BBC Cycle Superhighway report

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  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Good spot. Oooh, interesting:
    Another positive for safety is the introduction of trixi mirrors on the tops of traffic lights where HGV drivers can see in the blind spot on the left hand side.
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  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    Those mirrors are an excellent idea
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  • gaz545
    gaz545 Posts: 493
    The trixi mirros are great if the lorrys don't stop in the ASL. which lets be honest. never happens.
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  • owenlars
    owenlars Posts: 719
    An interesting dilemma occurs to me. If a cyclist is dumb enough to go up the inside of a lorry at some lights and there is a trixi mirror and the lorry turns left and an accident happens is it the lorry's fault for not seeing the bike in the mirror or is it the cyclist's fault for putting themselves in harms way?

    These things may help but they sure as hell won't cure.

    The only certain solution I can think of is for bikes not to go up the inside of big vehicles at traffic lights.
  • diplomacy
    diplomacy Posts: 34
    i'm guessing that 1m12s is showing the problem at oval that is mentioned in the text? if that is the finished state it makes no sense at all...

    there's an argument that cycle lanes can be part of the problem with road safety, in that cyclists tend to follow them like train tracks, even up the inside of busy junctions in the left turning lane. that shot in that report shows the worst possible use of a cycle lane - spitting out right into the path of a barreling articulated lorry (MALCOLM LUST). surely this would be safer with no paint, forcing the cyclist to at least think about where they are?

    i'm sure there are people on here who use that section of the route, is it really as crazy as it looks? what kind of behaviour do you see from cyclists there?
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    A cyclist who goes up the left of vehicle indicating left is the one at fault in my opinion, if the vehicle isn't indicating then the driver is at fault.

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  • Cafewanda
    Cafewanda Posts: 2,788
    Once the lights change at the Oval I'm primary in the left or right lanes before they split into the left turn or straight ahead toward the Elephant.

    I regard that section as my 'coffee with a shot of espresso' as it certainly wakes me up :shock:

    Interestingly, I've noticed that most of the women cyclists head towards the cycle lane then meander (sometimes check + signal) across to the right. More men tend to use the lanes proper plus me.
  • glauciaregina9
    glauciaregina9 Posts: 259
    Good to see a sensible & practical approach to mitigating the situation with cyclists and turning lorries.

    Although it's a cyclists responsibility not to put themselves in a dangerous position in the first place, hopefully the mirrors, in conjunction with improving driver & cyclist awareness, will prevent further tragic accidents.

    I only hope cyclists don't think that because the trixi mirrors are there that it's now safer to be alongside a lorry...
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  • prj45
    prj45 Posts: 2,208
    glauciaregina9 wrote:
    I only hope cyclists don't think that because the trixi mirrors are there that it's now safer to be alongside a lorry...

    Ah, the good old law of unintended consequences.
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  • pastryboy
    pastryboy Posts: 1,385
    I've seen a few of those blue rectangles dotted around. Had no idea they were part of the superhighways, They seem to be in the middle of the roads.
  • deptfordmarmoset
    deptfordmarmoset Posts: 3,118
    prj45 wrote:
    glauciaregina9 wrote:
    I only hope cyclists don't think that because the trixi mirrors are there that it's now safer to be alongside a lorry...

    Ah, the good old law of unintended consequences.

    Yes, there are conflicting message being given to cyclists - road planners with their cycle lanes say ''go this way'' and road sense says ''only go this way if you know that it's absolutely safe to do so.''

    The Trixi mirror, though, is a pragmatic approach to the problem. People do go up the inside of lorries, lorries have enormous (and scandalous, in my view) blind spots, especially when turning, and cyclists do get killed. The Trixi mirror addresses the situation as it is. It gives the lorry driver a better view of what might be creeping up alongside (and removes the ''blind spot'' defence in case of careless driving.) And another aspect of the Trixi mirror is that it also gives the cyclist a better view of what is up ahead - is there an ASL and is it free of traffic? They should be able to give the cyclist a more thorough way of assessing what's hidden behind the front of the LGV.
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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,411
    pastryboy wrote:
    I've seen a few of those blue rectangles dotted around. Had no idea they were part of the superhighways, They seem to be in the middle of the roads.

    I think those rectangles are one of the best bits - a bit like someone shouting 'Look out for bikes!' every 20 seconds in the ear of every driver.
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  • Clarion
    Clarion Posts: 223
    Shortly after the Walworth Road RAB, the CS signs seem to be in the wrong lane!
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  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    Anyone know roughly the route for CS2?

    Ilford Aldgate A118-A11 Summer 2011

    I imagine it would be Ruckholt Road past the Olympic Park, Vicky Park then south to Aldgate?
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,411
    mybreakfastconsisted wrote:
    Anyone know roughly the route for CS2?

    Ilford Aldgate A118-A11 Summer 2011

    I imagine it would be Ruckholt Road past the Olympic Park, Vicky Park then south to Aldgate?

    You might be able to work it out from here

    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Cycling/indicative_route_map.pdf
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  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    Ta. Looks like the old A11, Leytonstone High Road then Stratford Highway. Not nice to cycle along, faster than Ruckholt I suppose.
  • diplomacy
    diplomacy Posts: 34
    Cafewanda wrote:
    Once the lights change at the Oval I'm primary in the left or right lanes before they split into the left turn or straight ahead toward the Elephant.

    I regard that section as my 'coffee with a shot of espresso' as it certainly wakes me up :shock:

    Interestingly, I've noticed that most of the women cyclists head towards the cycle lane then meander (sometimes check + signal) across to the right. More men tend to use the lanes proper plus me.
    i imagine that's pretty similar to the pre-blue situation too?

    so probably the net effect there will be to slightly raise the stress of people in the lane by cutting it off like that, and slightly raise the anger of motorists held up behind in-lane cyclists because there is such an obvious cycle lane at the side...

    to slip into daily mail mode for a second: this does not seem the best use of my road tax.
  • plowmar
    plowmar Posts: 1,032
    Sorry but no matter what aids are available to those nice lorry drivers and no matter wether you are in the right or not it is still you, the cyclist, that is going to be dead or seriously squashed not the lorry driver.

    DO NOT go up the inside of lorries, I remember adverts telling car drivers to beware of doing so.

    If one does follow you to a junction my preservation angel tells me to let them go ahead a few seconds is more than worth a life time.

    To paraphrase 'Your life is in your hands'
  • Cafewanda
    Cafewanda Posts: 2,788
    diplomacy wrote:
    Cafewanda wrote:
    Once the lights change at the Oval I'm primary in the left or right lanes before they split into the left turn or straight ahead toward the Elephant.

    I regard that section as my 'coffee with a shot of espresso' as it certainly wakes me up :shock:

    Interestingly, I've noticed that most of the women cyclists head towards the cycle lane then meander (sometimes check + signal) across to the right. More men tend to use the lanes proper plus me.
    i imagine that's pretty similar to the pre-blue situation too?

    so probably the net effect there will be to slightly raise the stress of people in the lane by cutting it off like that, and slightly raise the anger of motorists held up behind in-lane cyclists because there is such an obvious cycle lane at the side...

    to slip into daily mail mode for a second: this does not seem the best use of my road tax.

    Cars behind me are invariably delayed for a few seconds as they can manoeuvre either side of me unless they are blocked in. In any event, it's not a motorway so they are supposed to drive slowly and admire my shapely aris :)
  • diplomacy
    diplomacy Posts: 34
    Cafewanda wrote:
    Cars behind me are invariably delayed for a few seconds as they can manoeuvre either side of me unless they are blocked in. In any event, it's not a motorway so they are supposed to drive slowly and admire my shapely aris :)
    apologies, i should have put air quotes around 'held up'. 'air quotes' that is. nothing ruins a motorist's day like being stuck behind a cyclist doing 25 in a 20 zone.
    plowmar wrote:
    DO NOT go up the inside of lorries, I remember adverts telling car drivers to beware of doing so.
    well you can say that, and i can say that, and we can tell it to all the cyclists we see doing it, but the impact is insignificant given the numbers involved. and with the decimation of the COI we are not likely to see any adverts about it... what cyclists see is a cycle lane which takes them up the inside of lorries, and a mayor who... i remember hearing an interview with him a while ago... here we go: a mayor whose safety advice for cyclists is the following:

    "Get to the front," he said. "Too many cyclists in London do not get to the front, they lurk at the back and are under the lee of lorries and buses and they are at much greater risk than if they go and assert their prerogatives and get to the front."
  • Cafewanda
    Cafewanda Posts: 2,788
    Diplomacy, I don't deliberately go to the front to slow cars down, but neither will I worry about holding them up for a few seconds. The Oval 'track' is where I hold primary in whichever lane I am in, whilst going as fast as I safely can with lots of shoulder checks either side. Most drivers are ok with it. Only a few aren't. As long as no-one flattens me I'll continue.

    I regard it as a workout for my legs/lungs which enhances my running :wink:
  • Origamist
    Origamist Posts: 807
    Cafewanda wrote:
    Diplomacy, I don't deliberately go to the front to slow cars down, but neither will I worry about holding them up for a few seconds. The Oval 'track' is where I hold primary in whichever lane I am in, whilst going as fast as I safely can with lots of shoulder checks either side. Most drivers are ok with it. Only a few aren't. As long as no-one flattens me I'll continue.

    I regard it as a workout for my legs/lungs which enhances my running :wink:

    That's the best strategy for Oval. How are you finding Stockwell now it has a partially segregated facility northnound?

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  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Launched today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10680560

    Also, saw a piece on bbc london news last night which contained a comment from one of BoJo's advisers saying that the blue strips are where motorists can expect cyclists to be... did not like.
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  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    JonGinge wrote:
    Launched today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10680560

    Also, saw a piece on bbc london news last night which contained a comment from one of BoJo's advisers saying that the blue strips are where motorists can expect cyclists to be... did not like.

    His transport advisor freaks me out; I'm not sure if it's right to trust a man with shirt collars that large.....
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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,411
    JonGinge wrote:
    Launched today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10680560

    Also, saw a piece on bbc london news last night which contained a comment from one of BoJo's advisers saying that the blue strips are where motorists can expect cyclists to be... did not like.

    I think you mean Kulveer Ranger. You could take that comment either way: the good way would be "you should not be surprised to see cyclists on roads with a blue strips". The bad way would obviously be "cyclists should only be found on the blue strips".

    I noticed a big marquee thing on Clapham Common, which I presume was something to do with the launch. Didn't have time to stop obviously, as I was commuting to work. BBC London News were requesting comments from CSH users this morning, so I imagine there will be a feature on the evening news. I have to say that CS7 still seems a little unfinished. There are a lot of white lines missing from the edge of the blue strip in Tooting, and there seems to have been a bit of a mad dash to fill in all the gaps in time for the launch, using the loose/poorly bonded blue chippings, rather than the properly adhered stuff they started with.
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  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    It sounded like the bad way, even if he didn't really mean it to. Shame I can't find the BBC london news vid on iPlayer.
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  • el_presidente
    el_presidente Posts: 1,963
    Leaflets for CS3 and CS7 were being handed out at Bank tube this morning.

    the leaflets have a weird stylised map which is confusing, but some good advice about junctions, left turning HGVs etc. Might persuade a few waverers to take to the the streets I suppose.
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  • glauciaregina9
    glauciaregina9 Posts: 259
    JonGinge wrote:
    Launched today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10680560

    Also, saw a piece on bbc london news last night which contained a comment from one of BoJo's advisers saying that the blue strips are where motorists can expect cyclists to be... did not like.


    This is why I am not 100% sold on the whole idea of segregated cycle lanes, as it just exacerbates the 'them' and 'us' attitude between road users.
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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,411
    JonGinge wrote:
    It sounded like the bad way, even if he didn't really mean it to. Shame I can't find the BBC london news vid on iPlayer.

    I'm not sure how interested Mr Kulveer is in London transport, and how interested he is in becoming a rising star in the conservative party. The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but...
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  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    Speaking at the launch on Clapham Common in south-west London, Mr Johnson said: "It's part of a programme of things that are going to change the urban landscape, what it's like to live in and to move around in London.

    "In the run up to the Olympics it's part of our vision of a cleaner, greener, safer city, where you have a cycling revolution."

    He said the superhighways would also make the city more attractive for investment, adding:

    "London will acquire an ever greater reputation as the best big city on earth to live in."

    He joked:



    "We must tackle the scourge of obesity, or the 'Big Society' as it's sometimes known.

    "Much more importantly, if you cycle you arrive full of serotonin, endorphins, energy and all the rest of it for your next meeting."



    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... ighways.do

    And as Mr Johnson talked to journalists, one passing cyclist using the route shouted:

    "Fxxx off Boris."

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