who issdigusted with the BIKERADAR Sportive yesterday????

SBezza

bendertherobot wrote:

SBezza wrote:

Just like I do to race :roll:

Where in the information does it state that it's a race?

The point I was making is that I also pay to enter a race, not that a sportive is a race, which it most defiantly isn't. Fact is, I have to cater for myself in a race, yet do a 100 mile road ride and you seem to expect the world.

I'm not saying there wasn't issues, but for goodness sake, if you are going on that length of ride, make sure you can look after yourself first and foremost. I do regular 100 mile training rides with no help, I carry enough stuff on me foodwise, and if needs be stop at a shop or garage for a top up of water.

I know the area of the sportive very well, as I live and train in that area, there are plenty of shops and garages that stock all kinds of drink, there is no way anyone should have suffered due to lack of feedstations, just stop and refuel.

Perhaps there should have been more feedstations, or at least water stations, but it the expectations and the inability to cater for yourselves in the absence of this that amazes me.

bendertherobot

SBezza wrote:

The point I was making is that I also pay to enter a race, not that a sportive is a race, which it most defiantly isn't. Fact is, I have to cater for myself in a race, yet do a 100 mile road ride and you seem to expect the world.

I'm not saying there wasn't issues, but for goodness sake, if you are going on that length of ride, make sure you can look after yourself first and foremost. I do regular 100 mile training rides with no help, I carry enough stuff on me foodwise, and if needs be stop at a shop or garage for a top up of water.

I know the area of the sportive very well, as I live and train in that area, there are plenty of shops and garages that stock all kinds of drink, there is no way anyone should have suffered due to lack of feedstations, just stop and refuel.

Perhaps there should have been more feedstations, or at least water stations, but it the expectations and the inability to cater for yourselves in the absence of this that amazes me.

So, to clarify, WHAT am I getting for my £35 then? Have a look at the Devil ride thread incidentally. No WATER from 85k to the finish then none at the finish. It's unacceptable. You pay to enter a race, that's always been the case for races. And £15 is too much for that. For £25 plus you expect the organisers to KEEP THEIR WORD. It's not rocket science. They tell you "X feedastations." They need to keep with it. Or get slagged off. Simple.

You know those regular 100 milers you do? How much do they cost you to enter again?

SBezza

Well it sounds as though £20 of your £35 was an entry fee for the BikeRadar Live event, and only £15 was the sportive fee. £15 for a sportive is cheap, perhaps too cheap compared to what was being sold.

I am not saying you shouldn't expect what you are sold, but to blindly rely on that info, and not have a backup plan is a bit silly.

When I did sportives, I always made sure I had enough food to get me to the finish. If the food at the feedstation was good enough I had this instead, but I always had food on me as a backup. Feedstations run out of food, especially if you are towards the back and riders before hand are too greedy and take more than has been allocated for each riders (because they assume I have paid X pounds for this, so I will eat X pounds worth).

I would have taken my own energy drink if I had ridden as mentioned before ZipVit stuff is rank.

SBezza

bendertherobot wrote:

You know those regular 100 milers you do? How much do they cost you to enter again?

Nothing, thats the joy of them. Why pay good money to ride on roads that are free to use?

issacforce

i agree with above, and also once people have found out which courses they like, a lot of events will suffer lack of entries, as people jst turn up and go and ride their favorite courses, and also pick ther own date and look for gud weather, so oganisers beware you have been warned!!!! start too look after people or u will lose them and your profit

bendertherobot

SBezza wrote:

Well it sounds as though £20 of your £35 was an entry fee for the BikeRadar Live event, and only £15 was the sportive fee. £15 for a sportive is cheap, perhaps too cheap compared to what was being sold.

I am not saying you shouldn't expect what you are sold, but to blindly rely on that info, and not have a backup plan is a bit silly.

When I did sportives, I always made sure I had enough food to get me to the finish. If the food at the feedstation was good enough I had this instead, but I always had food on me as a backup. Feedstations run out of food, especially if you are towards the back and riders before hand are too greedy and take more than has been allocated for each riders (because they assume I have paid X pounds for this, so I will eat X pounds worth).

I would have taken my own energy drink if I had ridden as mentioned before ZipVit stuff is rank.

I wasn't there. And I do exactly as you advise. But when you pay for an event there is an expectation that you will be catered for. As I understand it the £35 was for the Sportive and NOT the entire event. By your measures there are a large percentage of riders at every event who will HAVE to rely on their back up plan despite having paid good money to enter.

Witness the Dragon fiasco this year. Out of HIgh 5 immediately because of the order cock up. Because no-one presumably opened the boxes until the morning of the sportive. Shocking. Witness the Devil on Sunday. No WATER, what if you can't find a water provider to fill up your powedered back up plan.

This type of complaint is becoming more and more common. For me, I think I've done my last sportive now. I may pirate them but I'll just do the charity rides now. Oddly, despite money going to charity, those things are always well provisioned.

bendertherobot

SBezza wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

You know those regular 100 milers you do? How much do they cost you to enter again?

Nothing, thats the joy of them. Why pay good money to ride on roads that are free to use?

Why indeed. As has been alluded to, unless organisers sort this out they'll have more pirates than riders. And that will be tough on them. And rightly so.

Percy Vera

SBezza wrote:

The point I was making is that I also pay to enter a race....

I think you are missing the point.
Does a race organiser claim to have 3 fully stocked feed stations for you during the race?

Pokerface

amaferanga wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

Why people still insist on paying £35 or more to go on a training ride and be given a banana and a water refill every 50 miles is beyond me. You can do the same ride for free and stop off along the way to refill your bottle and buy some extra food if you need it.


I can understand paying for a sportive on CLOSED roads, but not paying for one on the open roads.

What about £15 to ride round and round a 5 mile loop on open roads with no food or drink, a bit like a race? Are sportives poor value compared to BC races?

Well - clearly I am paying for the marshalling and road signs

A race is different. You are competing - it's not just a glorified training ride. You can't race 'on your own'. And most races I do cost less than that - but I see the point you're trying to make.

If Sportives only cost £15, then they would be better value. But £35 is too much.

SBezza

Percy Vera wrote:

SBezza wrote:

The point I was making is that I also pay to enter a race....

I think you are missing the point.
Does a race organiser claim to have 3 fully stocked feed stations for you during the race?

I am mainly trying to say going for a 100 mile ride with the bare minimum expecting plenty of food at the feedstations is poor planning IMO. Make sure you have enough to get yourself to the finish at least. If you don't use it then that is good, but the OP said he really suffered through lack of fluid, FFS if that is a problem, and it would have been on Sat/Sun, then stop at a shop, look after yourself first and foremost, don't rely on wording on a piece of paper.

It isn't good that the organisor hasn't done as he promised, but you need to be able to look after yourself, what do these same riders do when out training.

bikergirl17

the really ironic thing is that the best organized -- and stocked -- rides i have done are the charity rides, where you would expect them to scrimp to have more for the charity.

action medical research's kent castle 100 had three food stations overflowing with cakes (homemade!), fruit and drinks and there was a HUGE lunch stop, again with copious amounts of food. and the route was well signed, marshall-ed and a bit of a challenge for early may. plus you get a medal at the end.

SBezza

Charity events probably get most of the stuff donated free of charge, so very little outlay I would expect.

I organise our club sportive, and I know what is involved in running these events, we don't make any profit, all of the profits from our events go to charity. We get a certain amount of food donated. No doubt the AMR ones virtually all is donated.

Even the AMR actually cost £25 to enter as that is the minimum sponsorship they want from you. I must admit the Castle 100 ride is a fantastic ride, lovely route and as you say plenty of food. I still didn't eat that much though, and that is where I first tried ZipVit, ergh never again.

bendertherobot

SBezza wrote:

Charity events probably get most of the stuff donated free of charge, so very little outlay I would expect.

Most of the big sportives get theirs at wholesale. Yet they still can't deliver.

John Stevenson

what brakes wrote:

John Stevenson wrote:

Our sincere apologies to anyone who is unhappy with the ride on Saturday. We are aware that we had some major teething problems with a new area and new systems and we will make sure we nail these things next year.

Please feel free to feed back direct to me at john.stevenson@futurenet.com

Hi steve i would email you direct but you can see what i have written and how disgusted i feel so what would i achieve?

We can discuss the situation without the playing to the gallery that makes discussion of these problems unnecessarily hard in forums, and I can bring in via email our event director and his team who are currently still on site.

I fully understand that people are upset and why. Drop me an email and I'll work to sort you out.

bikergirl17

SBezza wrote:

Charity events probably get most of the stuff donated free of charge, so very little outlay I would expect.

but isn't that a good thing, as that means more money for a worthy charity.

and yes, it cost £25 at a minimum but that is the same price or cheaper than the average sportive -- and i thought it was as good organization-wise as the dartmoor classic.

**
not looking to debate this. my point is that seeing increasingly number of threads about people disappointed with sportives, and there are tons of (what i consider) fun, often less expensive options like the *real* charity rides and even some audaxes (those AAA ones are NOT easy).

Percy Vera

John Stevenson wrote:

.....and I can bring in via email our event director and his team who are currently still on site.

Don't tell me he's still there counting the money!

Ker-Ching!

John Stevenson

As for the price, the sportive at BikeRadar Live is part of the festival. If you feel that the other things on offer (a big expo, bike demoing, bands including Paul Heaton, trails displays, road races, mountain bike races etc etc) are not of interest, then, yes I can see that our sportive looks expensive - it's designed as part of something bigger and not as a thing in itself (which would be much much easier to organise, but which wouldn't be the festival of cycling we're trying to build).

Percy Vera

John Stevenson wrote:

As for the price, the sportive at BikeRadar Live is part of the festival. If you feel that the other things on offer (a big expo, bike demoing, bands including Paul Heaton, trails displays, road races, mountain bike races etc etc) are not of interest, then, yes I can see that our sportive looks expensive - it's designed as part of something bigger and not as a thing in itself (which would be much much easier to organise, but which wouldn't be the festival of cycling we're trying to build).

Ahhh... if the entrance to the festival is included then that's not as bad, fair enough.
So if the feed stations existed it might not have been a bad deal.

John Stevenson

Percy Vera wrote:

John Stevenson wrote:

.....and I can bring in via email our event director and his team who are currently still on site.

Don't tell me he's still there counting the money!

Ker-Ching!

Actually I think he's there figuring out where all the money went!

johnhawkhurst

This was my first sportive, I'd guessed it was going to be rather commercialised but I didn't know what to expect support wise, so took four bottles of drink and half a dozon or so gels, stopping once near Cranbrook and once at Brenchly, the Brenchly stop was really welcome but I suppose it should have offered more for our cash and the sponsors input. The greatest bit of support was near the bottom of the big hill within the last ten miles of the course. I was handed a bottle of water, which really kept things moving for me, whilst several people walked their bikes part way up that tremendous hill. Support at the end of the sportive was rather flaky, I dont even know now, wether my timing chip actually worked. Recovery drink and chilled bars would have been good. Bit of an anti-climax really. I thought it was expensive but the routing was good, and it was good to see the motorcycle support though much of the route

AndyRubio

FWIW

Sportives are generally not 'value for money' in the sense that you can always ride open roads for free and buy whatever food you want for far less than the entry fee. I justify it by the fact that if I have a mechanical then someone will come to sort me out. (usually)

Otherwise I justify it by the fact that it's for charity (usually), even if like the Etape du Dales, it's maybe not the most deserving.

I always assume that promises of food along the way are not going to be met, so that that anythig that's provided is a bonus. I remember the 2007 EdD having no food left at Tan Hill, and the 2008 Tour of Wessex serving up tuna mayo sandwiches which had been left out in the sun for what smelled like hours.

Food at the few European sportives has been unspeakably fine.

My point being: can't remember, it's late and I should have been in bed an hour ago.

softlad

I seem to remember posting something here earlier about Future being somewhat over-stretched, as a way of explaining their 'patchy' performance - but I'm guessing Mr Stevenson probably censored it..?

Wonder if this comment will go the same way...?? No matter - if it does, I'll just post it again..

ugo.santalucia

Lack of food and liquids is becoming the norm in many UK sportives. It's bizarre, because organisers know months in advance how many riders will be there on the day. On the continent they seem to be able to cater for everybody, although a good proportion of the entrants sign on the line.

The only explanation is that they try to do it on a shoestring to maximise profits. Given the entry fees are higher than anywhere else for similar size events, they are often a waste of money/time.
I have pretty much given up on UK sportives. I have to admit the ones in the north are generally better than those in the south.

A group of 4 can probably drive to Belgium from SE England and enter a sportive there for similar money (but a rather different experience).

JamesB

The only explanation is that they try to do it on a shoestring to maximise profits. Given the entry fees are higher than anywhere else for similar size events, they are often a waste of money/time.
I have pretty much given up on UK sportives. I have to admit the ones in the north are generally better than those in the south.

Tend to agree , my experiences of north events has shown them to be better stocked and value than southern ones (with a couple of notable exceptions )

John Stevenson

softlad wrote:

I seem to remember posting something here earlier about Future being somewhat over-stretched, as a way of explaining their 'patchy' performance - but I'm guessing Mr Stevenson probably censored it..?

Wonder if this comment will go the same way...?? No matter - if it does, I'll just post it again..

The sportive was well-resourced, we simply got wrong the amount of food and drink riders needed. We'll get it right next year.

Thank you for keeping to the point this time.

JamesB

How can you do that `simply got it wrong`??? You know number entered, weather forecast, and how much a cyclist may eat. Do the maths, and add some on for contingency. Better overstocked than under
You can estimate how much a cyclist may eat / drink on a sportive (try 3l water per cyclist for event + 4-5 gel bars each + 3 bananas + 1 x round savoury snadwiches + biscuits, peanuts, 3 flapjack, cakes, swiss rolls ??) .

John Stevenson

JamesBwmb - I don't yet know how we got it wrong, it'll be the first thing I ask when we get everyone together for a post-event debrief.

Part of the problem is that everyone is different. Your food list would be way more than I need for a 100-miler. I'd be so busy eating all that lot that i'd never finish!

I suspect some people stocked up a bit enthusiastically, so there wasn't enough left for everyone else. We'll take that into account next year and as you rightly suggest, add on some contingency

bendertherobot

The minimum is to be able to fill 2 bottles at each station, 1 banana at each, 1 savoury thing and 1 sweet thing. Gels are a nice addition, bars a nice addition.

The one thing that must not happen is to run out of water OR the energy drink advertised as being available.

spongtastic

instead of having a free for all at the feed stations, why not just give everybody a fixed amount like 1 gel + 1 bar and one drink?

Then the people that seem to need gels, bars, sanwiches, bananas, cakes, nuts, roast dinner, ice cream, coffee and after dinner mint can get (not) stuffed, instead of taking everything for themselves.

I've only just started doing 75 and 100 mile charity rides on my slicked mtb, (so yes I probably shouldn't even be posting here) but this always happens. Last one I did some fat middle aged gimp on a very expensive bike just filled his jersey pockets with half the bars at one stop, but luckily the marshalls told him otherwise. He put them all back but not before lots of effing and jeffing.

John Stevenson

spongtastic - handing out gels and bars at the start is a great idea and one we'll look into for next year.

We'd ban fat middle aged gimps too, but then I wouldn't be able to ride and I quite fancy actually doing so next year!