Why is MTBing so male-dominated?

hells

I am a girl who mtbs but I don't mind doing things solo. My first time mtbing was with the uni club they were very friendly and welcoming but I felt really bad as I was so slow and finding it so hard and didn't like the fact that i was holding them up (I had a £75 full suss appollo bike from halfords and made the mistake of wearing jeans to ride xc). These days I ride almost exclusively solo partly becuase my job (trainee paramedic) means I work when most normal people are off work and my day off is usually wednesday and partially becuase I don't know anyone to ride with. Now I live in London I have barely touched my mtb as there isn't anywhere to ride without a long dirve first and I think all the stuff nearish is natural trails not way marked and I don't want to get lost. I ride my mtb when I go home to Bristol around ashton court and cwmcarn or afan but again as I have to ride solo i prefer to go to trail centres where if I do have a bad mishap atleast there is a chance that someone will find me and there is no chance of getting lost. Attitudes from men at trail centres is pretty poor, you say you want to see more women but none of you say a word other than get out of the way. I ride almost exclusively road these days as I can do it from my doorstep and roadies are much more friendly and encouraging to women riders than mtbers are. The mechanical aspect of the sport is also abit of a problem I can change the inner tube and brake pads but thats about it, I worry about making my bike worse and having to spend even more money than if I just went to the shop in the first place.

LostNinja

I think that the mud and bruises argument is flawed, many women play sports that leave bruises and cause you to get muddy. You only have to watch field hockey to know that bruising doesn't put women off a sport.

However the lack of women doing extreme sports could be put down to how a female reacts to adrenaline.

Historically adrenaline triggered the flight of fight thing in males, while males would be far more likely to react with violence they would also run more often because for a man having a family just meant having lots of sex.

For a female it was a more involved process and adrenaline was used to protect her young, mostly that protection was to run away, there probably wasn't much enjoyment from triggering adrenaline outside of life or death situations. Whereas the males who have less involvement with the raising can trigger the flight of fight for the enjoyment of the actual feeling.

Move that forward to extreme sports and you can see that there is a markedly lower female participation of them (any of them). It's not because women are less able but because they get a different experience from them, while improving the overall experience of the sports will get more adherents involved it will never (IMO) get to the point where there are more women than men doing them.

Kiblams

hells wrote:

Attitudes from men at trail centres is pretty poor, you say you want to see more women but none of you say a word other than get out of the way. I ride almost exclusively road these days as I can do it from my doorstep and roadies are much more friendly and encouraging to women riders than mtbers are.

You are now saying MTBers have a bad attitude because they don't go out of their way to crowd around you to talk to you at trail centres? :shock:

CJC105

My girlfriend and I ride - in fact she got me back into it after I spent more time on the road, she remained faster and better than me for a couple of years, but she'd never go on her own due to map reading usually and it needs to have a social aspect for her so the more people we ride with or meet along the way the better.

It is interesting to see guys reactions though when she goes past them either up or down hills (if up hill a lot get off and look at their bike trying to find the flat tyre etc thats slowing them down or feel the need to try and get past again and if downhill just look generally angry) - its all much less friendly on the road bikes though where guys like being overtaken by girls even less. So guys aren't always too welcoming to the girls.

Aonther challenge is its really cold in the winter and girls have in general worse circulation.

Someone already made the point on ingrained skills from childhood, most guys probably spent year mucking around on bikes and can at least get down a red route if they had too, it takes girls longer to get to that stage when they start mtb'ing and therefore need a patient group to start with. But we now see a lot of girls doing the basic skills lessons if we ride in the surrey hills so I'd imagine femail particpation is growing quickly

mea00csf

LostNinja wrote:

I think that the mud and bruises argument is flawed, many women play sports that leave bruises and cause you to get muddy. You only have to watch field hockey to know that bruising doesn't put women off a sport.

Not really, girls play hockey at school, but very, very few will do so past their GCSEs.

I've got to say, i find it a little embarassing the amount of girls who site a fear of mechanicals and map reading as a reason to not mtb. :?

Quirrel

Because the female riders are doing time for trafficking

Stevo_666

LostNinja wrote:

I think that the mud and bruises argument is flawed, many women play sports that leave bruises and cause you to get muddy. You only have to watch field hockey to know that bruising doesn't put women off a sport.

Not that many play that sort of sport. The percentage of women who do a decent amount of regular exercise, let alone team sports, is pretty low.

hells

Kiblams wrote:

hells wrote:

Attitudes from men at trail centres is pretty poor, you say you want to see more women but none of you say a word other than get out of the way. I ride almost exclusively road these days as I can do it from my doorstep and roadies are much more friendly and encouraging to women riders than mtbers are.

You are now saying MTBers have a bad attitude because they don't go out of their way to crowd around you to talk to you at trail centres? :shock:

No thats not what i meant atall. Id rather you say nothing atall than shout get out of my way, if I'm in your way a shout of rider is enough and Il move over asap when it is safe for me to do so. Roadies generally wave or nod if passing in the opposite direction or if going in the same direction say hi or good morning/afternoon, most will also stop and ask if you need help if you are at the roadside with a problem (regardless of the gender of either party) the same is not true of mtbers. My point was that male roadies are more tolerant/friendl and patient towards female cyclists than male mtbers are towards female mtbers which is interesting seeing as most here claim to want to see more women mtbers.

Kiblams

hells wrote:

No thats not what i meant atall. Id rather you say nothing atall than shout get out of my way, if I'm in your way a shout of rider is enough and Il move over asap when it is safe for me to do so. Roadies generally wave or nod if passing in the opposite direction or if going in the same direction say hi or good morning/afternoon, most will also stop and ask if you need help if you are at the roadside with a problem (regardless of the gender of either party) the same is not true of mtbers. My point was that male roadies are more tolerant/friendl and patient towards female cyclists than male mtbers are towards female mtbers which is interesting seeing as most here claim to want to see more women mtbers.

I am not sure where you ride, but it's certainly not at the same places as me and the wife...

paul.skibum

Girls dont ride because it hurts their vaginas. I did a survey its true.

There may be other reasons but this is the main one.

hells

Kiblams wrote:

hells wrote:

No thats not what i meant atall. Id rather you say nothing atall than shout get out of my way, if I'm in your way a shout of rider is enough and Il move over asap when it is safe for me to do so. Roadies generally wave or nod if passing in the opposite direction or if going in the same direction say hi or good morning/afternoon, most will also stop and ask if you need help if you are at the roadside with a problem (regardless of the gender of either party) the same is not true of mtbers. My point was that male roadies are more tolerant/friendl and patient towards female cyclists than male mtbers are towards female mtbers which is interesting seeing as most here claim to want to see more women mtbers.

I am not sure where you ride, but it's certainly not at the same places as me and the wife...

Cwmcarn, Afan/glyncorwg (sp?) ashton ct. I may have just been unlucky with the MTB side of things compared to the road side of things.

Bling Bling

I wonder if it relates to outdoor sports in general. How many of the girls on here were brought up with the scouting movement, went on school outdoor persuit trips or went camping/walking with their families or similar? When I was younger I thought everyone did that sort of thing.

Anonymous

Bling Bling wrote:

I wonder if it relates to outdoor sports in general. How many of the girls on here were brought up with the scouting movement, went on school outdoor persuit trips or went camping/walking with their families or similar? When I was younger I thought everyone did that sort of thing.

Now, having never been a cub, or a scout, and only knowing ONE person who was, I'll admit that my knowledge of the matter is very limited.
but...

Wouldn't the girls have gone to "brownies", not scouts?

Briggo

Brownies/guides didn't go away camping etc half as much as the scouts used too when I was in it 10 years ago.

However now girls can join the scouts and participate in more of the outdoor events.

Anonymous

MY sister was in the brownies, and went to stay away with them several weekends, but not camping though. They didn;t seem to be too big on the whole outdoor pursuits thing.
My mate who was in the scouts though, probably only went camping about 4 times in the entire years he spens in cubs and scouts. And he's one of the least "outdoorsy" folk you could ever hope to meet.

What I mean is, I really don't think that's got anything to do with it.

mea00csf

hells wrote:

Kiblams wrote:

hells wrote:

No thats not what i meant atall. Id rather you say nothing atall than shout get out of my way, if I'm in your way a shout of rider is enough and Il move over asap when it is safe for me to do so. Roadies generally wave or nod if passing in the opposite direction or if going in the same direction say hi or good morning/afternoon, most will also stop and ask if you need help if you are at the roadside with a problem (regardless of the gender of either party) the same is not true of mtbers. My point was that male roadies are more tolerant/friendl and patient towards female cyclists than male mtbers are towards female mtbers which is interesting seeing as most here claim to want to see more women mtbers.

I am not sure where you ride, but it's certainly not at the same places as me and the wife...

Cwmcarn, Afan/glyncorwg (sp?) ashton ct. I may have just been unlucky with the MTB side of things compared to the road side of things.

Always found most mtb ers to be generally friendly, you don't tend to pass as many as you do on a road, as for the most part even general bridleways tend to have a favoured direction which most people tend to go. Saying that no-one gives you a nod and a hello at a trail centre is kinda like saying no-one in London gives you smile when you walk down the street

Where are my stabilisers?

I'm not scared of the mechanical side of things - Firstly, you don't need to be a mechanic to ride a bike and secondly, not all men make good mechanics (I have actually been gobsmacked in the past by how some men can't figure out the smallest of mechanical problems )! I have a bash at most things and have built up one bike from scratch and have replaced loads of parts on others... Obviously helped by taking a lot of advice from this forum!

For a lot of women, the idea of mtb is their worst nightmare. For me, I grew up on my bike, I was always on it! It was probably when I went to uni that I stopped riding and I didn't take it up again untill I was 27. By this time of course, I had lost the confidence you have as a kid and started fearing the smallest of challenges. This has changed again now, I'm back tackling more technical stuff and going faster than ever(well downhill anyway)!

I am an outdoor sort of person and I was brought up in a mechanically minded family. My sisters were brought up the same, one of them would find throwing herself down a mountain a horrible experience, the other would be better than me - if she hadn't have stopped riding when she grew up and lost her confidence (she would tackle the harder stuff when we were kids).

I think that less women want to do it, but the more popular it becomes, the more you will see people like me getting back on their bikes! I ride by myself most of the time though, because none of my friends want to ride mtb and I can't seem to get my sister back on her bike either :roll:

alitodd

Hmmm... difficult one. I suppose it is aimed at men, but more of that later.

Firstly, look at the difference in times between men's and women's DH WC times. 5:27 for women, 4:02 for men. See the difference? 1:25. On a 5 minute track, that's a hugeeee difference. Having 'women specific' bikes and kit also gives the impression that they're unusual and need to be catered for/ pampered... like they're not proper mountain bikers.

And there are brands who portray women as objects... at the mag i work with this week we had to turn down a brand for testing... nooki bikes i think. the logo was a silhouette of a woman in crosshairs (the scope thing)... just not suitable.

gazeddy

There are more women near me riding and starting to ride. Was in the bike shop and there must have been four or five women leaving with new mtbs

Bling Bling

yeehaamcgee

What I mean is, I really don't think that's got anything to do with it.

Lol, well that's my anecdotal theory out then!
Btw, fyi the "scouting movement" refers to the whole lot - brownies, guides, cubs, scouts et al.

alitodd

Having 'women specific' bikes and kit also gives the impression that they're unusual and need to be catered for/ pampered... like they're not proper mountain bikers

From my experience the exact opposite is true; I really appreciate that there is women specific kit, nothing offensive or derogatory about that at all. It's the same in every other aspect of life, why shouldn't the gender differences be acknowledged in mtbing?

alitodd

From my experience the exact opposite is true; I really appreciate that there is women specific kit, nothing offensive or derogatory about that at all. It's the same in every other aspect of life, why shouldn't the gender differences be acknowledged in mtbing?

I suppose what I meant is that men's bikes/ kit aren't labelled 'mens' (except in halfords) , which (to my eyes anyway) shows that men are the priority and the main gender, which might be off-putting?

Anonymous

Bling Bling wrote:

Btw, fyi the "scouting movement" refers to the whole lot - brownies, guides, cubs, scouts et al.

Ah, I did not know that :oops:

I do know that Scout Enterprises or whateverererer they're called, do a mind boggling variety of things!
I think "new deal for musicians" has something to do with them, even!

Northwind

hells wrote:

Attitudes from men at trail centres is pretty poor, you say you want to see more women but none of you say a word

We're just too scared to speak to women Actually, to be totally fair here I think a lot of people have bad attitudes to other people at trail centres, it's not neccesarily an anti-woman thing, I think it's just a being a knobber thing. It's certainly not just women that get "Get out of the way".

OTOH I did offer to help 2 girls who were having some sort of mechanical, and got dog's abuse for it, "Do you think women can't repair their own bikes?".

BigShot

CraigXXL wrote:

Strangley I see this now reversed in the younger generations coming through where you are getting more girls taking risk and the lads bottling it with them getting ribbed by the girl.

Insert comment about the imasculation of young men though the social unacceptability of many traditionally "boy" things, like mucking about with knives (make knives seem like tools, they'll be used as such by many... make them seem like weapons and they'll be used as such by the few) fighting, climbin trees and fences ('elf and safety gone mad) and all that jazz.

It's great that more women are ripping harder, but I'd rather see that without all the soft rubbish that's taking over society and trying to sugar-coat and bubble-wrap everything.

GRR!

alitodd wrote:

Having 'women specific' bikes and kit also gives the impression that they're unusual and need to be catered for/ pampered... like they're not proper mountain bikers.

I'd never considered that.
I just thought it made sense to have kit that's designed for a different body shape.
Is that seriously an issue, do you think?
Are some guys really that bone headed? Are some girls that determined to be "one of the guys" that they'd rather a bike that worked against them than one they could rip on properly?
Odd stuff.
(EDIT - I just saw your comment on this page about it being "bikes" vs "womens bikes". Hadn't considered that.


Interesting points about the DH times.
I've never really followed the pro side of the sport so have never seen it spelled out like that.
I wonder why that is.

Northwind wrote:

OTOH I did offer to help 2 girls who were having some sort of mechanical, and got dog's abuse for it, "Do you think women can't repair their own bikes?".

Grr... women with a chip on their shoulder about being women.
Does my HEAD in.

"No, you stuck up, needlessly defensive MORON...I didn't offer help because you're a WOMAN - but because I'm friendly and helpful; because you've had a mechanical and because I might be able to help with tools, experience or just a third brain to figure things out. If you're going to be like that though, I'll carry on the great ride I've been having - I'm sorry to have inconvenienced you by taking time out of MY day and MY ride to see if you needed help."
I'd probably mutter "what an unfriendly, stuck-up idiot" as I pedalled away, making sure it could be heard, just to make the point.

I might even have sarcastically made a seriously condescending comment if I saw them later on, but by then I'd probably have had so much fun I'd be totally "over it" and not bother.

Bling Bling

alitodd I see where you're coming from now - interesting point. I think the women specific thing, being labelled as you describe, is a symptom rather than the cause.


BigShot

I might even have sarcastically made a seriously condescending comment if I saw them later on, but by then I'd probably have had so much fun I'd be totally "over it" and not bother.

LMAO! Every time you cross them on the trail, come back at them with, "And another thing..."

andyrm

hells wrote:

Kiblams wrote:

hells wrote:

No thats not what i meant atall. Id rather you say nothing atall than shout get out of my way, if I'm in your way a shout of rider is enough and Il move over asap when it is safe for me to do so. Roadies generally wave or nod if passing in the opposite direction or if going in the same direction say hi or good morning/afternoon, most will also stop and ask if you need help if you are at the roadside with a problem (regardless of the gender of either party) the same is not true of mtbers. My point was that male roadies are more tolerant/friendl and patient towards female cyclists than male mtbers are towards female mtbers which is interesting seeing as most here claim to want to see more women mtbers.

I am not sure where you ride, but it's certainly not at the same places as me and the wife...

Cwmcarn, Afan/glyncorwg (sp?) ashton ct. I may have just been unlucky with the MTB side of things compared to the road side of things.

Sounds like you've been very unlucky Hells!! Next time you're in Bristol, make sure you hook up with Bristol Mountain Bike Club - we've got good numbers of girl riders and a proper friendly vibe towards new riders.

Thewaylander

To be honest from my experience its a question of attitude most times.

Some girls I have ridden with go with the approach that they are girl, and therefore can not be as good, they use being a girl as an excuse to avoid pushing themselves, so when a woman see's little improvement they give up. I mean I hear this on trails a fair bit looking at something rooty as you pass people, and the excuse is pulle out to avoid trying or why they can't ride as far.

But its simply practice and training, I blame society strongly for this as woman have been raised up untill fairly recently to not think of them as being as not being as capable as men physically, and in some respects they can't be(pure weight lifts and so on) but mostly they can and they just need help developing the right attitude.

Riding particularly focus of balance, weight shift and fitness, Not strength as such there is nothing to hold them back. But again its a sociably exceptable thing, Speeking to my cousin she laughed at me talking about a ladies we ride with as her words now as a Birmingham city girl 'ooo thats not very lady like' and it hink this is another reason, rough possibly dangerous sports are frowned on by women in general as its not lady like

All this social implecation adds up to loads of bloke bikers, and few ladies.

BigShot

Haha!

I was thinking more of the kind of "don't worry your pretty little head about it" condescending comment made in a very sarcastic mock-chauvenism way.

I think I prefer the "and another thing" one though. :P
Better still if they are still fixing the problem at the side of the trail (on a short loop, I'm that good).

Ronocco111

Well, clearly men are just best (Snigger, snigger, waiting for reaction)

BigShot

Well that goes without saying.