Armstrong contradicts sworn testimony

micron

Bonnie Ford at ESPN no longer beating around the bush:
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/n ... id=5380225

Please delete if this has been posted - the VeloNation piece is also good:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4892/ ... ation.aspx

Favourite quotes: "Like I said, as long as we have a legitimate and credible and fair investigation I will be happy to co-operate but I'm not going to participate in any kind of witch hunt. I''ve done too many good things for too many people," he said.

"As long as I live I will deny that," he said about encouraging others to dope. "There is absolutely no way I forced people, encouraged people, told people, helped people, facilitated...absolutely not. 100 percent."

Bakunin

Why would he comment? Does this put pressure on the Hog? Why would he do that?

Is he feeling gravity's pull?

I wonder what the interaction has been like between the Shack and JV, and between Lance and Hancapie/Dave Z.

Is the peloton chilly despite the heat in France?

ratsbeyfus

BikingBernie

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4892/ ... ation.aspx

Some great stuff in there.

I will be happy to co-operate but I'm not going to participate in any kind of witch hunt," he told USA Today before the start of the tenth stage. "I've done too many good things for too many people,"

I.e. 'You can't jail me for fraud and doping, I'm the patron saint of cancer."

Armstrong argued that the doping allegations should be investigated by the International Cycling Union (UCI) or the World Anti-Doping Agency.

I.e. "The UCI have protected me for years, and I don't want that cosy relationship to end"

"As long as I live I will deny that," he said about encouraging others to dope. "There is absolutely no way I forced people, encouraged people, told people, helped people, facilitated...absolutely not. 100 percent."

No denial anymore the he himself doped then?

DaveyL

BikingBernie wrote:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4892/Lance-Armstrong-contradicts-testimony-says-he-will-cooperate-with-Landis-investigation.aspx

Some great stuff in there.

I will be happy to co-operate but I'm not going to participate in any kind of witch hunt," he told USA Today before the start of the tenth stage. "I've done too many good things for too many people,"

I.e. 'You can't jail me for fraud and doping, I'm the patron saint of cancer."

Do you actually think he thinks that would be a credible defence?

BikingBernie wrote:

Armstrong argued that the doping allegations should be investigated by the International Cycling Union (UCI) or the World Anti-Doping Agency.

I.e. "The UCI have protected me for years, and I don't want that cosy relationship to end"

And his cosy relationship with, er, WADA. Oh, hang on.

BikingBernie wrote:

"There is absolutely no way I forced people, encouraged people, told people, helped people, facilitated...absolutely not. 100 percent."

No denial anymore the he himself doped then?

Depends what allegation/question he is responding to - might be a question asking if he pressured other riders to dope. Oh what a surprise, Howard, you missed out " he said about encouraging others to dope." from the last quote.

Selective lifting of quotes again, eh? The Politburo would be proud of you.

Seriously, the guy's about to get nailed by the Feds and this is the best you can do?

Bakunin

The Landis/Verbruggen exchanges are really funny.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/verbrug ... a-nuisance

BikingBernie

DaveyL wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

"There is absolutely no way I forced people, encouraged people, told people, helped people, facilitated...absolutely not. 100 percent."

No denial anymore the he himself doped then?

Oh what a surprise, Howard, you missed out " he said about encouraging others to dope." from the last quote.Selective lifting of quotes again, eh? The Politburo would be proud of you.

I've given the quote in full, just for you. Still doesn't amount to a denial that he himself doped. Let's see how long he maintains that particular lie.

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

Seriously, the guy's about to get nailed by the Feds and this is the best you can do?

Shhhhh. The Feds are American and therefore not worthy of any respect. Unless they're Bill Hick or Greg Lemond. You know the rules.

Bakunin

Bernie -- we really don't need your interpretation of the quotes.

DaveyL

BikingBernie wrote:

DaveyL wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

"There is absolutely no way I forced people, encouraged people, told people, helped people, facilitated...absolutely not. 100 percent."

No denial anymore the he himself doped then?

Oh what a surprise, Howard, you missed out " he said about encouraging others to dope." from the last quote.Selective lifting of quotes again, eh? The Politburo would be proud of you.

I've given the quote in full, just for you. Still doesn't amount to a denial that he himself doped. Let's see hew long he maintains that particular lie.

And if he'd denied something he hadn't been asked about, I'm sure that would go down well with you.

Really, I think in general if you have a sound argument, there is no need to distort or exaggerate. This is going to be about as sound as it gets, but you still can't help yourself, can you?

As another poster would say - lightweight.

donrhummy

Um...did you guys not read the whole article? The article actually contradicts itself with actual quotes:

Under oath, Bill Stapleton said:

Stapleton added that he did not think that Armstrong's ownership in Tailwind had been formalized prior to the 2004 Tour.

"It was certainly intended by the summer of 2004," Stapleton testified. "I don't think it was executed."

So if that's correct, Lance did NOT own the team until it was no longer US Postal and Landis was no longer on the team.

(And if you read Lance's statement under oath, he says the person who would know when he got ownership would be Bill Stapleton)

micron

But that's not the point is it? The point is, Armstrong stated that he was simply a lowly rider under contract to Tailwind with no ownership stake in the company. That is a proven falsehood which calls into question the veracity of his other statements. The fact that Stapleton, also under oath, backed up Armstrong's claim calls its veracity further into question.

"[Armstrong] identified himself as a co-owner under oath, and he never retracted it," Tillotson told ESPN.com Wednesday in a telephone interview from his Dallas office. "We assumed those statements were truthful when he gave them. Put it this way -- there were many statements Lance Armstrong gave under oath that we had trouble believing. This was not one of them."

At the end of the day, Armstrong's credibility is now firmly in question. I imagine that documents from Tailwind have already been subpoenaed - as iainf has pointed out, Armstrong has a habit of pre-empting issues.

paulcuthbert

Bakunin wrote:

Bernie -- we really don't need your interpretation of the quotes.

+1

Actually, +5,000,000,000!!!

jonnycon

Wow, what are you going to debate when LA finishes ?

BikingBernie

paulcuthbert wrote:

+1

Actually, +5,000,000,000!!!

In that case I'll make sure that I keep them coming, just for fanboys like you.

westerburk

BikingBernie wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

+1

Actually, +5,000,000,000!!!

In that case I'll make sure that I keep them coming, just for fanboys like you.

keep the faith bernie.

keep the faith

Ave gone but not forgotten Calves

paulcuthbert

BikingBernie wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

+1

Actually, +5,000,000,000!!!

In that case I'll make sure that I keep them coming, just for fanboys like you.

I love that you think it bothers me to be called a fan boy

donrhummy

micron wrote:

But that's not the point is it? The point is, Armstrong stated that he was simply a lowly rider under contract to Tailwind with no ownership stake in the company. That is a proven falsehood which calls into question the veracity of his other statements. The fact that Stapleton, also under oath, backed up Armstrong's claim calls its veracity further into question.

No, the point is he said he was just a rider while on US POSTAL. It appears he was correct on that issue. And that's the only time that's important here because THAT is when Floyd says the bike sale fraud occurred.

dave_1

donrhummy wrote:

micron wrote:

But that's not the point is it? The point is, Armstrong stated that he was simply a lowly rider under contract to Tailwind with no ownership stake in the company. That is a proven falsehood which calls into question the veracity of his other statements. The fact that Stapleton, also under oath, backed up Armstrong's claim calls its veracity further into question.

No, the point is he said he was just a rider while on US POSTAL. It appears he was correct on that issue. And that's the only time that's important here because THAT is when Floyd says the bike sale fraud occurred.

he's got a credible defence then. He wasn't involved in managing US sponsorship monies. I somehow doubt betsy's word will be sufficient to put LA in jail...Tyler looks like he could talk. Hincapie's only rich cause of LA...he'd be a nobody needing a full-time job for 20 years post cycling just to live...I do believe he would take a bullet for LA

Monty Dog

Just to make it clear, because he was only the user and not the dealer, that makes it OK? :roll:

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

he's got a credible defence then. He wasn't involved in managing US sponsorship monies. I somehow doubt betsy's word will be sufficient to put LA in jail...Tyler looks like he could talk. Hincapie's only rich cause of LA...he'd be a nobody needing a full-time job for 20 years post cycling just to live...I do believe he would take a bullet for LA

You think a man with a young family who decided a few years ago that he didn't want do doping any more is prepared to go to jail to protect Armstrongs interests?

iainf72

donrhummy wrote:

No, the point is he said he was just a rider while on US POSTAL. It appears he was correct on that issue. And that's the only time that's important here because THAT is when Floyd says the bike sale fraud occurred.

That's a big assumption there Don. Don't you think Novitzky probably knows a bit more about what he's doing than we do? Why would you think the selling of bikes for doping or whatever would suddenly stop?

The Feds are building a big case - In the grand scheme of things, Landis is going to point them in a direction but ultimately they'll find out things themselves.

That SCA testimony is going to bite Armstrong.

mididoctors

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

he's got a credible defence then. He wasn't involved in managing US sponsorship monies. I somehow doubt betsy's word will be sufficient to put LA in jail...Tyler looks like he could talk. Hincapie's only rich cause of LA...he'd be a nobody needing a full-time job for 20 years post cycling just to live...I do believe he would take a bullet for LA

You think a man with a young family who decided a few years ago that he didn't want do doping any more is prepared to go to jail to protect Armstrongs interests?

Landis didn't...

I think it likely they will fall on each other

Landis already has

but its not a cert

Dgh

"I was a rider on the team, I was contracted with Tailwind Sports, I never had any dealings -- any -- with the Postal Service -- zero," Armstrong said. "I didn't own the company. I didn't have an equity stake. I didn't have a profit stake, I didn't have a seat on the board. I can't be any clearer than that."

Unless I've misread something, in his SCA testimony Armstrong was speaking about owning a stake in Tailwind. In the above quote, he's talking about the US Postal Service. A different legal entity. So unless I'm mistaken, Armstrong hasn't contradicted himself here.

disgruntledgoat

Dgh wrote:

"I was a rider on the team, I was contracted with Tailwind Sports, I never had any dealings -- any -- with the Postal Service -- zero," Armstrong said. "I didn't own the company. I didn't have an equity stake. I didn't have a profit stake, I didn't have a seat on the board. I can't be any clearer than that."

Unless I've misread something, in his SCA testimony Armstrong was speaking about owning a stake in Tailwind. In the above quote, he's talking about the US Postal Service. A different legal entity. So unless I'm mistaken, Armstrong hasn't contradicted himself here.

Tailewind owned the team setup, the USPS financed it.

The allegation is that the team (owned by Tailwind) took the American publics money, and either spent it on cheating or laundered it through bike sales and then spent it on fraud. Whether Armstrong brokered the deal with the post office or not is neither here nor there.

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

he's got a credible defence then. He wasn't involved in managing US sponsorship monies. I somehow doubt betsy's word will be sufficient to put LA in jail...Tyler looks like he could talk. Hincapie's only rich cause of LA...he'd be a nobody needing a full-time job for 20 years post cycling just to live...I do believe he would take a bullet for LA

You think a man with a young family who decided a few years ago that he didn't want do doping any more is prepared to go to jail to protect Armstrongs interests?

But Armstrong will make sure that his family are well looked after and there will always be a job for him when he gets out. But if he talks they will be pariahs in the community.

Oh no, hang on , that's Tony Soprano isn't it, not Armstrong? Easy mistake to make. A lot of others are making it too.

Kléber

RichN95 wrote:

But Armstrong will make sure that his family are well looked after and there will always be a job for him when he gets out. But if he talks they will be pariahs in the community.

We'll see. The Mike Anderson case, when Armstrong was taken to court by his flunky, ended with a private settlement.

deejay

RichN95 wrote:

But Armstrong will make sure that his family are well looked after and there will always be a job for him when he gets out.

Not in Politics then but yes your right.

RichN95.

Kléber wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

But Armstrong will make sure that his family are well looked after and there will always be a job for him when he gets out. But if he talks they will be pariahs in the community.

We'll see. The Mike Anderson case, when Armstrong was taken to court by his flunky, ended with a private settlement.

Private civil action and federal investigation. Big difference. Just ask OJ Simpson.

Kléber

Oh yes. It all suggests that if the US authorities want people to question, they have a long list of people to call.

deejay

DaveyL wrote:

Seriously, the guy's about to get nailed by the Feds and this is the best you can do?

Well and that's from the horses mouth.
He actually believes he is going down. Huraaah