What if Lance Armstrong was....

Homer J
Homer J Posts: 920
edited August 2010 in Pro race
French instead of American.

Would he be getting the same sort of treatment as he is getting now? Not just from people on forums but the cycling press and what not? I doubt there are many if any TDF winners that haven't doped and we all know that it was highly prevalent in the last decade or so, and still to date riders are getting busted left right and centre. You could say it’s because he won 7, but then most of the field was suspect so it wasn’t as if he had an unfair advantage. Maybe the French press hated him from his first win? Lance did not have the decency to bugger off after his first win like GL. And lets face it Lance is your stereotypical yank, loud mouthed, self-righteous and power crazy (IMO).
I reckon if he was French it would not be as half as bad if anything at all.

FWIW, IMO he doped, but proving it is another thing, to think anything else you’d have to be greener than Robing Hood wearing his number 1’s :wink:
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Comments

  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    that would be alright in my book I would let him off if he was french
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    If he was still as 'loud mouthed, self-righteous and power crazy' as he is, and had bullied other riders out of the sport, threatened to 'destroy' those who spoke out against doping and so on, he would be just as unpopular, even if he was French...

    Oh, and after his comeback / first 'win' the French press and public generally loved him. Then, due to the openness of their press, they began to discover the truth...
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Lance did not have the decency to bugger off after his first win like GL.

    It was very nice of him to shoot himself as a way of ingratiating himself to the French, I must say. Most people buy a card, or write a nice letter, but no, not Greg... he had to go the extra mile and pull out the shotgun. Jolly decent.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    edited August 2010
    [Cast fly]

    He would have died in 1996 due to his treatment not being available on the French socialized healthcare system.

    [Wait for bite]
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • paulcuthbert
    paulcuthbert Posts: 1,016
    You can't really say that. Much of the reason, before any doping suspicion, was his arrogance in the peloton. He was cocky and arrogant, and that didn't fit with the European ethic. So maybe...

    If you're talking about the specifics of the doping allegations, well it couldn't have happened anyway. A branch of the US government sponsoring a pro sports team was, I think, a first- and not just in the States. It wouldn't happen in France or Spain or Belgium or Holland I don't think.

    But it's sort of a daft question!
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  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    RichN95 wrote:
    [Cast fly]

    He would have died in 1996 due to his treatment not being available on the French socialized healthcare system.

    [Wait for bite]
    Nice piece of irony. :wink:

    Of course, in 1996 what you say was true for the 40 odd million Americans excluded form the USA's privatised 'health care' system.
  • Splottboy
    Splottboy Posts: 3,695
    Don't we idolise Mr T.Simpson as one of "Britain's best riders" ?
  • Cleat Eastwood
    Cleat Eastwood Posts: 7,508
    What if Lance was clare balding in disguise.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • donrhummy
    donrhummy Posts: 2,329
    BikingBernie wrote:
    If he was still as 'loud mouthed, self-righteous and power crazy' as he is, and had bullied other riders out of the sport, threatened to 'destroy' those who spoke out against doping and so on, he would be just as unpopular, even if he was French...

    According to your description, he'd be Bernard Hinault. EVERY word of it.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    paulcuthbert wrote:

    If you're talking about the specifics of the doping allegations, well it couldn't have happened anyway. A branch of the US government sponsoring a pro sports team was, I think, a first- and not just in the States. It wouldn't happen in France or Spain or Belgium or Holland I don't think.

    Indeed. Can't imagine a giant company emblematic of a nation with part ownership by the state ever wanting to sponsor a cycling team. Certainly not the likes of Renault or Iles Baleres or Selle Italia-Venezuala or Euskaltel-Euskadi or Lotto, or Astana. Heavens no.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • SunWuKong
    SunWuKong Posts: 364
    Being American has nothing to do with me not liking him, in fact he was American when I did like him. I think the anti-US slant is something that he and his acolytes promote as reason why he is not universally worshiped in Europe.
  • ju5t1n
    ju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    paulcuthbert wrote:

    If you're talking about the specifics of the doping allegations, well it couldn't have happened anyway. A branch of the US government sponsoring a pro sports team was, I think, a first- and not just in the States. It wouldn't happen in France or Spain or Belgium or Holland I don't think.

    Indeed. Can't imagine a giant company emblematic of a nation with part ownership by the state ever wanting to sponsor a cycling team. Certainly not the likes of Renault or Iles Baleres or Selle Italia-Venezuala or Euskaltel-Euskadi or Lotto, or Astana. Heavens no.
    You missed Française des Jeux
  • Bunneh
    Bunneh Posts: 1,329
    Cleat Eastwood wrote:
    What if Lance was clare balding in disguise.

    I'd be oddly aroused...
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  • glauciaregina9
    glauciaregina9 Posts: 259
    Would Lance have attracted as much dislike/hatred/contention if he hadn't been so successful?
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  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    donrhummy wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    If he was still as 'loud mouthed, self-righteous and power crazy' as he is, and had bullied other riders out of the sport, threatened to 'destroy' those who spoke out against doping and so on, he would be just as unpopular, even if he was French...

    According to your description, he'd be Bernard Hinault. EVERY word of it.
    Hinault was a mean bar steward on the bike, but off it he was often jovial. A bit of a split personality.

    As for being French, maybe he would have been rumbled a long time ago. First, he would have been living in France and with a French licence, and so tested much more often. Second, he would probably be on a French team and post-Festina, things really cleared up.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    glauciaregina9 wrote:
    Would Lance have attracted as much dislike/hatred/contention if he hadn't been so successful?

    Of course not. But if he cheated, bullied and bribed his way to riches and fame, it's too be excepted.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • SunWuKong
    SunWuKong Posts: 364
    Kléber wrote:
    donrhummy wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    If he was still as 'loud mouthed, self-righteous and power crazy' as he is, and had bullied other riders out of the sport, threatened to 'destroy' those who spoke out against doping and so on, he would be just as unpopular, even if he was French...

    According to your description, he'd be Bernard Hinault. EVERY word of it.
    Hinault was a mean bar steward on the bike, but off it he was often jovial. A bit of a split personality.

    As for being French, maybe he would have been rumbled a long time ago. First, he would have been living in France and with a French licence, and so tested much more often. Second, he would probably be on a French team and post-Festina, things really cleared up.

    That is impossible he is the most tested athlete of all time, it's true he says so!
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    It was LA that started the whole "anti-French" thing, particularly following his dismissal from Cofidis - I was in France following the Tour in 1999 and there certainly wasn't any apparent animosity toward him then - it was only following the publication of his first book. There was some media speculation in the following years because it was more apparent that "ciclisme a deux vitesses" was afflicting French cycling...
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    If Lance was French, he would have stayed with Cofidis and shared a police cell with David Millar.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    If Lance was French, he would have stayed with Cofidis and shared a police cell with David Millar.
    :lol:
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Micron made an interesting observation on the attitude of 'The French' towards Armstrong's comeback in an earlier thread:
    micron wrote:
    I was at the final TT in the 1999 Tour. An American friend and I saw Armstrong power past and then repaired to a local bar to watch the finish. My friend was carried out of the place shoulder high after getting thoroughly pissed on all the free drinks he was bought. People were cheering and yelling 'chapeau' as Armstrong crossed the finish line. He was a hero, the comeback kid...
    http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16313370
  • Roscobob
    Roscobob Posts: 344
    What if your auntie had a penis? Would she be your uncle? :shock:
  • mandie
    mandie Posts: 218
    He would] have died in 1996 due to his treatment not being available on the French socialized healthcare system
    He would have died in 1996 apart fro Giro playing extreme hard ball with their medical insurers, basically threatening to shift the company's account if they would not pay for Armstrong's treatment - see 'It's Not About The Bike' for details.

    I suspect that the treatment would have been available on the French Healthcare system, possibly not on the NHS at that time because the Tories were still in power then
    We\'ll kick against the darkness \'till it bleeds daylight
  • disquieting_museeuws
    disquieting_museeuws Posts: 601
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    If Lance was French, he would have stayed with Cofidis and shared a police cell with David Millar.

    Or even worse, be Richard Virenque.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    disquieting_museeuws wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    If Lance was French, he would have stayed with Cofidis and shared a police cell with David Millar.

    Or even worse, be Richard Virenque.
    For the sake of argument, assume the investigation confirms organised doping within US Postal. What would Armstrong do next? Keep denying? Or move towards damage limitation, with "everyone else was doing it/it was controlled/no animals were harmed" statements?
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    mandie wrote:
    He would have died in 1996 apart fro Giro playing extreme hard ball with their medical insurers, basically threatening to shift the company's account if they would not pay for Armstrong's treatment - see 'It's Not About The Bike' for details.
    Can you cite a more reliable source? :wink:
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,813
    Kléber wrote:
    disquieting_museeuws wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    If Lance was French, he would have stayed with Cofidis and shared a police cell with David Millar.

    Or even worse, be Richard Virenque.
    For the sake of argument, assume the investigation confirms organised doping within US Postal. What would Armstrong do next? Keep denying? Or move towards damage limitation, with "everyone else was doing it/it was controlled/no animals were harmed" statements?

    pffftttt

    disappear for a good few years would be my advice to him... jail or not
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • jamlala
    jamlala Posts: 284
    iainf72 wrote:
    glauciaregina9 wrote:
    Would Lance have attracted as much dislike/hatred/contention if he hadn't been so successful?

    Of course not. But if he cheated, bullied and bribed his way to riches and fame, it's too be excepted.

    I think you mean 'accepted' iain. Either way, he's retired now after a rather poor (relatively) attempt at winning another TdeF - can we talk about something else? there's more LA threads than anything else on here now........
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  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    mididoctors wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    disquieting_museeuws wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    If Lance was French, he would have stayed with Cofidis and shared a police cell with David Millar.

    Or even worse, be Richard Virenque.
    For the sake of argument, assume the investigation confirms organised doping within US Postal. What would Armstrong do next? Keep denying? Or move towards damage limitation, with "everyone else was doing it/it was controlled/no animals were harmed" statements?

    pffftttt

    disappear for a good few years would be my advice to him... jail or not

    Just out of curiosity, why would you want him to disappear. You're on this forum talking about him a lot. I assume this is because of some facination with him. Yet if he "went away" for 3 or 4 years with no real news wouldn't you(everyone) be losing their main source of entertainment?
  • cajun_cyclist
    cajun_cyclist Posts: 493
    Armstrong is exciting, Pantani was too, these guys are real personalities and that makes the world go around and with the Pirate, after the events at Madonna di Campligio, wrecked and failed test for the uninitiated, the poor guy really did not do much professionally for the rest of his career. A lot of people were into Cipo so it is these types that make the sport interesting, dare I say, Cavendish as well.

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