Am i likely to make gains, plateau or just deteriorate....?

the_big_gun

Hi All.

Just wanted some adivce / opinions really....

I've been cycling on and off for about 8 years now, with some rowing and triathlon thrown in for good measure, but have only just started commuting to work every day on the bike.

It's a 40mile round trip (20miles there, 20miles back), and by the end of the week my legs are pretty fried. I've only been doing this now for 3 weeks, so still very early days, but I have gone from doing maybe one or possible 2 rides a week to doing 10 rides of about an hour each.

I'm taking the whole weekend off completely, so a good 60hours between friday's trip home and monday's departure for work, which seems plenty; leaving me with fresh(ish) legs on the Monday.

My concern is that i do want to make gains in my speed as i'm planning on starting racing again (haven't raced since 2006), but i'm worried that, during the week, my legs are just deteriorating and deteriorating to the point where the hurt going up stairs on the thursday night/friday. Am i just destroying my legs to the point where i'm not going giving myself enough chance to pick up speed???

To give you some idea of my general fitness, i did a 10TT earlier this year and got a pb, whereas the last 10TT i did before that was a good couple of years ago now, so i'm fitter than i was, probably from the rowing...

I'm also a bit worried about over training...really don't want to get ill....maybe i'm just trying to hard eveyday...??

Any advice / word of experience / wisdom would be fantastic!!

THanks!

softlad

you will need longer than three weeks to adjust to a commute like that - more like 6-8 weeks, I would suggest. I would say keep at it. Once you have adjusted to the frequency/distance, start adding some speed work and then reap the benefits..

SBezza

Don't hammer all the rides, take some at a very easy pace, might take you longer to get home, but your legs won't be trashed by Thursday.

Obviously the more you do it, the more you will get used to it.

If you do start racing, this will be on a weekend no doubt, and you will want fresh legs for this. It is perfectly reasonable to do a 40 mile round trip each day, as long as you don't hammer each and every ride.

meanredspider

You will definitely get better over time but:
- try to alternate rides fast & slow (and slow means very slow unfortunately)
- once in a while try taking a week off. I took a week off recently and was worried I'd be slower when I came back but, instead, I was on fire. I literally started to average 1mph quicker - an improvement that has remained (taking a stupid chance of being flamed - I increased from 18.4mph to 19.4mph average over the 13-mile section of my commute that I use as a benchmark - the last 2 miles includes very rough footpaths, stairs! pelican crossings etc so is meaningless as "cycling" goes). 2 weeks off is too long - I'm as quick after 2 weeks off but puffing far more.

the_big_gun

Thanks for the advice guys.

I'll defintely start trying to alternate fast and slow then...do you think it'd be better to do fast DAY then slow DAY rather than fast Morning, slow evening...?

I find the slow rides so boring unfortunately, and sometimes a little unsafe....it probably makes no difference at all, but if i'm going a bit closer to the speed of the cars i feel safer, rather than just pootling along.

I did make gains after the first weekend off, coming back and really smashing it on the Monday - Thurs, but had a bit of a lighter day on the Friday cos my legs just weren't working.

I'll defintely have a week off here or there.....maybe once a month you reckon (so 4 weeks on, 1 week off, 4 weeks on, 1 week off..........)??

SBezza

To be honest, how you put a slow ride in, is dependant on your circumstances. Normally my rides into work are recovery rides, and other rides planned are training rides. If I have to put a longish ride in, or a tempo ride, it will be in the evening.

I doubt you need to take a complete week off, recovery rides, if done properly are great ways to commute and recover. If you were racing at the weekend, then perhaps take the Thursday ride home very easy and then not ride on Friday.

As you get fitter, you will probably find you recover more, and your legs will not be so tired.

Also if you are worried about going slow in traffic, try and find an alternative route home, I am lucky I can take numerous ways into work, but I will almost always use back roads that are relatively traffic free.

chrisw12

Every night I plan that the next morning ride into work will be recovery ride and every morning I get up late, end up in a rush and so every morning the ride to work becomes a race, I even take my tt bike in some days although I haven't gone down the disc and aero helmet route yet.

But the advice above is good you can't hammer it all the time, you have to throw some easy rides in if you're commuting.

meanredspider

The idea of going slow (amongst others) is to let your glycogen replenish. My understanding, therefore, is that it needs to be fast DAY slow DAY. And slow needs to be below 70% max HR. Often I just rest instead because I find it so dull (On fast days, nothing should pass you. On slow days, you should pass nothing) It's not quite as effective as a training regime to take days off but then I'm not training for anything. I did about 3 or 4 months before I took a week off which was probably a mistake in hindsight. I'd certainly hit a plateau so maybe that's what you should use as a guide.

Alex_Simmons/RST

meanredspider wrote:

The idea of going slow (amongst others) is to let your glycogen replenish.

You need to eat to replenish glycogen, not ride.

If you want to attain improved fitness, then you'll need a progressive overload in the amount of work you perform (up to a point). See here:
Consistency is key

meanredspider

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

You need to eat to replenish glycogen, not ride.

Of course! You've missed my point entirely. If you exert yourself, your glycogen will remain depleted and you won't be able to sustain the effort. By riding slowly, you are able to achieve a net replenishment of glycogen whilst still exercising your muscles (and getting to work). It's the whole basis of the fast/slow training technique. But that's why slow needs to be very slow.

Alex_Simmons/RST

meanredspider wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

You need to eat to replenish glycogen, not ride.

Of course! You've missed my point entirely. If you exert yourself, your glycogen will remain depleted and you won't be able to sustain the effort. By riding slowly, you are able to achieve a net replenishment of glycogen whilst still exercising your muscles (and getting to work). It's the whole basis of the fast/slow training technique. But that's why slow needs to be very slow.

No, you need to fuel properly so that you can sustain solid training. Slowing down because you haven't fueled properly is just silly, represents poor training practice and a wasted training opportunity.

There is no need, provided you progressively improve fitness, to use a fast-slow-fast approach to training. Indeed for good progression at times you will specifically want to have back to back hard days at times.

chrisw12

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

You need to eat to replenish glycogen, not ride.

Of course! You've missed my point entirely. If you exert yourself, your glycogen will remain depleted and you won't be able to sustain the effort. By riding slowly, you are able to achieve a net replenishment of glycogen whilst still exercising your muscles (and getting to work). It's the whole basis of the fast/slow training technique. But that's why slow needs to be very slow.

No, you need to fuel properly so that you can sustain solid training. Slowing down because you haven't fueled properly is just silly, represents poor training practice and a wasted training opportunity.

There is no need, provided you progressively improve fitness, to use a fast-slow-fast approach to training. Indeed for good progression at times you will specifically want to have back to back hard days at times.

The last bit is interesting for me. Whenever I introduce intervals into my training (6x4 or 2x20) I'm always way down in power the next day and the next day. Where as if I do 2hours hard ride (sweetspot I suppose) I can repeat for a few days.

So I was wondering why intervals were not particularly working for me, it may be because I loose the consistency in my training?

Alex_Simmons/RST

chrisw12 wrote:

So I was wondering why intervals were not particularly working for me, it may be because I loose the consistency in my training?

Pithy power proverb: "The more you do, the more you can do" - A. Coggan

Being consistent is very important. The riders I coach that improve the most are the ones that execute on their plans. Consistently. They find ways to make it happen.

Inconsistent training leads to inconsistent form.

incog24

Definitely with Alex on the consistency, it helps so much.

I've been doing a 25mile round commute, most tempo with some TT pace and some over TT pace intervals thrown in. It does really hammer the legs by the end of the week, but I've found concentrating on my recovery strategies helps a lot. I make sure I eat enough, I have some Rego recover straight after riding, I try and drink carb drinks on the bike (helps your immune system - there's a reference for that one somewhere...). I've also been using compression tights at night, but not totally sure on those yet. Seem to help a bit though, and even if its only placebo that's fine with me.

By doing all of that I've found I can go harder/cope better, so its worth optimising your recovery before you reduce the miles/intensity.

All seems to be helping my form too! 21:37 the other night

Team Banana Spokesman

ive tried b2b hard days and seen the power drop after a few days.

next time I tried b2b hard days I eat a lot more. loads more. I also stayed hydrated better. no power loss until about a week at the same TSS/day (same training loop/workouts)

hard riding needs hard fuelling

andyrr

20 miles each way, every day Monday to Friday IS, IME a fair bit. Does depend a bit if some of the ride can be taken easy-ish or not, ie more ascending in one direction ? Also how tired you are at teh end of the working day to then face a 20 mile ride home.
I do 18 or so miles each way 2 - 5 days a week (how often depends on circumstances, race program, tiredness etc) Pretty rolling roads in general, 790 ft climbing / 1300 descending in and vica-versa for homewards.

Some weeks I've felt able to do 3 days with a day off in between each one, some occasional weeks I've done all 5. I also find doing a slower commute difficult, maybe there is no real benefit in doing a commute that day at all but if the weather is nice then I've sometimes ridden that day when possibly a complete rest would have been more beneficial ?
Riding 20 miles home quite hard one day then the same again the following morning I coudl well believe is resulting in some of the rides being not particularly beneficial to increasing speed so, since you aren't riding at the weekend maybe consider a mid-week rest, or, if it can be arranged, take the bike in (by car ?) one day, ride home, ride back in next morning and drive home, that sort of thing.
If you do that sort of thing then it might allow you to do a ride home (or in) that is longer than the 20 miler, ie one Friday I rode home the long way and instead of 18 it was 65 miles.
Just need to give it some thought really, some days stick it in the wee ring for every hill, some days hammer up every hill.
Some days tack on an extra 1/2 mile or so if that gives you a flatter, easier bit of road, some days do the reverse and search out the hard bits.

Also a big thing for me is to have everything ready for the commute the night before so that a planned easy commute taking 70 minutes is actually allowed that amount of time as opposed to transforming into a 60 mile thrash because you couldn't find your gloves/socks/helmet/tyre was flat. If you need an energy drink for the morning then make it up the night before and stick it in the fridge. Countless times I've been about to leave a few minutes early but then spend 10 minutes searching for something I should have had laid out already.