Faster = Safer?

mrc1

My GF has started cycling into work again after being hit by a car a couple of months ago. I have been riding in with her in the mornings as she is still a bit nervous post crash. My observation would be that at lower speeds it seems to be much more dicey in terms of traffic.

My normal rolling speed depending on the part of my commute varies from high teens to high 20s mph. I very rarely have any trouble with cars not seeing me or trying to pull some dodgy overtake etc.

Cycling with the GF the speed falls to something between 10-18mph and its like a kamikaze run! Cars constantly pass far to close to you, pull out of crossroads as if you arent there, cut you up and are generally more hostile.

Obviously some of this derives from the fact that I tend to be moving at or around the ambient speed of traffic and therefore dont get the stupid overtake efforts, but I dont understand why the effects are so marked!

Anyone else have any thoughts/experiences?

Harry B

Agreed. Better and safer if you are travelling at closer to the traffic's speeds

sarajoy

Yeah, I agree with that.

My commute can take it out of me as I try and keep in the flow of traffic, I feel much safer there. Slower cyclists will seem to stick to the edge of the road (where drivers do prefer them to be), so you then have to make an effort to regain the road again coming up to parked cars... within the flow of traffic you can just keep out and away from them.

I spent this week just gone in Kiel in Germany - oh the cyclists! Tons of them! Wide roads and wide pavements, sometimes cycle lanes on both pavement and road exist on the same stretch. It was fairly common to see faster cyclists sticking to the road and gentler slower folk on the paths (although even some of them weren't very slow - I was envious of the space they had).

Also on my commute there are some annoying roadworks - on a day when I feel fast and full of energy, it's not too bad to just carry on through them - but as cars can't pass you, being tired and going slowly through the single lane only gets them annoyed (or you end up with the dreaded squeeze-past). When more likely to go slow lately I've taken the ped/cyclist diversion along the pavement on the other side - the pootle is very pleasant and makes a welcome change to forcing myself up to traffic speed.

wizzlebanger

I think if you are keeping up with the general speed of traffic then you are more likely to be viewed from a motorists perspective as another vehicle on the road.... and thus given a little more respect / space.

However, once your speed drops or you're passing stationary or slow moving traffic I always feel that your more likely to fall foul of a stupid act or manoeuvre as motorists just don't expect you to be there.

Having said that, riding with confidence I feel is the number 1 thing to remember. And obviously obey the laws of the road yourself.

I always position myself on the road at junctions etc exactly as I would when I'm driving but you will always get the cretin who is not concentrating or just feels that being able to clip you with their mirror is ok.

Headhuunter

Definitely agree that faster is safer. I rarely get passed on my commute and am more easily able to take up primary without causing motorists to get impatient and blast their horns. I only ever really get passed on dual carriageway stretches where traffic has more space to get passed. Only thing is that at faster speeds you have less time to react to danger, I crashed badly last Nov when I was flying along at 20-25mph when suddenly some idiot in a car turned across my path. I had not time even to touch the brakes and went slamming into the side of him....

AndyManc

Obviously the fewer cars that are overtaking you, the lower the number of near misses.

I think it's also true to say that if you can maintain a decent speed then you are more likely to take primary position or at least a few metres away from the curb, the slower you are the more you hug the curb inviting cars to scrape past you.

Since the decent weather began I've been using my fast hybrid and I feel a lot happier , cars seem to give me more room because I'm doing a decent speed, perhaps they feel the need to give me a wider birth in case I make a mistake.

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bigmat

On the rare occasions I ride slowly (either injured, or mechanical issues usually) I really notice how much more vulnerable I feel on a bike.

itsbruce

Riding slowly is for when the traffic is stationary.

MrChuck

Absolutely. With a reasonable turn of speed it's much easier to position yourself and so safer.

nwallace

Agreed,

Descending at 40 when the cars can only legally do 30 is brilliant, keeps them behind me.

waddlie

sarajoy wrote:

...

Also on my commute there are some annoying roadworks - on a day when I feel fast and full of energy, it's not too bad to just carry on through them - but as cars can't pass you, being tired and going slowly through the single lane only gets them annoyed (or you end up with the dreaded squeeze-past). When more likely to go slow lately I've taken the ped/cyclist diversion along the pavement on the other side - the pootle is very pleasant and makes a welcome change to forcing myself up to traffic speed.

Are those the roadworks on the A38 just north of the sorting office? Hideous things, haven't yet found a route through that doesn't piss me off!!

Kieran_Burns

Ummm..... I cruise at between 16 and 18 on the country roads into work. I rarely get above 20mph, although I can get up to high 20's if needed.

Most of my commute is on NSL roads though so I could never get anywhere NEAR road speeds, and I feel perfectly safe.

sarajoy

Waddlie wrote:

sarajoy wrote:

...

Also on my commute there are some annoying roadworks - on a day when I feel fast and full of energy, it's not too bad to just carry on through them - but as cars can't pass you, being tired and going slowly through the single lane only gets them annoyed (or you end up with the dreaded squeeze-past). When more likely to go slow lately I've taken the ped/cyclist diversion along the pavement on the other side - the pootle is very pleasant and makes a welcome change to forcing myself up to traffic speed.

Are those the roadworks on the A38 just north of the sorting office? Hideous things, haven't yet found a route through that doesn't wee-wee me off!!

Them's the buggers yup.

As said though, part of me sort of likes the pavement pootle - it's just a shame there's so much stopping ans starting when crossing the roads that come off the dual carriageway..

No_Ta_Doctor

While I agree with the general conclusion that matching traffic speed is safer perhaps part of your perception of the danger of cycling more slowly is down to you riding with someone you care about, who is obviously a bit nervous, and who you're protective of. It tends to amplify e.g. the feeling of irritation or anger at inconsiderate motorists as well as the worry that something dangerous might happen. That's certainly what I find when I cycle with my kids, incidents that would merely irritate me cycling alone seriously piss me off when they involve my kids. I'll never forget the drunk football fan my ex hit with our trailer with kids in. I was right behind her at the time, and when the bloke looks up from the road he's now lying on there's an irate dad standing above him and raging. Never seen anyone look quite as terrified before. If you're particularly alert to the fact you want your girlfriend to regain confidence in cycling safely even the smaller incidents are going to feel far larger.

itsbruce

No tA Doctor wrote:

incidents that would merely irritate me cycling alone seriously wee-wee me off when they involve my kids.

I'm frequently struck dumb by the number of parents who don't seem to have that sense. In just the last week, I've seen several people jump red lights at busy junctions with small children in baby seats on the back.

Clarion

MatHammond wrote:

On the rare occasions I ride slowly (either injured, or mechanical issues usually) I really notice how much more vulnerable I feel on a bike.

I definitely find this. I go through several busy junctions, where I hate being slow. You can get caught in bad positions or heckled too easily.

That said, I have a maximum speed for the road, too. Given the way idiot drivers pul out without looking, I don't tend to go over 40kph unless its a really clear road with few side turnings.

I prefer to ride between about 28-30kph if there are no other factors.

robz400

Could it also be that your obvious fitness generates a little bit more respect from other road users if cycling at decent speed?

A cyclist crusing along at 20+ is likely to be a fit person and even slighly intimidating to a lardy couch potato.....

Or is this just wishful thinking

Canny Jock

I completely agree with this. I normally ride fairly quickly, not the fastest but in the leading pack

Last Friday I had to pootle home (long story) and felt far more threatened than when I ride at my normal speed, I'm sure it was because a lot more cars were overtaking.

andy83

I actually feel more vulnerable at times when out on a ride with my friend, as he is generally slower than me.

I think the fact that a cyclist goes at a decent speed compared to traffic 20 - 25 then realisticlly its not safe for people to overtake me. However I always got overtaken on one stretch of road with one of the things to tell you your speed, im going around 22mph and you often see it flash to around 35 - 40 due to the idiots overtaking me, i wish the police were sitting behind them

I notice in the rain i reduce my speed for safety and feel more vulnerable, although this could be the idiots on the road

Nigel Bennett

Quite simple, really - the faster you go, the less time you're on the road and the less idiots you will encounter. (I suppose the ideal is to go so fast that you arrive before you set off.... ) I still get the loonies coming past me, though, when I'm already breaking the speed limit...

biondino

Faster = safer largely because:

a) closing speeds are reduced, giving motorists more time to deal with you when they are approaching you

b) you pass through hazards quicker (a hazard can be as simple as a road off to the left, which cars could turn down or come out of, or a multi-lane roundabout)

c) you can take primary more often while annoying motorists less; ditto pulling away faster from traffic lights etc.

d) you fit in better with traffic and appear more capable

The proviso here, of course, is that as soon as your speed is *above* what's suitable in the conditions, it very rapidly becomes much less safe than pootling. Speed without 100% concentration and an ability to cope with all potential hazards is always unwise.

pitchshifter

The faster you go the less willing traffic is to overtake you. Less of a gain if they do pass you. Especially in London when you are stop starting all the time.

Also those that over take me normally need to give it a boot to get around me quick enough so they dont hit oncoming traffic.

The Chingford Skinhead

I think it is certainly true that the faster you travel the safer you are - mostly because drivers of motor vehicles are (generally) less likely to try and pull of silly maneouvers to pass you or get out of the junction in front of you.

Sadly, that is exactly the reason why cycling in the UK will never get above the tiny minority activity that it is today. In the Netherlands everyone cycles, young, old, male and female. The infrastructure and law allows for this. In the UK unless you are fit, fast and confident then the perception of risk simply puts you off.

snailracer

Most bike-car crashes involve frontal collisions, which I would imagine would be worse if riding faster :?

Fast cycling makes you more like a motorcycle. They have no trouble keeping up with the traffic, but they still get clobbered (with great frequency) by people pulling out or turning across them. The risk mitigation for a motorcycle is using a bright headlight during the day, perhaps a fast cyclist would consider a flashing light.

The Rookie

Most my riding is (like Kieran) on NSL roads, I can't get near there speed, but I have 2 climbs, one in an NSL and one in a 40 where I do push hard as the slower I go the less patient the car drivers are to pass safely!

Simon

Norky

http://www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=2010-06-30

dondare

nwallace wrote:

Agreed,

Descending at 40 when the cars can only legally do 30 is brilliant, keeps them behind me.

Or else they overtake you doing 60, which isn't brilliant in a built up/residential area.

AndyManc

Norky wrote:

http://www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=2010-06-30

.

wyadvd

my weekly average speed is normally 15-18 mph with stretches of dual carriageway at 25 mph.

Ichoose to negotiate roundabouts on the dual carriageway. at speeds of 25 mph i match that of traffic on the roundabout and im safer. it makes me cringe when i see cyclists wobbling round roundabouts (right round the outside to turn right!!!) at 8mph then stopping at the exit sometimes cos they are too scared to take it ........scary really.

I do at least 20 and my arse sits right where the right hand wheel of a car would be on a roundabout. then you get seen. hug the perimiter and you are road kill barbeque.

AndyManc

wyadvd wrote:

.

I do at least 20 and my ars* sits right where the right hand wheel of a car would be on a roundabout. then you get seen. hug the perimiter and you are road kill barbeque.

The fact is the majority of 'commuters' are not speed freaks, most will cycle between 8-12mph, at that speed you can't expect them to take primary.

Highway code recognises roundabouts are an issue ,which raises the question why don't they do something about it.

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wyadvd

i accept that. its just that over a certain speed , cycling over even quite busy roundabouts is actually quite pleasurable, and not at all dangerous. I think more cyclists should develop the skill of going up to a spint speed for certain situations like roundabouts, if they want to live!