Recovering quicker from harder rides?

freehub

I find this odd.

If I go on a ride where I am keeping to the pace of other people, especially on hills, why does this end up killing me? I find I can't do as long as distance, I'm also very knackered and take days and days to recovery.

Yet today, I have done 130 miles pushing hard (for me), averaging just under 20mph, and the aching in my legs is already dieing down, I feel I will be properly recovered by Tuesday, maybe even Monday, yet if I did a 70 mile ride keeping to the pace of slower rides, I'd end up not recovering and feeling sluggish on Tuesday.

Is there any reason behind this, I talked to other people that feel the same.


Thanks

anto164

Is it because you're not used to the distance? Could just be something simple as more riding is needed!

As for the recovery, get yourself a recovery drink, helps repair muscle/replenish muscles etc..

Take your pick.. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/c/cycle/7/Energ ... ery_Drink/

Murr X

freehub wrote:

I find this odd.

If I go on a ride where I am keeping to the pace of other people, especially on hills, why does this end up killing me? I find I can't do as long as distance, I'm also very knackered and take days and days to recovery.

Yet today, I have done 130 miles pushing hard (for me), averaging just under 20mph, and the aching in my legs is already dieing down, I feel I will be properly recovered by Tuesday, maybe even Monday, yet if I did a 70 mile ride keeping to the pace of slower rides, I'd end up not recovering and feeling sluggish on Tuesday.

Is there any reason behind this, I talked to other people that feel the same.


Thanks

Hi Freehub,

No idea why that would be, like most I have only ever experienced the opposite. Not meaning to be patronizing but could it be psychological?

130 miles at a hard pace is not by any means an ideal way to train to increase power where it matters the most - FTP.

That kind of mileage is much too far to allow hard training and with it the much needed gains in threshold power, it will also be to the detriment of your sprinting ability and will take you a long time to recover from thus hindering future training (and perhaps not be great for your health either).


Murr X

bigpikle

do you keep a different cadence on the group rides you're not used to, hence it feeling harder?

I sperceived muscle ache really a good measure of recovery - I dont know the answer but it might be a false assumption?

freehub

heh, I was spinning more on the ride yesterday. It'll take me about 2 days to recovery from this 130 mile ride. The last ride was like 70 miles, and I felt sluggish even after 2 days recovering.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/39915689


I keep similar cadence on group rides, I'm trying to increase my spinning as I've always rode at lower cadence and I find at a lower cadence my power output goes up and HR goes down.

How is the mileage too far to allow hard training? It felt like hard training to me when I was on the front. And my legs are knackered. I need to do these long rides to get to the hills as I want to do hill training on proper hills, and I'm also training to do good in the Ryedale rumble sportive (Yes I know it's only a sportive but I want a decent time), got a 180 mile challenge ride next week also I needed to put some long miles in.

I did this the other day - http://connect.garmin.com/activity/39676974

That was much harder than some of the 70 mile rides I've being on that I've felt crap after.

Garz

I dont get it.

If I did a 130 and averaged just under 20mph I'd be dead chuffed!

If you want to improve other areas (as your mileage/stamina seem fine) then do hill repeats of tough incline mixed up with sprint intervals on other days. :?

freehub

If I want to work on improving hills I'll cycle into the North York Moors or the Yorkshire Dales to Tan Hill.

If you look at my first post, I was not asking about how to improve, I know how to improve on hills and I'd say I'm pretty fast up the hills and am improving all the time.

Garz

There's plenty of recovery products to choose from will. As to how they suit you is down to you to try them.

At the end of the day rest is just as important than training and nutrition. We all have days where we perform better, maybe down to eating days before.

I done a 112 mile sportive in the lakes then a few weeks after done a 100k around the peaks and I felt much worse after the 100k ride. The only major difference was the extreme heat in these in comparison.

doyler78

Are you attacking very hard throughout the ride because you have it in the legs because of the lower effort elsewhere on the ride ie attacking those smaller climbs or just can't help but fly off the front and spint for that 30mph sign and then slow up or wait up for the group to come back to you. If you are then you are basically doing lots of physiologically very hard work and because of the exaggerated recovery during the ride you may not notice it until the next day when you find it just isn't in the legs.

neeb

Just a thought - are your group rides at a different time of day, e.g. early in the morning? Or maybe you don't eat / hydrate as well because you are distracted by the company?

How is your pace on the group rides, do you maintain a constant rate even although it is slower than your normal solo rate, or do you sprint up hills to show off / stretch your legs and then wait at the top? (I admit to doing this myself sometimes, but find it is beneficial - the ride combines short intense efforts with recovery).

(*edit* - I think the last point is similar to the one Doyler78 was making)

freehub

doyler78 wrote:

Are you attacking very hard throughout the ride because you have it in the legs because of the lower effort elsewhere on the ride ie attacking those smaller climbs or just can't help but fly off the front and spint for that 30mph sign and then slow up or wait up for the group to come back to you. If you are then you are basically doing lots of physiologically very hard work and because of the exaggerated recovery during the ride you may not notice it until the next day when you find it just isn't in the legs.

On the 70 odd miler ride, the one I came back worse on, I did the pace of other people most of the time, on one really long drag, and some short ones I did proper attack and leave everyone for a short time.

The ride I did yesterday, I was going full pelt, well as hard as I felt I could sustain for 130 miles, full pelt up the hills, and when I was on the front I was towing the group 23+ into a headwind, then at the end, well about 18 miles to do, I decided to add this extra 18 miles, had a caffeine gel, and then kept on going full there, and I felt better than I did on this 70 odd miler ride.

neeb wrote:

Just a thought - are your group rides at a different time of day, e.g. early in the morning? Or maybe you don't eat / hydrate as well because you are distracted by the company?

How is your pace on the group rides, do you maintain a constant rate even although it is slower than your normal solo rate, or do you sprint up hills to show off / stretch your legs and then wait at the top? (I admit to doing this myself sometimes, but find it is beneficial - the ride combines short intense efforts with recovery).

(*edit* - I think the last point is similar to the one Doyler78 was making)

I go as best as I can go up hills, in the group I ride with we sort of compete to see who got to the top.

I yoyo abit, go abit too hard up some drags when I am on the front, I did it yesterday although improved abit

amaferanga

Why do your rides start and finish at different places? Does that have anything to do with your obsession with average speed?

ut_och_cykla

I think its a matter of small margins. On your lone rides you're working hard but pretty much inside your own comfort zone all the time. On the shorter but harder ride you're working marginally harder and outside your comfort zone at leasst some of the - thus using more carbs and energy generally and requiring a lot longer recovery time.

I recall reading a table in Lance Armstrongs 7 week plan with suggested recovery times for different levels of exercise - even a relativley few minutes of so-called anaerobic work will up teh recovery time greatly and recovery drinks may help but wont shorten the time needed very much - rebuilding muscle etc takes time!!

surreyxc

I think there is something to be said for tempo. I find I can ride very hard when out on my todd, yet sometimes struggle on similar group rides. I reckon it is because I crank it out when I want, too go fast on the stuff that suits me when alone, yet on a group ride you do not have that control, stopping when you want to go, fast when you want a break, slow when you want to go for it. Everyone has a different rhythm, I know for me it can take a good half hour before a can really put the power down.

freehub

amaferanga wrote:

Why do your rides start and finish at different places? Does that have anything to do with your obsession with average speed?

From Cawood is warmdown, so I put it on a different file.

MikeWW

Will
Those sort of mileages at that speed is going to take its toll if you are not hydrating and eating properly. I'd also be concerned if you are taking more than a day to recover.Either its due to above or you have not built up a base fitness level to deal with it.
Its very strange to do shorter rides with other people at a slower pace and find it tougher than the longer solo rides at a quicker pace.
I thought you were doing some of the crit races?What you describe won't help at all with those especially at this point in the season

oldwelshman

very weird

Alex_Simmons/RST

freehub wrote:

I find this odd.

If I go on a ride where I am keeping to the pace of other people, especially on hills, why does this end up killing me? I find I can't do as long as distance, I'm also very knackered and take days and days to recovery.

Yet today, I have done 130 miles pushing hard (for me), averaging just under 20mph, and the aching in my legs is already dieing down, I feel I will be properly recovered by Tuesday, maybe even Monday, yet if I did a 70 mile ride keeping to the pace of slower rides, I'd end up not recovering and feeling sluggish on Tuesday.

Is there any reason behind this, I talked to other people that feel the same.


Thanks

Because in all probability that particular group ride was physiologically harder than your solo ride. That would be due to the much more variable pace and effort required.

Intensity and "physiological cost" are not linearly related but instead have a curvlinear relationship, meaning that as intensity of effort goes up, the "physiological cost" goes up significantly more.

A ride with many short hard efforts can be just as taxing as a longer steadier one, even though one's average power may be higher on the steady ride.