Do I need a helmet for Sherwood Pines?

cooldad

Kids learn by example, good and bad.

mobilekat

I have worked in casualty and seen the results of crashes....

I even took helmet to shop when I tried out new bike- over cautious maybe, but too many split heads seen over the years to want one.

Good friend mown down by car split helmet in half, friend had few cuts...and walked away (well until ambulance caught him and brought him to casualty!)

I would never ride on a green/blue without a helmet as too many wobbly kids, and daft dogs to make it worth the risk.

And seen too many kids without hats one 'Cos dad doesn't and I want to be big like him'

Briggo

yt_ wrote:

I don't get all the hostility about one simple question. I'm going for a leisurely ride around a park with my son, not coming down a rocky mountain

You don't need to ride down a mountain without a helmet to crack your head open in two by falling off a bike.

People have a strong opinion on the matter because it's frustrating to see people riding without a helmet, it's like driving a car and not wearing a seatbelt, you can argue that you're only driving 2 miles down the road so whats the need etc, it's there for your safety. We just don't want to see people get injured badly when it's so easily avoided.

However a very good point many have raised that you have not refered to is that you're forcing your 10 year old to wear one however you wont, lead by example and all that.

Whatever any of us say, you're not going to wear a helmet are you, which is entirely up to you as it's not the law to do so.

yt_

I understand your point about It being frustrated, but surly it comes down to how they are riding? Also a car seat belt is the law, a bike helmet isn't. Everyday riding doesn't require a helmet, racing and going nuts on a bike does. I'm not going racing nor am I going nuts.

Also I never said I was forcing my son to wear one, he has to at the local skate park, but I only said he has one If I needed to get one to ride around a park Plus he's younger, and more likely to make a silly mistake and fall off from lack of experience then I am.

Like Revell said and from the videos I've seen on youtube it doesn't even look anything remotely technical at SP.

Each to their own really, Some people don't get on a bike without a helmet, I don't think I need one for what I do day to day and I'm confidant in myself not to fall off. I'm not racing, I'm not pushing, and I'm not going stupid. I'm in control.

If its mandatory its for a reason, If its NOT then that's our choice.

Mark_K

So your kid has to wear a helmet but you dont !!! Do as i say not as i do ehh :roll:

Raphe

The helmet debate does seem to bring out the worst in everyone.

Not voicing an opinion one way or the other but I did notice the last time I was in Amsterdam that very few of the thousands of cyclists there wore helmets. Also don’t recall seeing very many people with lycra or any other cycling specific clothing.

stumpyjon

yt_ wrote:

but surly it comes down to how they are riding?

Again it's all a matter of opinion. One minute you're fully in control, next there's a dog under your wheels, a rock you hadn't noticed, a pothole etc. I ride on and off road and always wear a helmet, it's become habit now rather than a concious decision. If I do try and rationalise it my helmet is pretty comfortable, I rarely feel it when it's on so there's no harm wearing it just in case.

On a slightly side and not very meaningful note most people who ride regularly do tend to look down their noses at people who don't wear a helmet, it sort of marks you out as a person on a bike rather than a rider.

It's your choice at the end of the day, I'd rather you wore a helmet but if you don't want to then that's your call, I'm probably over cautious anyway. I certainly wouldn't advocate mandatory helmet use under normal conditions (it's usually only mandatory during organised events, read into that what you will).

gllewellyn

Personally I always wear a helmet - simply because I've had a few offs, and fear the worse, also, it helps to encourage my kids that they should wear theirs...
However i have no problem respecting someones choice not to wear one...

I can appreciate you not wanting to spend loads on a lid, so why not cheap a cheapie one from a supermarket - their all selling them at the moment for about a tenner. I'm sure their not as good as more expensive ones, but at least you can set a good example, and protect yourself from any stray branches/helmet police (nagging kids), etc!

Bikerbaboon

More people each year suffer serious injury because of a slip or trip than do on a bike.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/slips/

so who should be using the protective equipment? the guy rideing slowly round a park or you sat at a desk in the office ?


Im not for our against helmet use. I just dont like people trying to tell others what they must do every time with out exeption or you may die.

Herbie The Dog

I know this is totally different but whenever we take out guided rides or do skills courses we have a simple rule...if you are near the bike you wear your helmet.

And that has nothing to do with our indemnity insurance but all to do with trail etiquette and what we believe is correct riding standards.

Yes it is your choice not to wear one. But it's not my choice if I find you on the trail with your brains dribbling out of your nose.

That would really ruin my day and would probably put my customers off their lunch.

Unlikely scenario but not unheard of.

rhext

If I turned up at Sherwood pines having forgotton my helmet, I'd not hesitate to ride the family routes, I'd probably not do the red XC route. It's not so much that the XC route is particularly difficult or dangerous, it's just it's narrow in places and there's lots and lots of trees. So you might bang your head on a branch. And while it's far from the most challenging offroad track you'll ever see, there's still the odd root which might catch you out here and there.

But it's difficult enough for me to get my kids to wear helmets at the best of times: I'd not want to give them the 'but you don't wear yours' ammunition!

miss notax

Herbie The Dog wrote:

I know this is totally different but whenever we take out guided rides or do skills courses we have a simple rule...if you are near the bike you wear your helmet.

And that has nothing to do with our indemnity insurance but all to do with trail etiquette and what we believe is correct riding standards.

Yes it is your choice not to wear one. But it's not my choice if I find you on the trail with your brains dribbling out of your nose.

That would really ruin my day and would probably put my customers off their lunch.

Unlikely scenario but not unheard of.

This!!!

I personally always wear one - but I agree that it's each individuals choice and if people do or don't then that's their business.

I definitely don't want to be in the position to be holding someones head together waiting for the air amulance to arrive though - so, being selfish, I would rather everyone did to minimise this risk!!!

weekendwonder

Talk about can of worms, this thread could run and run!

But as some have already pointed out helmets have not always been around, I can remember when traveling to and from school and at weekends and in the evenings with mates and no-one had a helmet.

I had plenty of accidents then but not really a problem.

But now I would not go out without my helmet, as only last week I was trying out an adjustment I'd made to my seat height outside the house and fell off and nearly hit my head on the kerb!

But that could be down to age! :oops:

paul.skibum

I agree witht he comment - no helmet = person on a bike helmet = bike rider.

It's about the regularity and passion with which you are riding - the guy without a helmet is tootling along and probably talking on his mobile. Personally even on a short ride across town I rarely go less than 8 tenths so I like a helmet, gloves and glasses to protect my head eyes and hands.

The debate is a bit HT FS in its polarisation of opinions but its a similarly bullsh*t arguement because the extremes will never agree.

paulbox

I always wear a helmet riding on the road or off and I also regularly hit low branches in the woods that I ride. Am I doing this because I have a helmet on and therefore am taking more risks, would I ride better if I didn't have a helmet on?

rhext

paul.skibum wrote:

I agree witht he comment - no helmet = person on a bike helmet = bike rider.

It's about the regularity and passion with which you are riding - the guy without a helmet is tootling along and probably talking on his mobile. Personally even on a short ride across town I rarely go less than 8 tenths so I like a helmet, gloves and glasses to protect my head eyes and hands.

The debate is a bit HT FS in its polarisation of opinions but its a similarly bullsh*t arguement because the extremes will never agree.

That's a little bit controversial. It's not that uncommon to see people who look like they were born on a bike and regularly do 150 miles every day before breakfast cruising effortlessly along at 25 MPH without a helmet. Presumably they're the ones who didn't wear helmets when they were kids and see no reason to start now....but it's difficult to argue that they're not bike riders!

surreyxc

http://www.cyclorama.net/viewArticle.php?id=62 interesting thoughts which seems to contradict a lot of the pro-lobby

"
The Victoria Injury Surveillance System (V.I.S.S.) has monitored accidents to child cyclists in Melbourne. The survey showed reductions in cycling of 36% and 45% for the first and second year of the helmet law. When a relative injury rate was calculated for the reduced number of child cyclists, the V.I.S.S. data showed that accidents increased by 13% and 21%, together with increased head injury of 6% in the second year.
"

Should I wear one when I run at 10mph, your head is further from the ground, or do DIY, or a flat slow bridleway, or canal path. How about kids climbing trees, and then there's that girl who died sledging. How about playgrounds, knocked my teeth out and my sister broke here arm. I just don't know anymore, it is all so confusing. Where helmet or don't which seems to be the consensus but the zealot helmet wearers please go away. I will figure out where and when to wear a helmet all by myself thanks.

Yes off road can have its risks, but on the road we are yet again all ignoring the white elephant in the room, which is da da 'cars' , cars make roads dangerous not the lack of a helmet. Make cars safer not to the occupants but to the people outside the car.

paul.skibum

rhext wrote:

paul.skibum wrote:

I agree witht he comment - no helmet = person on a bike helmet = bike rider.

It's about the regularity and passion with which you are riding - the guy without a helmet is tootling along and probably talking on his mobile. Personally even on a short ride across town I rarely go less than 8 tenths so I like a helmet, gloves and glasses to protect my head eyes and hands.

The debate is a bit HT FS in its polarisation of opinions but its a similarly bullsh*t arguement because the extremes will never agree.

That's a little bit controversial. It's not that uncommon to see people who look like they were born on a bike and regularly do 150 miles every day before breakfast cruising effortlessly along at 25 MPH without a helmet. Presumably they're the ones who didn't wear helmets when they were kids and see no reason to start now....but it's difficult to argue that they're not bike riders!

I see guys on road doing that and I think that's pretty foolish to be honest. Sure you can argue well being hit by a car will kill you the helmet wont help bit a low speed topple can result in a clout to the skull. I personally believe that a proper enthusist especially mtb will wear a helmet, a dawdler with his kids may not.

As for running, DIY and what not - you wear the protective equipment appropriate - walking I oddly dont wear anything, running I dont do but I still wouldnt, DIY - goggles and gloves if needed, etc - protection appropriate to the activity and your own personal risk - a heklmet, gloves and goggles are my required minimum for off road or on road.

surreyxc

to the comparison of wearing a seat belt, I would personally make it law for everyone in a car to wear a seat belt except for the driver.

and there seems to be a lot of 'told you so's' but just because someone gets injured when not wearing a helmet does not mean a helmet would have prevented the injury.

yes helmets are of value, but what is a growing trend is a generation of people unable and incapable of making personal risk assements and judgements, which seems to stem from an over protective childhood and nanny state. To the extent people seem to be unable to function without rules, and will follow those religiously even if those rules are actually more dangerous.

was it in Holland where they experimented by removing a lot of road signs and they found it actually increased road safety becuase it made people think about their actions, rather than follow the rules with any thought.

many non-cyclists percieve cycling to be a hassle, those people want to be able to just go out on a bike to work or shops without all the gear and helmets add another hassle. And the more people cycling the less people driving. It needs to reach a critical mass, otherwise we will contiune to hear the arguement of 'I would let my kids cycle to school but the roads are just to busy, so I drive them instead'

a friend whilst at the pub which we cycled to without helmets and in jeans, t-shirt, who is not a dare devil, but does ride motorbikes, fly, powerboat, made an interesting point, gloves may well be of more value than a helmet, normally you would have both, but if you had to chose one, which would you chose helmet or gloves?

God I must be bored writing all this rubbish, apologies for boring the arse of everyone!

rhext

I'm a bit ambivalent re the risk on road cycling. There seem to be no reliable stats showing that there's a benfit. It feels like it ought to be beneficial, and that's why I wear one most of the time. But pretty much every argument for wearing one could equally be applied to walking around....

As far as off-road is concerned, I think not wearing a helmet is a little foolish. On the road, you've got a constant stream of cars and trucks making sure that things like protruding branches etc never get a chance to establish at head hight. Offroad, you're not so lucky. At least twice in the last couple of weeks, I've had occasion to be grateful for my helmet cycling along the Derby riverside route: smooth asphalt surface, good visibility...and a protruding stick from a tree which I keep bashing my head on! I don't think I'd be in hospital regretting leaving my brains behind: but it would still be somewhat sore! And by the same token, I'd not ride offroad without glasses. Perhaps we should start a thread on that.

surreyxc

and cheer up you will probably die of cancer

Daz555

Wear a helmet, don't wear a helmet. I don't care. Why would I?

But please can the pro-helmet and anti-helmet nazis just stop banging on about it. I don't really get why this is such a problem in the cycling world. In snow sports there is a lot of helmet use these days (I wear a lid when doing anything 'serious') - the difference however is that no-one bangs on about helmets all the time.

rhext

Daz555 wrote:

Wear a helmet, don't wear a helmet. I don't care. Why would I?

But please can the pro-helmet and anti-helmet nazis just stop banging on about it.

You should care. It's important! :twisted:

weekendwonder

surreyxc wrote:

but if you had to chose one, which would you chose helmet or gloves?

I wear both gloves and helmet and a good point raised regarding the wearing of glasses, I wear them as well.

Guess it's about about protecting yourself, and maybe looking the part, hey look at me I'm a?

Whatever that may be, just be safe

Daz555

surreyxc wrote:

to the comparison of wearing a seat belt, I would personally make it law for everyone in a car to wear a seat belt except for the driver.

My driving instructor once joked that the the best thing that could be done to reduce car accident rates would be to ban driver seatbelts and place a 12" spike in the centre of every steering wheel. He is not too far off.

I ride a motorcycle and once borrowed a mates 'power rangers' full leather armoured suit. I felt invincible. It convinced me not to buy one.

Northwind

rhext wrote:

I'm a bit ambivalent re the risk on road cycling. There seem to be no reliable stats showing that there's a benfit..

It's a subject that's incredibly hard to analyse unfortunately. How do you collect data for "people who fell off a bike and hit their head but were uninjured because of their helmets and so just got back on"? That's the biggest problem, and it's basically insurmountable unfortunately. There's anecdotal evidence "My helmet saved my life", which is almost completely unreliable. But the lack of evidence ironically points towards, not away from, helmets working.

There's also very strong self-selection here, because people who're risk conscious and wear a helmet are also less likely to ride unsafely in general. But, then you get armour risk displacement, ie people who think they're protected taking more risks. And then you get the (unreliable) assertion that drivers give cyclists without helmets more room. And then the hard-to-categorise increased risk of rotational acceleration brain trauma from those who DO wear a helmet. And that's just a small snapshot of the maybes.

Basically if I was given the job of trying to collect serious stats on cycle helmet use and its impact, I would most likely jump off a tall building. Without a helmet.

The really interesting stats, IMO, are about injury types. You're statistically far more likely to suffer a permenent leg injury than a permenent brain injury on a bike (see peebles/eri figures from Glentress, and Fort William study from 10UTB), and knee protection is actually more effective than helmets for preventing the relevant injuries, but just about everyone wears helmets while only a minority wear CE knee pads. Every reasonable argument that applies to wearing helmets offroad applies about 10-fold for knee pads, which is interesting considering the number of people who devoutly insist on people wearing helmets but don't wear knee pads.

<spurious counterargument, to save someone trying and me having to correct them- permanent brain injuries are worse than permanent knee injuries. Completely true but that doesn't mean you want a permanent knee injury just because it's less bad>

(PS, I always wear a helmet, because I'd feel a right knob if I fell off and brained myself while riding round the garden)

The Rookie

A helmet will never hurt you more, a helmet can mean you'll hurt less, although I've never yet come off and bashed my head (when younger when helmets were unheard of) or helmet, there have been times when it was obvous that it was only a small amount of luck that meant I hadn't, I always wear a helmet and insist on the daughters and wife wearing theirs.

Personally I think people who undertake risky acticities without taking reasonable precautions shouldn't benefit from free NHS treatment, so motorsists without seatbelts or people on bikes (powered or otherwise) without helmets should have to pay, why should my tax pay for their recklessness?

Simon

RockingDad

Atz wrote:

Personally, I wear my lid riding to the shops, pootling through the park, anywhere.

Testify brother.

However, personal choice rules

RockingDad

Northwind

The Beginner wrote:

A helmet will never hurt you more

Not so. Helmets are known to cause an increase in the rotational forces on the head in some crashes, they can literally act like a lever on your head, and rotational force is a major cause of brain trauma. It seems counterintuitive but yes, helmets can injure you.

ade73

well when i was going mountainbiking in ireland as i,m from the uk and my brother live,s in cork and they told me to take me bike over so i said yeah no probs then the next question was do i need a helmet my brother told me yes its the law for everyone to wear a helmet in ireland so i had to go and buy a helmet

then i tried it on looked in the mirror and said to my brother it does,nt suit me my brother replies they werent made to suit people they were made for protection and now i wear my helmet all the time

its better safe than sorry mate