SPD's power advantage....Myth?

Anonymous

And, with meesterbond's post, I rest my case.

cee

In other words, the best you can do with the upstroke leg is to get it out of the way so it doesn’t subtract from the force being exerted by the leg on the downstroke.

so is this the 3rd pro coach who has said that pulling on the upstroke interferes with the pushing of the opposite side?

I will believe these people rather than you lot who think they can 'feel' a power advantage....its great that you can...but is probably more to do with the attachment forcing technique....

but will still try SPD's to see if i prefer the 'connected to the bike' feeling.

I reckon roadies use spds because the system is lighter. most spd shoes i have seen are lighter than somehting like an mp56 or a 5-10....
it is pretty obvious that something like an eggbeater will be lighter than a v8....

I also think its farily obvious that the stiffer sole, although not really anything to do with the spd system, but is only practical (due to feet slipping off) clipped in, provides a better pedalling platform...

Cheers for the intersting discussion though folks...

Anonymous

By all means try it if you want to. There are advantages from the solid shoe/pedal interface and so on. And plenty of people like the attatchment to the bike.

I rode them for a few years, and didn't really notice any benefits, so I switched back to flats.
Plus, my riding was more of a "try go get up over or off the most stupid terrain", where bailing out was almost inevitable - I think flats suit that scenario much better.

meanredspider

yeehaamcgee wrote:

And, with meesterbond's post, I rest my case.

Which is clearly why Mr Armstrong cycles on flats..... :roll:

We're going to (continue to) go round-and-round on the argument only to keep coming back to the point that champions, like LA, who have people analysing every aspect of their performance (as demonstrated by the extract above), use SPDs. Why is that?

We can continue to split down the aspects of cycling and talk just about climbing hills, or torque, or see-saws or whatever but that point still eludes the "world is flats" brigade Please explain why TdF riders use SPDs

And to the extract above, it's much easier to pull your foot out of the way whilst maintaining control if that foot is attached (else your having to judge the speed of the pedal perfectly so as to not lose contact but not counteract the motion).

If you don't pull, why do so many cycling shoes come with powerful rachet straps?

Remember that the myth is the "Power Advantage" - even hard soles and lighter pedals give a power advantage

Shaggy_Dog

Well in that scenario, obviously it doesn't matter what pedal system you use, do you run singlespeed or single front ring? My lowest gear is 22 x 32 on a 26" wheel, not quite the lowest out there but allows me to get up nearly anything seated, the only reason I need to stand up is to stop the front wheel lifting, but that inevitably means I lose traction on the rear, unless you do what I call "crouching tiger" where you are out of the saddle but hover just above it, stopping the wheel from lifting but maintaining traction. It is absolute agony to do for more than 30 seconds but sometimes lets you clear the lip of a steep hill. I think in reality I'd spit traction way before my 13 stone bodyweight couldn't rotate the crank.

Anonymous

meanredspider wrote:

champions, like LA, who have people analysing every aspect of their performance (as demonstrated by the extract above), use SPDs. Why is that?

That's already been discussed to. Maybe you should pay more attention.

meanredspider

yeehaamcgee wrote:

That's already been discussed to. Maybe you should pay more attention.

To give a power advantage.....

meanredspider

Harder soles = more power
Lighter shoes = more power
Lighter pedals = more power
Faster pedalling = more power
Better connectedness = possibly more power
Better grip = more power
Moving your feet out of the way = more power

Which have I missed?

Anonymous

Actually, no. Efficiency.

meesterbond

meanredspider wrote:

We're going to (continue to) go round-and-round on the argument only to keep coming back to the point that champions, like LA, who have people analysing every aspect of their performance (as demonstrated by the extract above), use SPDs. Why is that?

Well, it clearly isn't because it allows them to 'pull up' to generate additional power, which was the point of the post.

I don't recall reading anyone stating that riding flats was 'better' than clipless (for me it is definitely better than using SPDs as Shimano Pedallng Dynamics pedals kill my knees, but that's another matter) just that there were a lot of false opinions being banded around as fact.

The truth is that it is horses for courses - I'd never dream of using anything but clipless on the road, but offroad I've recently switched to flats and am rather enjoying it. Road riding never usually requires you to put a foot out to stabilise yourself or to bunnyhop / manual / drop off things which an MTB would do and which,for some, flats make easier.

To be honest, the incredibly stiff carbon soles on my road shoes probably do provide a better power transfer than softer soled shoes, but then they wouldn't work for all but the most lyrca XC mtb rider so in the real world, don't provide any benefit.

Shaggy_Dog

I think it's just over simplification of most people to assume that clipless pedals produce more power because you pull up, when the real reason is producing power more easily at the dead spot.

Similar to the myth that full suspension robs power - another argument altogether.

cee

meanredspider wrote:

Which have I missed?

you forgot to add...

meesterbond

meanredspider wrote:

Harder soles = more power
Lighter shoes = more power
Lighter pedals = more power
Faster pedalling = more power
Better connectedness = possibly more power
Better grip = more power
Moving your feet out of the way = more power

Which have I missed?

Apologies, missed this reply whilst typing my last one... what you've missed is that just stating something you'd like to believe doesn't actually make it right.

ride_whenever

the biggest advantage for spd's for me when i use them is that they allow me to wear these:



as far as i know, no one makes such lairy shoes for off-roading

cee

ride_whenever wrote:

the biggest advantage for spd's for me when i use them is that they allow me to wear these:



as far as i know, no one makes such lairy shoes for off-roading

red ones do go faster...FACT!

ride_whenever

cee wrote:

ride_whenever wrote:

the biggest advantage for spd's for me when i use them is that they allow me to wear these:



as far as i know, no one makes such lairy shoes for off-roading

red ones do go faster...FACT!

Because i can pull up :twisted:

supersonic

People are again confusing power and force.

Shaggy_Dog

I don't know how to link images but I use these http://www.northwave.com/eu/shoes_det.php?itemid=617&catid=2&area=2

Pretty lairy but Dragons are the ultimate MTB disco slipper

t0pc4t

ride_whenever wrote:

the biggest advantage for spd's for me when i use them is that they allow me to wear these:



as far as i know, no one makes such lairy shoes for off-roading

that's reason enough for me as well, those shoes are lush mate

ride_whenever

they are like sex for feet i'd sleep in them except my feet get too hot in bed with them on.

They'll look mint when i finally head out on the white bike (need to sort some kit methinks)

Anonymous

:shock: GAAAAH, my eyes are bleeding!

ride_whenever

hopefully you're blood is red, because then you'll go faster.

meanredspider

meesterbond wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Harder soles = more power
Lighter shoes = more power
Lighter pedals = more power
Faster pedalling = more power
Better connectedness = possibly more power
Better grip = more power
Moving your feet out of the way = more power

Which have I missed?

Apologies, missed this reply whilst typing my last one... what you've missed is that just stating something you'd like to believe doesn't actually make it right.

Absolutely not. But there engineering logic to every single one of these but I'd prefer to not have to explain them all (besides, it's far easier to find some "evidence" on the Net that supports your own point of view and just paste that in instead... :roll: )

I'm arguing that the SPD power advantage isn't a myth. The article/study that started this just says that pulling up isn't efficient - they're already two different things. It seems that the study isn't even original because people are pulling up the same "evidence" from everywhere. Somebody should tell all these cyclists that are using them.

If SPDs are neither efficient nor a power advantage, I'm still not hearing or reading why they are so popular.

Anonymous

blind and deaf troll is blind and deaf?



Seriously though, if there was ever a concrete argument to NEVER use SPD's, those horrendous abominations that you call "shoes" are it

meesterbond

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Seriously though, if there was ever a concrete argument to NEVER use SPD's, those horrendous abominations that you call "shoes" are it

But on the flip side - I give you these from 5:10

meanredspider

yeehaamcgee wrote:

blind and deaf troll is blind and deaf?

Writes Mr See-saw... :roll:

omegas

Making any comparisons of pedalling dynamics when riding a road bike on the road and riding a mountain bike off road is so funny, even boarding on ridicules.

ride_whenever

mmmmmm. even though they're not handmade and italian...


As for the increases, what we need to do is find someone with a wattbike or a powertap or srm and work look at the peak power and threshold power. I think you'd find the peak power would be higher with spds but the threshold power would be the same...

supersonic

meanredspider

What do you mean by 'power'?

Anonymous

ride_whenever wrote:

mmmmmm. even though they're not handmade and italian...


As for the increases, what we need to do is find someone with a wattbike or a powertap or srm and work look at the peak power and threshold power. I think you'd find the peak power would be higher with spds but the threshold power would be the same...

It's been done.