Which Cyclocross?

aldric

I have definately decided that I am going to get a CX Style bike for my 22 mile round trip, 365 day a year commute.

I am going to be using a CTW scheme which has to use halfords and I would like a budget of a MAX of £800. Halfords are able to order in most bikes, I have already asked them about the Specialized and thats not a problem. I have been promised that our scheme will start within 2 weeks, so probably August 1st.

I have said on this forum before that I liked the Specialized Tricross but am I missing any others out? Are there any better?

To be honest the specs of bikes is a bit like a foreign language to me!

Is its worth paying £70 more for the Koma Jake 2010 which appears to have tiagra rather than the Shimano 2300 on the specialized? I don't really know what the difference is but 'think' the tiagra is a bit of an upgrade?

Tricross

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/spe ... gn=froogle


Kona

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kon ... cyclocross

Any suggestions / recommendations would be appreciated

Thanks

EDIt - repoved the bit about pedals, if the bikes good enough im sure I can get some pedals for it.

cjcp

I have Kona frame (an older, mind; perhaps 2007?) and I've used my old Ultegra groupset on it, with the exception that the chainset is an FSA Megaexo, I think - 46/36 gearing anyway, because I wanted to use it for the od CX race.

I love and it's very comfortable on the commute (15-miles each way). The heavier frame and forks are good training, too. And I've used it in the snow (with Mud tyres, and had an absolute scream racing mtbers :-) ).

BUT, I don't like canti brakes, particularly in the wet (I'm like a stuck record on this, I'm afraid); they don't have the stopping power of the caliper brakes on my road bike. They also squeal like hell. I'm als sure that can be sorted to an extent by lowering the front brake cable hanger to the top of the forks and tweaking the pads, but I'm not confident with cantis in the wet, so I'll still with the road bike.

thel33ter

2300 is below Sora, which is below Tiagra, so definitely go for the Kona between those two.

will3

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/gen ... gn=froogle

will3

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/gen ... gn=froogle

aldric

Thanks cjcp,

I like the look of the Giant TCX 2 as well........

I don't really know the difference between the two different braking systems. Is that the common thought, that the canti brakes are insufficient?

Do all cx bikes have the same braking system?

Does everyone have the same concerns regarding the CX brakes?

I also don't really understand the different gearing..... as I said I am a bit clueless with specifications etc. which is why I need as much help as I can get before I make a silly purchase!

Thanks,
Aldric

cjcp

You can adjust the pads and move the cable hanger to reduce squeal, and you could buy more powerful brakes, but a CX bike with disc brakes is probably the best way forward for commuting in all conditions. I don't like going down a hill, with a backpack, in the wet, with cantis. They don't wear the rim either. See the Genesis Croix de Fer.

As for gearing, a 46 means a 46-tooth big ring on the chainset; the 36 is the inner ring. "Proper" road bikes normally have 50, 52 or 53 outer rings, and 34 or 36 on the inner ring (assuming you have a double chainset, not a triple). The 46 is an easier gearing so this is better for riding off-road or in cross races. This forces you to spin more, which gets the lungs and legs going, so no bad thing.

That's about as helpful as a fart in a spacesuit, isn't it?

Norky

Much of the below comes from Wikipedia.

Regarding brakes. I believe CX bikes use traditional cantilever brakes because they have much greater clearance than caliper brakes, useful when your tyres are caked in mud as often happens in races. This will perhaps not be an issue when you are commuting. Traditional canti brakes have less mechanical advantage (power) than most other forms of braking system, and like all rim brakes, get worse when rims are wet.

Disc brakes also allow you to keep riding when tyres are covered in poop, however they were until recently banned in most levels of CX event by the cycle racing governing body (the UCI) and so few CX bikes were sold with them. The UCI recently lifted this ban I believe, so we might start seeing more CX bikes with discs.

I'm interested in this myself as I'm considering a CX bike for commuting when the weather turns foul in winter (and also to allow me to take the odd off-road detour to when I feel like it). I've been considering the Genesis Croix de Fer for its disc brakes.

Jay dubbleU

Croix de Fer - Reynolds steel frame, full 105 chainset, Shimano discs

richardvaltos

I agree with the canti problem. I commute on a genesis vapour at the moment, and have done off and on for two years. I've upgraded/changed the stock brakes and moved the cable hanger to the fork. I've stopped the squealing and the upgraded textro cr720s are way better, but the braking performance in no way compares to a basic road bike. This is hugely scary going downhill in the wet with loaded panniers.

If you don't need big tyres and can cope with 28mms I'd opt for a touring bike from the ridgeback range or something similar, with normal calliper brakes, or if you're keen on a cyclocross bike go for discs. Look at the genesis croix de fer (as suggested) or kinesis do a decent disc brake compatible frame. Interestingly now UCI have removed the ban on discs, the market will no doubt be flooded in 2012.

I'm probably going to end up getting a disc brake compatible frame and doing a component swap/upgrade. I hate canti's they are terrible, and clearly manufacturers know this, but keep quiet as there's no doubt the cyclocross bike as commuter sales pitch has resulted in increased sales.

will3

richardvaltos wrote:

I agree with the canti problem. I commute on a genesis vapour at the moment, and have done off and on for two years. I've upgraded/changed the stock brakes and moved the cable hanger to the fork. I've stopped the squealing and the upgraded textro cr720s are way better, but the braking performance in no way compares to a basic road bike. This is hugely scary going downhill in the wet with loaded panniers.

Just pulll harder on the levers you big sissy

oh you mean hills

FWIW, try changing the wheels to rims without a machined braking track. Then the brakes get really interesting

cougie

Maybe a tad out of budget - but I bloody love my planet x uncle john. Yeah I thought cantis were a bit weak to begin - but I did a very wet 75 miles on it on sunday and they've bedded in. No fork judder on mine - I hear that's quite common on the tricross ?
I have a 50-34 compact on mine with an 11-25 block and it gets me up and down all the nasty climbs- and it climbs like an angel.

The frame has a mount for a disc brake - so that's a possibility for the future - but I can't see me ever bothering - I was braking as well as my mate with his ultegra dual pivot brakes I think.

It is 999 - but worth every penny.

aldric

Thanks for all who have contributed, I now know a lot more about brakes and gearing

BUT! Oh, ffs!!! Just when I thought I had made my decision you all go and put a spanner in the works! :evil: I do appreciate it though, thank you.

The Croix De Fer looks great, I am just not sure I can justify spending that amount of money on a bike when I need to also get a fair amount of accessories as well.

Interesting thoughts regarding a change to disc brakes for CX's in the future, unfortauntely I don't have the time to wait.

Norky

aldric wrote:

The Croix De Fer looks great, I am just not sure I can justify spending that amount of money on a bike when I need to also get a fair amount of accessories as well.

Aye, the price is a bit of a sticking point for me. I'm hoping that manufacturers will start selling their cheaper Alu frames with discs next year, however "next year" doesn't really help you right now, sorry

richardvaltos

will3 wrote:

Just pulll harder on the levers you big sissy

oh you mean hills

aye muckle hills in jockland, pissing rain, and a winter bike that's only out of use for a weekend in mid June! Levers pulled to bars and still not slowing down :shock:

I really need to MTFU

Not long until I emigrate to sunny Perth though. (australia of course)

tailwindhome

Wiggle have a road bike (inc cx) sale on

You may want to check that out before buying

I'm currently struggling to avoid it

g00se

Also see if you can find a Kona Jake the Snake 2009 discounted - 105 groupset and carbon fork.

supersonic

Most brake problems are down to pads and matching leverage. When done right, no canti system is really any better than another.

will3

richardvaltos wrote:

will3 wrote:

Just pulll harder on the levers you big sissy

oh you mean hills

aye muckle hills in jockland, pissing rain, and a winter bike that's only out of use for a weekend in mid June! Levers pulled to bars and still not slowing down :shock:

I really need to MTFU

Not long until I emigrate to sunny Perth though. (australia of course)

FWIW I did all the same mods to my vapour and it's OK now, but then we only have 'hills' and I've lost a lot of weight . The problem I have with Cantis is not setting them up to give good braking, it' s that they don't stay good for very long and seem to forever need tweaking.

PS if your levers reach the bars, you're out of adjustment - the cables should snap first

El Capitano

Another one to consider - the Focus Mares. Used mine almost daily since Dec 2008. 105 specced.

bails87

Isn't there a Boardman CX now? If you're buying from Halfords?

aldric

Thanks for your replies.

Unfortuantely the Croix de Fer is sold out with Halfords for 2010 so thats a no,no just now. Although they were expecting the 2011 model by the end of July, which has not been put back (no idea when) and they don't know the price for the 2011 model.

Boardman do a CX bike, no idea how the spec compares? What is SRAM groupset? It is a nice looking bike. Back to the (possible) problem with the canti breaks tho (if it is really a problem?).

Frame Super butted 7005 Aluminium frame, BB30 bottom bracket shell, tapered head tube
Fork Full Monocoque Unidirectional carbon fork & steerer
Headset FSA Orbit C-40
Stem Ritchey Comp OS 31.8mm
Handlebars Ritchey Comp Road Logic
Seatpost Ritchey Comp 27.2mm x 300mm
Saddle cboardman, Cro-Mo rails
Brakes Tektro Cyclocross Cantilever brake (CR270)
Shifters SRAM Rival, carbon fibre
Rear Mech SRAM Rival
Front Mech SRAM Rival
Cassette Shimano 10 speed 11-27T
Chainset FSA Gossamer Pro Compact BB30 46T 36T
Chain Shimano 10 speed
Bottom Bracket FSA BB30
Rims Mavic CXP23
Hubs Alloy sealed bearing
Spokes Stainless steel double butted black
Tyres Ritchey Excavador Cross Pro 700x35
Pedals N/A
Weight* 19.9 lbs
All pricing and specs are correct at time of upload. Please check instore / online for current details.
*approx weight based on medium excl pedals
.

It seems that Halfords are running out of stock for 2010 models, makes me wonder if I am better of waiting for the 2011 models to be available? Possibly better for resale as well if I ever needed to do that?

holybinch

Jay dubbleU wrote:

Croix de Fer - Reynolds steel frame, full 105 chainset, Shimano discs

Not 105 anymore, only the back derailleur now

aldric wrote:

Thanks for your replies.

Unfortuantely the Croix de Fer is sold out with Halfords for 2010 so thats a no,no just now. Although they were expecting the 2011 model by the end of July, which has not been put back (no idea when) and they don't know the price for the 2011 model.

Strange, got mine from them last week!

thel33ter

The Boardman CX looks great in the flesh, and according the the Bikeradar review it is very good.

Agent57

aldric wrote:

Croix de Fer is sold out [...] and they don't know the price for the 2011 model.

According to this:

"The Croix de Fer is the same Tiagra-equipped, Reynolds-725-framed beast that we saw last year and the price remains at £1099. James at Genesis is looking at doing some work on the spec of the bike to get it back under the magic £1000 Cyclescheme mark,"

aldric

Thanks Agent57.

Seems a bit strange that they can just whack £100 on the tag and have nothing new! The Croix De Fer is definately out of the window then.

I still don't really want to spend £1k on a bike, even though I will be getting a nice discout through the ctw scheme. I will check outt he boardman review though, thanks.

Jay dubbleU

holybinch wrote:

Jay dubbleU wrote:

Croix de Fer - Reynolds steel frame, full 105 chainset, Shimano discs

Not 105 anymore, only the back derailleur now

aldric wrote:

Thanks for your replies.

Unfortuantely the Croix de Fer is sold out with Halfords for 2010 so thats a no,no just now. Although they were expecting the 2011 model by the end of July, which has not been put back (no idea when) and they don't know the price for the 2011 model.

Strange, got mine from them last week!

Looks like this years model has been built down to a price - no carbon forks either

holybinch

I have to say, style wise the steel fork fits better. But yeah, overall, specs aren't as good it seems as last year's.
Brilliant bit of kit though

Beer, anyone?

I have a Kona Jake and think it is pretty good value for money compared to some other CX's out there with the full tiagra kit, which is not half bad. As it is a triple there's plenty of gears (although not massive ones - but depending on your thighs that can be ok...). Although I do think the brakes are the worst out of all my bikes.

As for the price - I got mine on the C2W scheme with rear rack (a lot of CX bikes do not come with all the fittings for this, but I bought mine to take lightweight touring on and off road too), 2x20L panniers, handlebar bag, pedals and some more bits and bobs for the £1000.

My friend has the Genesis Croix de Fer for similar purposes and is pretty pleased with it too... I think for the money and the fact that there is nowt wrong with Tiagra, I got a better deal overall.

Good luck getting your new bike.

Beer, anyone?

Oh, I forgot the most important thing - The Jake looks cool too

will3

2011 genesis day 01 looks interesting