo the pinchbolt and pull the cable through a bit (not too tight). And make sure you do the pinch bolt up tight enough (not too tight, mind)

I'll check the cable but as this is my Kharma I think if it is noticable slack I'll take it to the LBS.

Thanks though may have a play with this on my Giant as well, I need to learn how to dial my gears just right.

rjsterry

I think there is an indexing article somewhere on BR...


... Yer tis http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/workshop-shifting-problems-20350

jonginge

DonDaddyD wrote:

I need to learn how to dial my gears just right.

Performance #nowplayinginmyhead

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

I need to learn how to dial my gears just right.

"Or buy Campag, 'cos Shimano's shite."

rjsterry

DonDaddyD wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Does the cable feel a bit slack when it's fully released - chain on smallest cog? If so, then take up the slack with the barrel adjuster or actually undo the pinchbolt and pull the cable through a bit (not too tight). And make sure you do the pinch bolt up tight enough (not too tight, mind)

I'll check the cable but as this is my Kharma I think if it is noticable slack I'll take it to the LBS.

Thanks though may have a play with this on my Giant as well, I need to learn how to dial my gears just right.

Can't do your own maintenance? How girly is that?

stuaff

DonDaddyD wrote:

How much for Athena? Lol

I probably need to get the bike serviced. If it is the frame then I'll make a severe complaint to Kuota and then buy Wilier, if its a gruppo problem Chorus as I can't buy Athena because I'm male. I hope its just a cable index issue I really do I don't want to spend anymore money...

rjsterry wrote:

Just to clarify, when you say 3rd to 5th do you mean bigger to smaller cog?

Normally bigger to smaller cog. I think it has jumped up from smaller to bigger once or twice but not with any frequency.

Is it just a temporary thing - i.e. does the chain change back if you ease off and keep pedaling,or does it stay in 5th?

If it goes to 5th it normally tries to stay there or the chain will jump on the sprocket but not go any further down the cassette. It's actually no longer safe (I think) to climb out of the saddle.

If it's the former, then I would guess that some part of the frame is flexing, which is worrying, as that is supposed to be the stiff bit of the bike. A couple of things you can check easily and then off to the LBS if no joy. If it's the Ergolever that is slipping you'll need the LBS anyway, but at least you can direct them to the problem.

You're making me scared...

'Can't buy Athena because I have some utterly stupid hang-up about the name', more like. Self, and amnezia (and many others) are chuffed with Athena. But then, it's on an actual Italian frame in our cases... If you'd actually spend £250 more getting Chorus just because of the name (same chain, same cassette, barely less weight...), more fool you...

It's probably something that your LBS can sort with no bother.

prawny

When you say you're chain doesn't feel stretched have you checked it with a chain checker doobrie?

I'm only got tiagra but I can honestly say thanks to almost constant fiddling with my cable tension and keeping an eye on chain wear my gears have only slipped once in 2 years.

Sounds like you need to master the art of cable fettling. A real man would

rolf_f

DonDaddyD wrote:

How much for Athena? Lol

I probably need to get the bike serviced. If it is the frame then I'll make a severe complaint to Kuota and then buy Wilier, if its a gruppo problem Chorus as I can't buy Athena because I'm male.

Centaur male enough for you? Aside from the number of gears (and that shouldn't matter as, in London, you'll only need a standard chainset so the gear differences won't be so great anyway), you won't notice any difference from Athena or Chorus. I reckon if Centaur is good enough for my 585, it is plenty good enough for your Kharma - and unlike your Kharma, Centaur is real Italian rather than pretend Italian

PS - Athena fine for blokes; she's the goddess of war :twisted:

stuaff

Rolf F wrote:

PS - Athena fine for blokes; she's the goddess of war :twisted:

He seems not to get that......

Good points about Centaur. At least on a Froogle search, there seems to be very little in it on price between Centaur and Athena at the mo- Athena is more heavily discounted. 11 speed appealed to me as I could have an extended range on the cassette with a similar if not identical spacing between ratios. And 'up to eleven' of course As for function, I agree, there won't be much in it.

roger_merriman

give the barrel ajuster a tiny clockwise turn, sounds like it's just a off a touch, chances of frame flex etc are slim.

rolf_f

StuAff wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

PS - Athena fine for blokes; she's the goddess of war :twisted:

He seems not to get that......

Good points about Centaur. At least on a Froogle search, there seems to be very little in it on price between Centaur and Athena at the mo- Athena is more heavily discounted. 11 speed appealed to me as I could have an extended range on the cassette with a similar if not identical spacing between ratios. And 'up to eleven' of course As for function, I agree, there won't be much in it.

I'd probably have gone that route myself - I think that I could get alloy Athena for about the same as carbon Centaur. The free upgrade to Record front and rear mechs that came with the carbon Centaur swung it for me

Of course, there is the issue that the Campag 10 speed is supposedly a bit nicer mechanically/easier to keep in trim but I bet that is pretty much hard to tell either.

always_tyred

Asprilla wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Cable stretch, re-indexing needed?

This. Replaced my cables a month ago and now the rear gears have started doing this (but only when I'm on the little ring at the front.). I'm going to pull my hair out attempting to get my indexing done tonight.

Since I'm not a wizard and I don't know the correct ritual for sacraficing toads and chickens to the indexing gods my attempts will fail.

Cables will stretchmore initially, then stabilise and then get slightly oxidized, grubby and so on, and shifting will get worse again.

DDD - there's no way you can eyeball a chain and tell if its stretched or not.

Allez Mark

I noticed you said when you turn the bike upside down to check the gear changes everything is fine. This is quite common. If you do attempt to reset your indexing you must have the bike the correct way up. I haven't got a bike stand so i use my tubo trainer.

desweller

<pedant>Chains don't stretch</pedant>.

If it's upshifting by itself, add a bit of tension to the cable. When's the last time you replaced the cables? This 10-speed stuff is pretty sensitive to well-maintained and installed cable runs. Mine only last 12 months :-(.

fossyant

New chain and casette = FIXED and a little adjust of the rear mech - simples

biondino

DesWeller wrote:

<pedant>Chains don't stretch</pedant>

So what does stretch? The chain I replaced was clearly longer that it used to be and no longer fitted the teeth (some of which had also worn) perfectly. Something's changing!

jonginge

biondino wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

<pedant>Chains don't stretch</pedant>

So what does stretch? The chain I replaced was clearly longer that it used to be and no longer fitted the teeth (some of which had also worn) perfectly. Something's changing!

The fabric of reality has shrunk. Someone put it on too high a wash. That's global warming for you...