Nicholas Roche - cheap shot

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  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Long article written by Roche about yesterday's stage

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-s ... 59211.html
    Contador is the Greatest
  • disquieting_museeuws
    disquieting_museeuws Posts: 601
    The OP actually raises a somewhat obscure (and therefore interesting) point on race politics and etiquette, IMO.

    There was no truce, just a 'piano' day, these have always been part of any tour. There's always something interesting happening, you just have to look for it (or look for another sport) :wink:
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    Perhaps ASO are the new co-sponsor of Saxe-Bank? Hence them feeling they hold the decision as when to race and when not to? If, indeed, this was the case.

    Personally, I'm still angry from St 2's debacle and Schleck A's get-out-of-jail-free card. Makes me wonder whether the peleton would wait for Bertie if he crashes?!

    I didn't see anything wrong with Roche's move - if it went agains the grain/upset the other teams, they should've chased it down. Simple as...
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    No-one seemed too bothered by it did they?
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Looks like the OP is in a minority of one on this issue. Fair play, it takes some doing to find a topic where everyone other than yourself is in agreement on this site :lol:
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    Still in a minority of one - I think those involved in the epic battle for 16th place should have pulled their bloody fingers out and gone with him. Wiggins - I'm looking at you - if your new aim is to finish top 10, then you're going to need these minutes here and there....
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/
  • oscarbudgie
    oscarbudgie Posts: 850
    Yeah why didn't Wiggins chase him down? Is it that Wiggins is the Wayne Rooney of the pro peloton?
    Cannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 3000
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    oscarbudgie wrote:
    Yeah why didn't Wiggins chase him down? Is it that Wiggins is the Wayne Rooney of the pro peloton?

    What, mega for his team, just not for his country?

    I'd have thought Wiggins was the opposite.
    _
  • TheHelpfulDevil
    TheHelpfulDevil Posts: 129
    I say well done to the lad.

    Yes, the riders had a easy day in the pack but if it was a real truce the sprinters would have not gone at it.

    As hard as these riders are they do like to throw the toys out of the prame.
  • ultimobici
    ultimobici Posts: 44
    andyp wrote:
    To suggest Stephen Roche was some paragon of virtue when it came to the unwritten rules of racing is hysterical. Just ask Jean Francois Bernard.
    Remind us. What terrible thing did Roche do to Jeff Bernard? Or do you mean Roberto Visentini in the 87 Giro?
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    ultimobici wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    To suggest Stephen Roche was some paragon of virtue when it came to the unwritten rules of racing is hysterical. Just ask Jean Francois Bernard.
    Remind us. What terrible thing did Roche do to Jeff Bernard? Or do you mean Roberto Visentini in the 87 Giro?

    When JF Bernard flatted, Delgado and Roche worked him over big time and put the hammer down at the foot of a climb. JFB went lost the yellow that day and never got it back.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • ynyswen24
    ynyswen24 Posts: 703
    carbotanium wrote:
    [
    quote="Tim Farr"]
    Roche's actions are surprising given that Stephen Roche is a stickler for following protocol in pro racing and having 'respect' for the race, fellow riders, the public etc etc

    SR was never a stickler for respect ..............some examples : doing over team-mate Vinsentini in the 87 Giro , missing the start of the Tdf team timetrial when he was at Tonton Tapis , turning the Tdf presentation in Dublin into an appreciation festival of all things Roche much to the dismay of other Irish stars present like Kelly and Earley , the accrimonious divorce from his wife Lydia .He apparently caused contract problems with almost every team he had dealings with .To cap it all there are the links with Conconi in Italy at the end of his career .

    Saint Stephen he ain't

    Yep, Kelly and Roche seem to lack 'rapport' on Eurosport..
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    ynyswen24 wrote:
    Yep, Kelly and Roche seem to lack 'rapport' on Eurosport..

    With this in mind, here's a question for any Irish posters - amongst the general Irish public (not cycling fans), who is seen as the greater cyclist?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • emadden
    emadden Posts: 2,431
    RichN95 wrote:
    ynyswen24 wrote:
    Yep, Kelly and Roche seem to lack 'rapport' on Eurosport..

    With this in mind, here's a question for any Irish posters - amongst the general Irish public (not cycling fans), who is seen as the greater cyclist?


    Kelly .... but then again, Im from Cork. Im sure all the Dubliners will be Stephen-fanboys
    **************************************************
    www.dotcycling.com
    ***************************************************
  • ultimobici
    ultimobici Posts: 44
    Timoid. wrote:
    ultimobici wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    To suggest Stephen Roche was some paragon of virtue when it came to the unwritten rules of racing is hysterical. Just ask Jean Francois Bernard.
    Remind us. What terrible thing did Roche do to Jeff Bernard? Or do you mean Roberto Visentini in the 87 Giro?

    When JF Bernard flatted, Delgado and Roche worked him over big time and put the hammer down at the foot of a climb. JFB went lost the yellow that day and never got it back.
    You might want to check the facts first.

    The Giro in the 80's was considered to be an Italian's to win. A foreigner winning was unthinkable - ask Fignon about timetrials & helicopters combined with mysteriously cancelled mountain stages. But if you read the reports from the time it's clear that Visentini wasn't as pure as the driven snow either.
    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... art-1.html
    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... art-2.html
    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... art-4.html

    The Bernard incident is interesting
    The following day, the fortunes of the Maillot Jaune went badly. Roche relentlessly attacked on the first climb of the stage, the category 1 Col du Tourniol. Near the top of the climb Bernard suffers an untimely puncture. Quickly a teammate gave up his wheel and the race leader started his chase back to the lead pack. An inspired Roche continued to set a hard pace and started to drop riders from the lead group. He and Delgado broke away from the remaining group over the summit of the final climb, the category 1 Cote de Chalimont and rode into Villard de Lans together. The time gain was over 4 minutes on the Maillot Jaune. Delgado sprinted passed the Irishman for the stage win, but Roche took the race lead and donned the Maillot Jaune.
    http://www.cyclingrevealed.com/Apr06/top25-5.htm

    It's one thing to attack someone because they puncture or crash, but quite another to not ease off because they have flatted. No one waited for Armstrong to catch up in the Alps, did they? To attack someone who is down is frowned on. To persist with an attack in spite of your rival's misfortune is fine. That's racing.
  • Abdoujaparov
    Abdoujaparov Posts: 642
    Tim Farr wrote:
    Today Nicholas Roche, and a Cofidis rider, launched attacks towards the end of the stage to Gap; and they were successful with GC contender Roche gaining 1' 21" on rival GC contenders. A successful move you would think. However this was not a normal racing day; it was a day on which the peloton had collectively decided to call a racing truce. Consequently noone raced Roche and he gained an uncontested 1' 21". In boxing parlance - it was a cheap shot.

    Although no rules were broken I would think that his actions would not have best pleased his rivals and he could well have stirred up opposition in future stages and races. I remember reading that Tom Simpson broke some umwritten rule that he was aware of - subsequently in Paris - Nice rivals took an opportunity to ruin his day the moral being , 'what goes around comes around'.

    Roche's actions are surprising given that Stephen Roche is a stickler for following protocol in pro racing and having 'respect' for the race, fellow riders, the public etc etc

    Tim, your name is suspiciously similar to a certain 'sprinter of team Garmin Transitions'. Are you just miffed that Roche gained time on your team mate Hesjedal? :wink:
  • paulcuthbert
    paulcuthbert Posts: 1,016
    ultimobici wrote:
    To attack someone who is down is frowned on. To persist with an attack in spite of your rival's misfortune is fine. That's racing.

    How is crashing not "misfortune"

    :?:
    The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg
  • blackrockracer
    blackrockracer Posts: 86
    RichN95 wrote:
    ynyswen24 wrote:
    Yep, Kelly and Roche seem to lack 'rapport' on Eurosport..

    With this in mind, here's a question for any Irish posters - amongst the general Irish public (not cycling fans), who is seen as the greater cyclist?


    Always King Kelly, the old fella's in the bars would always ask about Sean.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    blackrockracer wrote:


    Always King Kelly, the old fella's in the bars would always ask about Sean.

    Is this the case with your standard Irishman tough? For example, in Britain, Chris Hoy is better known and praised by the general public than Mark Cavendish - but most cycling fans think Cav's achievements are superior.

    I suspect it may be the same way with Kelly/Roche. Cycling fans will see Kelly has the better palmares, but Roche has the headline TdF win.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • luckao
    luckao Posts: 632
    "Hey, don't do this, [well respected rider] and [well respected rider] decided for everybody that they'd take it easy.. you're all subject to their will"

    Nah, bollocks. Good on him.
  • capilinconnemara
    capilinconnemara Posts: 117
    Def be King Sean. Stephen is remembered for 87 Sean is remembered for a decade.Also the fact that he was a farmers son from Carrick would mean he was always regarded as on of their own by Country folk
    At the time the morning sports news was about Eamon Coughlan winning indoor miles in America, Sean kelly winning road races in Europe and Eddie Macken and Boomerang winning at Showjumping.
    If these 3 men were to walk down O'Connell Street any child of the time would now recognise them alot quicker than Stephen Roche.
    Go neiri on bothar leat.
  • Deegs
    Deegs Posts: 74
    Abdou that is a funny post.

    Mr Farr with all due respect I'm not sure where you get the idea that they had "called a truce" whatever that means- this is a race not a war after all- did they announce it or what? I certainly missed it. Not sure how you came to this conclusion.

    As for Kelly- totally out of Roche's league. The history of achievements speaks for itself.

    As for Visentini- Carrera got what was coming to it that year as did all Italian cycling- I seem to remember Millar was 2nd, Vanderaerden won the points jersey, Millar the mountains and Panasonic the team prize and that Argentin (who I have great respect for) admitted that Italian cycling needed to pull its socks up.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    ultimobici wrote:
    You might want to check the facts first.


    Eh? I didn't talk about the Giro. Bernard was worked over. End of. I'm a huge Roche fan, but the man himself admitted that after Bernard had his trouble, he put the hammer down.

    I'm not judging him and what he did was totalliy acceptable. Nowadays it might not be.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    ultimobici wrote:
    You might want to check the facts first.


    The Bernard incident is interesting
    The following day, the fortunes of the Maillot Jaune went badly. Roche relentlessly attacked on the first climb of the stage, the category 1 Col du Tourniol. Near the top of the climb Bernard suffers an untimely puncture. Quickly a teammate gave up his wheel and the race leader started his chase back to the lead pack. An inspired Roche continued to set a hard pace and started to drop riders from the lead group. He and Delgado broke away from the remaining group over the summit of the final climb, the category 1 Cote de Chalimont and rode into Villard de Lans together. The time gain was over 4 minutes on the Maillot Jaune. Delgado sprinted passed the Irishman for the stage win, but Roche took the race lead and donned the Maillot Jaune.
    http://www.cyclingrevealed.com/Apr06/top25-5.htm

    It's ironic that the source you use to verify the 'facts' contains an factual inaccuracy in the very first sentence! :lol::wink:
  • ultimobici
    ultimobici Posts: 44
    andyp wrote:
    It's ironic that the source you use to verify the 'facts' contains an factual inaccuracy in the very first sentence! :lol::wink:
    Enlighten me. Where is the error in my source?
  • ultimobici
    ultimobici Posts: 44
    paulcuthbert wrote:
    ultimobici wrote:
    To attack someone who is down is frowned on. To persist with an attack in spite of your rival's misfortune is fine. That's racing.

    How is crashing not "misfortune"

    :?:
    That's not my point. It's that there is no "unwritten rule" that one stops riding tempo when a rival punctures. The "unwritten rule" is/was that one didn't attack because a rival had crashed or punctured.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    ultimobici wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    It's ironic that the source you use to verify the 'facts' contains an factual inaccuracy in the very first sentence! :lol::wink:
    Enlighten me. Where is the error in my source?

    The link states that Lemond's shooting accident was in January, but it was in April (thus giving Hinault the opportunity to moan about Lemond's professionalism).

    I'm not picking an argument by the way, it just stood out as a glaring error.
  • ultimobici
    ultimobici Posts: 44
    andyp wrote:
    ultimobici wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    It's ironic that the source you use to verify the 'facts' contains an factual inaccuracy in the very first sentence! :lol::wink:
    Enlighten me. Where is the error in my source?

    The link states that Lemond's shooting accident was in January, but it was in April (thus giving Hinault the opportunity to moan about Lemond's professionalism).

    I'm not picking an argument by the way, it just stood out as a glaring error.
    Whoops! LOL
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    ultimobici wrote:
    The Bernard incident is interesting
    The following day, the fortunes of the Maillot Jaune went badly. Roche relentlessly attacked on the first climb of the stage, the category 1 Col du Tourniol. Near the top of the climb Bernard suffers an untimely puncture. Quickly a teammate gave up his wheel and the race leader started his chase back to the lead pack. An inspired Roche continued to set a hard pace and started to drop riders from the lead group. He and Delgado broke away from the remaining group over the summit of the final climb, the category 1 Cote de Chalimont and rode into Villard de Lans together. The time gain was over 4 minutes on the Maillot Jaune. Delgado sprinted passed the Irishman for the stage win, but Roche took the race lead and donned the Maillot Jaune.

    Also, this is meat on the bones of what Timoid said, he just said a bit more succinctly. Just saying, like

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