8-10 months of 'base' building?

bigpikle

This might seem an odd question, but after completing my first century sportive next Sunday, my next significant goal is to ride the the Raid Pyrenean in early Sept 2011 - a full 14 months away!

While there will obviously be plenty of events and key rides between now and then, I want to plan my training to enable me to complete the 710km of the Pyrenees in 100 hours, ride strong over the 18 cols and enjoy the 11,000m of mountains.

Right now I have 2000 miles of general riding under my belt this year and have regularly been riding 50-70 mile routes with a couple of 80 milers under my belt. My first century will be this weekend and my average speeds have increased from around 14mph at the start of the year to around 17mph on these longer rides - depending on terrain obviously. My strength has also improved significant, going from spending 90% of my time on the small chainring to only needing it on the harder climbs.

In order to achieve this goal and based on my current abilities, I think I'll need to really focus on in order of importance:

1. endurance - 710kms in 100 hours, so back to back century rides on 3 days. I obviously need much more endurance than I have now...

2. strength - climb over 11,000m of mountains. BIG focus area for me if I want to enjoy the riding...

So, with all this time and recognising the principles of periodisation and progression and the fact that I cant just do the same training without getting stale, burnout etc, how should I structure the next 8-10 months for best effect? There's obviously a limit to the volume I can do in a week so once I reach that what should I do? I guess it becomes about intensity at that point, so can I plan a cycle that alternates between base & build phases until next spring?

In other words, if I can continue to focus on endurance for the rest of the summer/autumn, can I use the winter to just maintain it with a lower volume of endurance work but focus on building strength, and then next spring begin the cycle again to build endurance further and then move onto strength again?

Appreciate some suggestions from those experienced with planning training.

bigpikle

anyone?

est.1984

To build constantly over a prolonged period of time it has been shown that it is possible to work with a 3 weeks hard 1 week easy system (or similar) and constantly improve. However, with the target that you have in mind i'm not sure that this would be such a good idea, as you could find yourself burning out.

If it were me attempting this ride (hell no). I think I wouldn't really start targeting the event until beginning of May next year. I would just enjoy my riding until then and make sure I was completing consistent and regular mileage. Then over the course of June and July build the mileage up considerably, and due to the fact it is more or less impossible to mimic that kind of mileage in training be doing plenty of 3 hour hard rides mixed with days when you are doing back to back days of big mileage for example back to back centuries, to get your body used to that kind of stress. Then at the end taper right down to enter fresh.

Of course I could be talking total b******llocks!

bigpikle

appreciate that input - I had been contemplating some of that as well

I think back to back long rides will be part of it, and we have some ideas for 2/3 day trips to some hillier places as well as around here. Getting used to 6 hours in the saddle on consecutive days will be important I suspect.

One BIG question for me though, is just how long can you do 2-3 hour endurance rides for and expect to keep building fitness? I guess over time you ride faster for the same exertion/HR so you are getting more efficient and stronger, but surely at some point the law of diminishing returns sets in and you stagnate?

There is a ceiling on the number of hours riding that can be done in a week so I cant just keep adding 10% volume per week for 3 weeks and dropping back on the 4th. I guess thats where adding intensity comes in and reducing volume to keep the workload the same or slightly increasing for a time?

Please help me fill in the gaps so I can at least get some structure to my thinking here !

est.1984

It might be worth considering turning what you previously considered 'proper' periodisation on it's head. For longer distance stuff a lot has been said about reverse periodisation ie building your power in the early season, and doing your longer stuff afterwards. The theory being if you don't take the winter off, why bother doing loads of slow steady stuff. Jump straight to hard interval type training and use that to be able to do your long training faster.

It's worth considering. If you google 'reverse periodisation' there is loads of debate on it. It seems to be more useful to those targeting the longer distance races.

bigpikle

that sounds a worthwhile approach...there's no doubt my performance this year has been massively helped by the increase in strength I have made by deliberately working on pushing bigger gears.

I guess it also means longer rides in the next few months while the weather is better, then shorter and more intense strength building rides when its crap weather, so less cold wet road time

Then I have base endurance and strength to build on come spring...ummm.

est.1984

Just had a look at what you are up to, looks awesome...are you going with Marmot tours? Over 5 days you should be fine as long as you get the miles in...have fun!

bigpikle

It all started during a bike ride with Pete from Shutt VR who expressed a mad desire to do it.. We have a local tour specialist we're talking with to do all the supported buts for us but its not Marmot...

More info here if anyone is interested and wants to tag along? Looks like we have about 8-10 so far and more are welcome

http://www.shuttvr.com/forum/topic.php?id=18&view=all

bigpikle

so first goal achieved - 100 miles in 6'30 door to door so happy with that for a first time!

vorsprung

Hi
This year I have been training up for a 1000km / 13500m climbing ride in Wales, end of July
The basic plan was
1) commute all winter, approx 250km a week
2) do a bunch of events of increasing length 200,300,400,600km
3) (what I'm doing now) try and get good form for end of July. Altered my commute to be very hilly

There is some discussion of this on my blog

Also you may well find the information here useful
http://www.ultracycling.com/training/training.html

It's difficult to find resources on long distance cycling training.

mzm70

Hmmmm, that does look tempting !!!!

Team Banana Spokesman

nothing says you cant build base all yr round. I dont stop. I dont see the point in stopping.

bigpikle

Team Banana Spokesman wrote:

nothing says you cant build base all yr round. I dont stop. I dont see the point in stopping.

so do you keep increasing volume - length of long rides etc, or just keep doing the same length of rides? I just dont see how you can keep improving without increasing the length/number of those rides after a while?

ded

Bigpikle wrote:

I just dont see how you can keep improving without increasing the length/number of those rides after a while?

because training is about volume not time. I'm no expert, but I've read enough to know that you don't have to endlessly increase time training to improve endurance or speed. You still do the same hours, but you do them harder.... I'll leave it to one of the many (?!?!?) training gurus on here to expand further...

bigpikle

thats my point - you must at some point be forced to increase intensity as you'll reach a limit to the amount of work/volume you can do at an aerobic level.

I think I need to do more reading on this :P

ded

be forced to increase intensity as you'll reach a limit to the amount of work/volume you can do at an aerobic level

My point too You do have to increase intensity but that doesn't mean your endurance can't continue to improve. By raising the amount of work you can do before you reach your anaerobic threshold you effectively drag your endurance up too because you're going faster for the same effort (or using less effort to go atthe same speed). From what I've managed to glean from reading anyway...

Of course for that schedule you'll need an iron ar$e too...

mclarent

Out of interest, why don't you target a couple of intermediate events - training based on "cycles" is pretty standard theory, could target a late season event in the UK, early season ride like the Tour of Flanders or Hell of Ashdown? Or maybe do some time trialling or racing? Personally, I would probably lose all motivation trying to target something so far in the future, and I would struggle to design a training plan to that date which didn't involved a lot of chocolate between now and next summer! :shock:

bigpikle

^^ good point...

I have a couple in mind before then, as milestones for the journey, but they are just that, and will happily be sacrificed if needed. Going to be doing the 127 mile Magnificat next June after doing the pretty tough 81 miler this year, and we have a 170 mile 2 day Chilterns tour in Oct this year as a final event for this season. We also have a plan for some 2/3 day Welsh or Scotland trips next year but not for any specific event and probably the Tour of Wessex in 2011.

No danger of losing focus though, as I'm doing the Raid with a couple of my regular riding partners so its a constant source of conversation

mclarent

So that sounds fine then! I would build a plan targetting the intermediates you've set, using them as stepping stones (cycle peaks) towards your RAID target. I would also be sure to schedule time off the bike / "rest" weeks as well, to keep motivation and let my body recover, and I would probably do some cross training at that point (go sking!).

vorsprung

I was going to suggest that you fit in a 300 or 400km ride before the event

For my 1,000km event in late July I had finished all the "training" as such in May, 10 weeks before. I've just done a 400km in June and I'm due another one next weekend. These are just to keep my body in the mood. As someone else rightly pointed out you need an iron ar$e for this sort of endeavour. I have also been doing more high intensity, shorter rides with more ascent. Fortunately, living in Devon it is easy to double the vertical gain on the commute.

Next year is Paris-Brest-Paris which means that the main source of 300km+ events in the UK will be running everything slightly earlier, going on holiday in France in late July and then not doing very much after that. This doesn't fit in that well with your plan to ride in September

Mind you, if you feel up to it there will be lots and lots of events March through to June because of PBP mania

56mph

The Raid is something I've always wanted to try. Maybe next year.

My experience (principally gained from structuring my cycling year around doing the Etape each year for the last eight years and also recently using a coach) is that there are two things which are key to success in the mountains.

The first as you say is building the endurance base that allows your body to get used to burning fats alongside carbs so that you can refuel and keep going for 8, 9, 10 hours a day. What I have learnt is that building this base requires long periods of training at modest HR; not going out and caning it every time which is how I used to approach my early season training.

I wouldn't worry too much about starting in a structured way on this before the New Year, as there is a danger of over-training or peaking too early, but to just enjoy riding the bike for now. In the Spring I would then schedule regular mid-length and longer rides, building up as the days themselves get longer until you are easily comfortable with 200km at a good steady pace (as your longest single day's ride in the Raid is 180km or so).

The second key to success in the mountains is to work on upping not just your strength but your strength (or power) to weight ratio. So it's not only about increasing power but also about losing weight. If you can get your body-fat percentage down to single figures, which should follow over time if you are building endurance and not pigging out on the pies, then you will zoom up those climbs.

For an event like the Raid you don't need a lot (or indeed any) top-end power as you won't be racing and need to lay down bursts of power to get back on a wheel. But you will need to have the continuous steady power for all those metres of climbing. My personal experience is that you should add this power on top of the endurance base, as you will lose it if you try to do it too early in the season. There's nothing like training in the mountains, which is sadly impossible in this country as nowhere do we have 25km of continuous climbing, but still try to get out and ride the longest hills you can find, again and again.

Signing up for some multi-day sportives in the run-up (like Wessex or the London to Paris) is a great idea, so you get used to riding consecutive days.

Interestingly the French version of the Etape website ranks riders' likely performance on the day based on how many sportives they have done in preparation.

Good luck!

bigpikle

thanks 56mph...

That all makes sense, especially the bit about starting structured training next year. Until then I think you're right about just riding and enjoying it. I think some cross-training in winter is likely as well as I enjoy running and swimming in small doses does me good

Sadly I am already close to my 'fighting weight' having lost 40lbs already! I could maybe lose a few more lbs but realistically only maybe 3-5 max...I'm sure that will fall off with all the general riding anyway.

Rutlandblue

I x/ trained, m/biked, indoor bike, gym +swam for about 9 months.
Lost the weight through that and had a body fat of 12%. But i wasnt super fit by any means.
The biggest challenge is the mental one. i took my bike out to the alps on a skiing holiday and rode up to LaPlane a couple of times. Having no previous mountain experience that gave me a big boost 'knowing' i could ride such climbs.

The 1st day is a 'gentle' introduction before the fun starts! After that its hard of course but also 'do-able'. Dont let people pysche you out with tales of horror climbs.

Get the Michelin maps 85+86 to get to 'know' your route, another boost mentally.
I did it in 96hrs which was/is my greatest achievement on a bike. The Pyrenees are breathtaking, so enjoy it!