Annoyed a cyclist today-didn't take much.

DonDaddyD

RichardSwt wrote:

Coming through Wimbledon (the major cross roads by the station) this evening I spotted a car full on taking up one lane of the ASL.

I was going to wag my finger and note the response for research purposes.

I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I know they were in the wrong, but it just didn't seem like, causing a fuss over.

Sorry, but that's honestly what I thought at the time.

There is a high possibility that might have been me, bright red SEAT indicating to turn right.

Completely my fault, I was approaching the lights when they were green and needed to turn right. There were two cars ahead of me already at the lights waiting to turn right also. There was a bus in the other direction waiting to turn to his right (so meeting situation) and cars in both direction going straight.

I got into the ASL behind the car's ahead as the lights were green, by the time the two cars ahead of me had turned right the lights were turning red, I couldn't see oncoming traffic due to the bus opposite me, so I didn't go. I took the lesser, safer, offense. I later reversed out of the ASL.

Heading towards Colliers Wood that junction is notorious for leaving a car stranded between light phases - if they're turning right because there is only a few seconds to do so.

Had a cyclist complain I'd accept it, if he was turning right I'd want him ahead of my car where I can see him.

It happens.

BSRU

DonDaddyD wrote:

RichardSwt wrote:

Coming through Wimbledon (the major cross roads by the station) this evening I spotted a car full on taking up one lane of the ASL.

I was going to wag my finger and note the response for research purposes.

I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I know they were in the wrong, but it just didn't seem like, causing a fuss over.

Sorry, but that's honestly what I thought at the time.

There is a high possibility that might have been me, bright red SEAT indicating to turn right.

Completely my fault, I was approaching the lights when they were green and needed to turn right. There were two cars ahead of me already at the lights waiting to turn right also. There was a bus in the other direction waiting to turn to his right (so meeting situation) and cars in both direction going straight.

I got into the ASL behind the car's ahead as the lights were green, by the time the two cars ahead of me had turned right the lights were turning red, I couldn't see oncoming traffic due to the bus opposite me, so I didn't go. I took the lesser, safer, offense. I later reversed out of the ASL.

Heading towards Colliers Wood that junction is notorious for leaving a car stranded between light phases - if they're turning right because there is only a few seconds to do so.

Had a cyclist complain I'd accept it, if he was turning right I'd want him ahead of my car where I can see him.

It happens.

As far as I am aware if you are stopped in the ASL, waiting to move, and the light changes to amber then red it is perfectly fine. The only problem would be someone who did not see this, coming along and assuming you had stopped there after the change to red.

shouldbeinbed

BSRU wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

RichardSwt wrote:

Coming through Wimbledon (the major cross roads by the station) this evening I spotted a car full on taking up one lane of the ASL.

I was going to wag my finger and note the response for research purposes.

I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I know they were in the wrong, but it just didn't seem like, causing a fuss over.

Sorry, but that's honestly what I thought at the time.

There is a high possibility that might have been me, bright red SEAT indicating to turn right.

Completely my fault, I was approaching the lights when they were green and needed to turn right. There were two cars ahead of me already at the lights waiting to turn right also. There was a bus in the other direction waiting to turn to his right (so meeting situation) and cars in both direction going straight.

I got into the ASL behind the car's ahead as the lights were green, by the time the two cars ahead of me had turned right the lights were turning red, I couldn't see oncoming traffic due to the bus opposite me, so I didn't go. I took the lesser, safer, offense. I later reversed out of the ASL.

Heading towards Colliers Wood that junction is notorious for leaving a car stranded between light phases - if they're turning right because there is only a few seconds to do so.

Had a cyclist complain I'd accept it, if he was turning right I'd want him ahead of my car where I can see him.

It happens.

As far as I am aware if you are stopped in the ASL, waiting to move, and the light changes to amber then red it is perfectly fine. The only problem would be someone who did not see this, coming along and assuming you had stopped there after the change to red.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo don't be reasonable, Burn the motorised heretic

Joking honest - like it or not, on the real world roads nowaday,s it's easily done to get caught out of position by a ditherer or badly phased lights/mad traffic planning allied to too much traffic .

rml380z

BSRU wrote:

As far as I am aware if you are stopped in the ASL, waiting to move, and the light changes to amber then red it is perfectly fine. The only problem would be someone who did not see this, coming along and assuming you had stopped there after the change to red.

This has been covered earlier in this thread; you shouldn't enter the ASL if the exit from it is blocked by traffic, so the car driver is still at fault.

Butterd2

Back to the OP I think a lot of people seem to be missing the point, as I see it the gist was that a cyclist should be careful who they choose to wag their finger at.
I think this is a very valid point and, even as a 2nd row forward during the winter months, I will bite my tongue if I'm upset by the driving of a certain type of car, driven by a certain type of person in a certain part of London. The fact that I was in the right according to the highway code would be of little comfort to my wife and kids should they decide to react badly.
It is of course possible this is exactly what the cyclist did and made the judgement he could make his opinions known without you then deliberately running him over?

DonDaddyD

rml380z wrote:

BSRU wrote:

As far as I am aware if you are stopped in the ASL, waiting to move, and the light changes to amber then red it is perfectly fine. The only problem would be someone who did not see this, coming along and assuming you had stopped there after the change to red.

This has been covered earlier in this thread; you shouldn't enter the ASL if the exit from it is blocked by traffic, so the car driver is still at fault.

Have a look at the junction, complete with the car in the ASL

Where that car won't be able to see is::

i) Oncoming traffic, obscured by the bus and the cars turning right.
ii) His turning.
iii) Car's coming from his right.

Also, oncoming cars won't see him either due to the bus irrespective of being in the box or not.

If you are turning right, you need to be either in the yellow box or just before it. To turn right between the light phase (because the lights don't allow time for this) you need to be either ahead of the ASL, or just in it ready to react - hope that an oncoming car doesn't chase yellow, its happened.

I fully accept that I should have waited behind the ASL.

jonny_trousers

Reversing back out of an ASL you accidentally find yourself in sounds a hell of a lot more dangerous than staying put and keeping an eye out for any cyclist who may turn up.

Surely riding or driving safely is as much about common sense as it is the rules of the road and antagonising your fellow road users, no matter how right you are, does not sound like common sense to me.

DonDaddyD

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Reversing back out of an ASL you accidentally find yourself in sounds a hell of a lot more dangerous than staying put and keeping an eye out for any cyclist who may turn up.

Surely riding or driving safely is as much about common sense as it is the rules of the road and antagonising your fellow road users, no matter how right you are, does not sound like common sense to me.

Why would reversing a out of an ASL be dangerous, if you can clearly see that nothing is behind you?

Is reversing actually dangerous, illegal, or just in your opinion bad/dangerous?

Is there a distance whereby reversing becomes dangerous?

rjsterry

In London, the chances of having space to reverse are extremely small, and I think that was what JT was referring to, but yes, if the road is clear, then one could reverse out of the ASL. I don't think this would be dangerous in itself, only dependent on other traffic, but then that applies to most driving manoeuvres. I have often seen people ease back a couple of feet when in a queue to let someone cross into/out of a side turning. On a couple of occasions I have been right behind, and the person reversing didn't really check their mirrors first. Reversing on a bike in cleats can be a bit tricky without skinning your shins.

Squarepants

Whats an ASL :?

rjsterry

Squarepants wrote:

Whats an ASL :?

Advanced Stop Line - the green (or blue or non-coloured) box ahead of the main stop line at a set of lights, usually with a picture of a bike in it.

dUNC

Reversing on the main carriageway is generally considered a bit of a no-no isn't it? (other than parallel parking I guess) Certainly it's a bit of an instant lose in insurance terms if you hit something. And you can never really see everything in reverse; you need to be constantly checking both wings and behind, so by definition if you're looking in one wing and someone steps out behind the other you can't see them.

My view is that we can get a bit territorial about this and if a car ends up in an ASL due to a genuine mistake or because they genuinely expected to turn right and the phasing of the lights (which is shocking sometimes - if you stay behind the ASL at some lights you wouldn't get through!) catches you out, it's not exactly the end of the world. Similarly if someone wags a finger cos you've made a mistake, it's not the end of the world.

It's the t!ts that rock up after the lights change oblivious to the ASL that's the problem. Like the divs that actually pull up to the side of you in the ASL where there's two lanes, I'm a bit like "WTF?".

UndercoverElephant

dUNC wrote:

Reversing on the main carriageway is generally considered a bit of a no-no isn't it? (other than parallel parking I guess) Certainly it's a bit of an instant lose in insurance terms if you hit something. And you can never really see everything in reverse; you need to be constantly checking both wings and behind, so by definition if you're looking in one wing and someone steps out behind the other you can't see them.

Perfectly legal to reverse on a main carriageway, just not to reverse onto one.

Does that even make sense?

dUNC

That does make sense ye.

I meant "no-no" in the best practice sense rather than legality sense, and with respect to the (as I understand it) insurance industry's "if you're in reverse you're at fault" rule (seems to be the case most of the time anyway).

i.e. you'll not get nicked for reversing on the carriageway, but it's advisable not to if at all possible

(which reminds me of a trip to Cornwall last month where I was almost taken out on a roundabout by a bloke that was reversing back up an slip road to the A30, and onto the roundabout :shock: )

Anonymous

DonDaddyD wrote:

RichardSwt wrote:

Coming through Wimbledon (the major cross roads by the station) this evening I spotted a car full on taking up one lane of the ASL.

I was going to wag my finger and note the response for research purposes.

I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I know they were in the wrong, but it just didn't seem like, causing a fuss over.

Sorry, but that's honestly what I thought at the time.

There is a high possibility that might have been me, bright red SEAT indicating to turn right.

Completely my fault, I was approaching the lights when they were green and needed to turn right. There were two cars ahead of me already at the lights waiting to turn right also. There was a bus in the other direction waiting to turn to his right (so meeting situation) and cars in both direction going straight.

I got into the ASL behind the car's ahead as the lights were green, by the time the two cars ahead of me had turned right the lights were turning red, I couldn't see oncoming traffic due to the bus opposite me, so I didn't go. I took the lesser, safer, offense. I later reversed out of the ASL.

Heading towards Colliers Wood that junction is notorious for leaving a car stranded between light phases - if they're turning right because there is only a few seconds to do so.

Had a cyclist complain I'd accept it, if he was turning right I'd want him ahead of my car where I can see him.

It happens.

Nah, sorry it was a blonde lady in a big Merc. Would have been funny if it was though.

BSRU

rml380z wrote:

BSRU wrote:

As far as I am aware if you are stopped in the ASL, waiting to move, and the light changes to amber then red it is perfectly fine. The only problem would be someone who did not see this, coming along and assuming you had stopped there after the change to red.

This has been covered earlier in this thread; you shouldn't enter the ASL if the exit from it is blocked by traffic, so the car driver is still at fault.

I stand by my original post as the Highway Code states "should" and not "MUST". Remembering "should" is advice, "MUST/MUST NOT" are not.
178

Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.

The HC clearly states to stop at the second/forward stop line if the light changes to red even if the car is located in the ASL.

DCowling

I had it happen to me this morning
I know he was racing for the green but did not make it, but the problem was that he was turning left and had positioned himself all the way over to the right ( only in a hatchback!!)
so I had to sit behind him and swing past his right hand side, putting me in the middle of the road with a car behind me wanting to turn right.
Not the end of the world as it was 5.30am but would have been bloody dodgy during rush hour.
Respect to all of you who commute in the city, must be mad, I much prefer the sticks, even if the roads are not quite as well maintained .

rjsterry

DCowling wrote:

I had it happen to me this morning
I know he was racing for the green but did not make it, but the problem was that he was turning left and had positioned himself all the way over to the right ( only in a hatchback!!)
so I had to sit behind him and swing past his right hand side, putting me in the middle of the road with a car behind me wanting to turn right.
Not the end of the world as it was 5.30am but would have been bloody dodgy during rush hour.
Respect to all of you who commute in the city, must be mad, I much prefer the sticks, even if the roads are not quite as well maintained .

What makes you think the roads are well maintained in town? If anything, they are worse as they are constantly being dug up for one utility or another.

Headhuunter

rjsterry wrote:

DCowling wrote:

I had it happen to me this morning
I know he was racing for the green but did not make it, but the problem was that he was turning left and had positioned himself all the way over to the right ( only in a hatchback!!)
so I had to sit behind him and swing past his right hand side, putting me in the middle of the road with a car behind me wanting to turn right.
Not the end of the world as it was 5.30am but would have been bloody dodgy during rush hour.
Respect to all of you who commute in the city, must be mad, I much prefer the sticks, even if the roads are not quite as well maintained .

What makes you think the roads are well maintained in town? If anything, they are worse as they are constantly being dug up for one utility or another.

London roads are some of the worst I've ever experienced. As you say they spend half their life getting dug up and the other half under some of the largest traffic densities in the UK and councils in London don't have any more money than others to maintain roads. The roads by my parents and out in Kent where I do my weekend club rides are far smoother.

DCowling

okay, stand corrected

I consider my self lucky on all counts ,that to go on a rural ride I have only about half a mile to the nearest B road and never need to venture into the city.

Mind you saying that, it does get a little moody when the spotty chavs in their blinged up boom box on wheels come round the lanes thinking they are in a Scoobydoo WRC car