tubes or tubeless

Paul 135

hi.
I've got an all mountain machine and I've been playing with the idea of going tubeless upfront (not the rear cause rim is knackered .
I've got Mavic Crossmax ST wheels and I'm buying a Maxxis high roller ust tyre for the front. is that tire UST compatible? and is it at all worth it or should I stick to tubes?
any help would be great.
Thanks
Paul.

FunBus

Hi Paul,

you kind of answered your own question there. A Maxxis High Roller UST tyre is of course UST compatible............hence the name!

Regarding pro's and con's, there's a bit of both. I personally still stick to tubes. Dead simple to change and tyres are cheaper - i'm not fussed about the extra little bit of weight and if you get half decent tyres, you'll avoid pinch flats anyway.

Only my personal opinion though, some people swear by tubeless.....

Paul 135

haha I've just realised what ive written. Ignore my stupidity on that bit :oops:

Anonymous

i like tubeless for the puncture protection, it isnt much lighter and i dont run softer tyre pressures which are 2 other supposed advantages.

it is expensiv and can be a right faff so all in all, its not that good an idea i suppose but i do run my bikes in a tubeless fashion

Paul 135

cool. cheers for both your help im just gonna save the hastle and stick with tubes

Northwind

Yup, unless you're getting constant flats the advantages aren't that huge and there's disadvantages. I like tubeless myself but some people are evangelical about it, it's not that good.

cavegiant

Or you could hear answers from both sides before jumping to a conclusion?

Lets get the con out of the way first, because it is a big one.

It will take about an hour to change tyres.

If you change tyres for the conditions weekly, this is not for you (unless like me you have two wheel sets).

The other con is the tyres become more bouncy (no inner tube dampening).

Pro's

The tyres roll faster, especially at lower pressures (this is noticable) (no inner tube dampening).

There is nothing to pinch, so never get a snakebite puncture again.

When used with sealent, most punctures go (far more effective than tubed + sealant).

You can run lower pressures without the old dissadvantages.


So more traction, rolls faster, smoother ride, almost no punctures; however you will have to run tyres for the season (not much of an issue as you will be getting more traction from you tyres so can use summer tyres most of the year).


Youtube ghetto tubeless for the cheapest way to convert.


EDIT: Changed Very noticable , to noticable as not everyone notices =-)

Northwind

cavegiant wrote:

The tyres roll faster, especially at lower pressures (this is very noticable) (no inner tube dampening).

Never noticed this myself tbh

cavegiant

Seriously?

The effect becomes more apparent the lower the pressure goes, I used to ride at 50, I now go at 20 PSI.

it is a subtle effect, like the bouncyness.

It you think about it you are essentially thinning your tyre wall. Thinner tyre walls have less rolling resistance as there is less sidewall to deform.

My comparrison was with a 2.1 ignitor. similar rolling resistance at 40psi tubeless to 50 psi tubed. Not huge, but noticable.

weescott

cavegiant wrote:

you will have to run tyres for the season (not much of an issue as you will be getting more traction from you tyres so can use summer tyres most of the year.

errr...what? I have run 3 different tubeless tyres this year.

---

Changing tyres isn't an issue with tubeless unless you are using Non UST tyres or ghetto tubeless or converted tubeless tyres. It also depends on the rim you are using. Some tyres just don't work with some rims when run tubeless. It really isn't as big a hassle as people make out.

To me Tubeless is only worth it if flats are an issue. It can work out lighter if done right too.

bails87

I'm currently running one tyre tubeless and one tubed, as it leaked so much sealant that I ran out, and gave up!

cavegiant wrote:

The other con is the tyres become more bouncy (no inner tube dampening).

Really? Never noticed it.

Pro's

The tyres roll faster, especially at lower pressures (this is noticable) (no inner tube dampening).

Again, I've never noticed this.

There is nothing to pinch, so never get a snakebite puncture again.

Not true, I've pinched my tubeless tyres several times. And It's never sealed, just pee'd out all of the sealant. You'd still get a puncture if you were using tubes of course.

When used with sealent, most punctures go (far more effective than tubed + sealant).

Thorn punctures, yes. But after about 6 months and several hundred miles of riding I'd only had one thorn punctures 'sealed' by tubeless.

You can run lower pressures without the old dissadvantages.

Pinchflats? See above

So more traction, rolls faster, smoother ride, almost no punctures; however you will have to run tyres for the season (not much of an issue as you will be getting more traction from you tyres so can use summer tyres most of the year).

That's very subjective.

I still think a lightweight tube with a bit of tubeless sealant in it is a good idea. Puncture protection of tubeless, with the convenience of tubes. A bit of extra weight though. but, along with the 'traction benefits' I can't detect it.

Barracuda Bob

I prefer inner tubes to being tubeless. What would happen to the tubeless wheel if something really happened and you need to change tyres while out riding etc. You know for sure that if you have got an inner tube its a peace if mind at the end of the day. But thats my preferance though.

bails87

Barracuda Bob wrote:

I prefer inner tubes to being tubeless. What would happen to the tubeless wheel if something really happened and you need to change tyres while out riding etc. You know for sure that if you have got an inner tube its a peace if mind at the end of the day. But thats my preferance though.

So what happens now, with tubes, if you need to change your tyre? :?

Just carry a spare tube with you, if, for some reason, the tyre doesn't hold air, put a tube in and finish the ride.

weescott

Barracuda Bob wrote:

I prefer inner tubes to being tubeless. What would happen to the tubeless wheel if something really happened and you need to change tyres while out riding etc. You know for sure that if you have got an inner tube its a peace if mind at the end of the day. But thats my preferance though.

Never had to change a tyre when out riding, but then again 99% of people don't take spare tyres on a ride with them.

I still carry a spare tube with me anyway. No big deal.

cavegiant

OK am I the only one in the world who notices the tyres are both bouncier and roll faster?!

It needs to a be a side by side comparrsion, so switching tyres will not help, especially as UST have thicker sidewalls minimising the effect.

GhallTN6

Went tubeless about 3 months ago, proper with Mavic rims, hope ProII, and continental UST tyers, took 10 mins to put each tyre on with sealant (about same time to fit a tyre with tube).

I would say the biggest benefit to me is that my confidence has now vastly improved as I don't care what I go over!

I'm also liking that they:
Roll quicker.. (but that could also be down to the new wheelset)
Improve the suspension (especially with larger profile tyres)
No thorn punchures as yet
No pinch punchures as yet (so no dented rims)
Fit and forget (so far)
Incredible grip due to lower tyre pressure

Tad expensive though ... £380

weescott

cavegiant wrote:

OK am I the only one in the world who notices the tyres are both bouncier and roll faster?!

It needs to a be a side by side comparrsion, so switching tyres will not help, especially as UST have thicker sidewalls minimising the effect.

In theory UST tyres with the extra strength and weight in the sidewall should feel the same as the tubed version as the innertube adds to the stiffness of the tyre. But with the ability to run a lower PSI.

1. I haven't found I am running any lower PSI tubeless to tubed. And I experimented with some silly low pressures too!

2. The manufacturing process has to be different meaning you get different riding characteristics? E.g. Tyres made in different factories

3. Maybe the lower rotating mass at the edge of the tyre makes a difference to acceleration? Granted the weight difference is marginal and subjective given the choice of inner tubes.

bails87

GhallTN6 wrote:

I'm also liking that they:
Roll quicker.. (but that could also be down to the new wheelset)

You've said what I was going to

Improve the suspension (especially with larger profile tyres)

Well that's probably down to the tyre size rather than the fact that they're tubeless

No thorn punchures as yet

So you wouldn't have had any thorn punctures with tubes? Unless you've had punctures but they've sealed.

No pinch punchures as yet (so no dented rims)

An impact that involves denting the rim will lead to a pinch puncture. Pinch punctures don't cause dented rims :?

Fit and forget (so far)

I think it needs to be done properly fo rthis to be true. Which you've done.

Incredible grip due to lower tyre pressure

If you can notice it, then great.

Tad expensive though ... £380

This is the problem. If you've already got the whole setup, and all you need is a bit of sealant then it's worth trying, but I'm not totally convinced it's worth the expense of conversion kits, or buying a whole new wheelset for just this reason. Saying that, if I was buying new wheels I'd get tubeless ones

ride_whenever

Why run UST tyres with sealant?

Run a tubeless ready tyre (2bliss, TNT, any of the tyres with a UST bead but lacking the latex layer for airtightedness) with sealant for the same effect

I've noticed how much smoother it was. As for punctures, pulled a thumb tack out of my tyre, span the wheel and it sealed! That's enough for me! Certainly seems to roll better (probably psychosomatic though)

I did shred one tyre, tore 3 or 4 2mm square holes in the sidewall landing sideways on a gravel slope and rolling the tyre off, which was probably due to underinflation. But I've since put a slightly tougher tyre on with a bit more bulk under the rim strip and i haven't had any tyre tolling off incidents.

Anonymous

ride_whenever wrote:

Why run UST tyres with sealant?

puncture protection.

Northwind

cavegiant wrote:

OK am I the only one in the world who notices the tyres are both bouncier and roll faster?!

It needs to a be a side by side comparrsion, so switching tyres will not help, especially as UST have thicker sidewalls minimising the effect.

Not the only one but plenty of people don't. I went from 30psi with a tube to 30psi with tubeless, all other parts the same... Couldn't tell any difference other than the small difference in weight. Maybe it's more obvious if you're using thick tubes?

I can see the argument for it, that you're deforming more stuff, not just the outer but also the inner tube... But then, think how little force it takes to bend a tube. So I'm not sure, I can't feel it, I won't tell you you're wrong, maybe it's there and I just can't tell. I just would say it's not as open and shut as you said.

Anonymous

because it doesnt exist

ride_whenever

sheepsteeth wrote:

ride_whenever wrote:

Why run UST tyres with sealant?

puncture protection.

So if you're using sealant why take the extra weight of a full UST tyre when you don't need the airtight tyre... A ust beaded regular tyre is a much better option as you want sealant anyway.

Anonymous

im not, i use 2bliss.

GhallTN6

Personal preference again then I suppose, but everyone I know who's gone tubeless, either Ghetto, Stan's or UST doesn't want to go back the other way, has anyone read this months MBR exmoor article, can't understand why experienced guys like that wouldn't use a tubeless set up (or set off on a exmoor epic without breakfast).

Shaggy_Dog

Barracuda Bob wrote:

I prefer inner tubes to being tubeless. What would happen to the tubeless wheel if something really happened and you need to change tyres while out riding etc. You know for sure that if you have got an inner tube its a peace if mind at the end of the day. But thats my preferance though.

Same as if you have a puncture with tubes, put an inner tube in! But instead of taking the old tube out, you take the tubeless valve out. If a puncture is big enough that fitting another inner tube isn't going to happen, (like a split sidewall) then you're walking either way.

I've had some faff factor involved with getting tyres to seat upon fitting them, but they've always gone on in the end

FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN!!!

Paul 135

so confused
thanks for all you help everyone
Is it possible to run tubeless on an already dented rim? if so then im going tubeless

weescott

The bead of the tyre needs to seal against the rim. If it's a light dent then it might be ok. A big dent might reguire you to get the pliers out.

neninja

I run tubeless on both bikes with Stans ZTR rims - Olympic and Flow (the Mongoose came with Flows fitted with yellow tape plus 2 bottles of Stans sealant).

It's been hassle free on both set ups using regular Schwalbe NN and RaRa on one bike and Kenda Excavator on the other.

jairaj

Might as well stick my 2p in for what its worth.

The most effective reason for switching to tubeless is so you don't have to fix punctures. Whether they are thorns or pinch punctures. If you are regularly fixing punctures then going tubeless and using sealant will help a lot. Most of the punctures will seal without you even knowing they are there and loose very little air.

As far as comfort and reduced rolling resistance is concerned I feel a bit of a difference with tubeless but not massive. I wouldn't make the change for these reasons alone.

I've only tried tubeless on proper UST rims and on a Stans rim and using either UST tyres or 2bliss tyres. Both were relatively easy to get working, the UST rim was extremely easy. Brand new UST tyres can be a be bit stiff at first to get on but once pumped up and left over night they loosen nicely so next time the tyres will go on and off just like normal. I also agree on the no need for UST tyres, just go for tubeless ready and sealant ie tyres the have a UST bead but not the extra layer.

Shaggy_Dog

I've found the NoTubes rubber rim strip on a Mavic 717 rim with Bontrager TLR (tubeless ready) tyres to be the most effective and reliable. I'm currently using an entire Bontrager setup, it's generally very good but getting the tyres to seat is a bit of a pain without soapy water, tubes or not