How To Keep Attacking!!!??

steve23
steve23 Posts: 2,202
edited June 2010 in Training, fitness and health
wierd question, but here goes.........

in road races im quite strong, i can sprint quite well, but what i struggle with is making attacks.
like today for example, i feel stong when im in a break, but if/when it gets caught (like today) and the next attck goes, i just cant go with it. where other riders who were in the break with me can go with it!!!

how to i train to become better at this?!? hope that makes sense!!??

it just frustrates me!

cheers
_______________________________________________________________________________________
If You Can't Cut It With The Big Dogs, Then Don't Pi$$ Up The Tall Trees!

Comments

  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    How much work are you doing when you're in a break - compared with other people?

    That might explain why you can't counter attack well if you're doing a lot of work in the first break.

    Any type of training that raises your FTP will help this sort of riding.
  • DanEvs
    DanEvs Posts: 640
    You need to ride some Crits. Does wonders for your recovery times.
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    Crits seem to help indeed, the pace is so up and down that you have to push to keep up, I also find after doing these crits thrashing myself, I actually recover quicker than a steady club run, weird.
  • Buckled_Rims
    Buckled_Rims Posts: 1,648
    It's usually because your so focused on keeping up a high pace during training. As others have mentioned crits change pace frequently and your training is probably so focused on a high tempo that when riders deliberately break a tempo your body can't cope.

    This was a common tactic used in many races (not just cycling) and was used hugely successfully by African athletes in the past. By breaking a persons natural rhythmic tempo it destroyed their ability to fight back. These athletes would speed up a race at a constant pace for 4 laps then slow it right down, speed up and slow it down. Western training methods at the time didn't focus on this and the body failed to cope. Some boxers change from orthodox to southpaw which is the same thing.

    That's why fartlek training is so important in many sports. Not only does it put intensity on aerobic and anaerobic systems, it helps to break "that" constant need to cycle at a fast pace.
    CAAD9
    Kona Jake the Snake
    Merlin Malt 4
  • shockedsoshocked
    shockedsoshocked Posts: 4,021
    Glass crank when in break... 8)
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • Slow1972
    Slow1972 Posts: 362
    So get in a break and then conserve energy for when you're caught?

    Wouldnt you be better to commit to the break or stay in the bunch and wait for it to be caught?

    Or are do you find when you race that when you get in a break everyone else will drag you along in the break without you having to really contribute, they then manage to keep the break away and then leave you free to go off for a fine victory?

    Happened often this season then?
  • shockedsoshocked
    shockedsoshocked Posts: 4,021
    Slow1972 wrote:
    So get in a break and then conserve energy for when you're caught?

    Wouldnt you be better to commit to the break or stay in the bunch and wait for it to be caught?

    Or are do you find when you race that when you get in a break everyone else will drag you along in the break without you having to really contribute, they then manage to keep the break away and then leave you free to go off for a fine victory?

    Happened often this season then?

    You sound angry. Been sat on recently?
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • steve23
    steve23 Posts: 2,202
    Slow1972 aww mate, you stressed or something!!?? haha

    when im in a break im committed, im a good TT'er so working in a break isnt a problem, i dont do too much nor too little, so i cant be using too much energy.

    its when the break gets caught, some riders who were in the break with me are strong enough to go again to form another, but i cant seem to have the energy!

    thats what im struggling with!
    _______________________________________________________________________________________
    If You Can't Cut It With The Big Dogs, Then Don't Pi$$ Up The Tall Trees!
  • MikeWW
    MikeWW Posts: 723
    The more threshold work you do the more it will aid fast recovery which is what you need. If the break you are in gets caught then an attack is nearly inevitable. If I'm in a break that I can see is going to get caught then I ease back to try and recover then try to hang on to a wheel. If I can't recover in time I just have to let it go, recover in the bunch and hope the break doesn't stay away
    www.lichfieldccc.org.uk
  • Thick Tester
    Thick Tester Posts: 380
    Main problem sounds of a mental nature.... In that you believe you don't have a second kick

    When you say you've got in a 'break' is that you've got a few yards ahead and then another attack has come in or is it that you've got say a minute and get caught out.

    The selection process takes longer than you think it does when you're in the thick of it!

    Either way - mid week crits for you or 30 sec on off intervals for 3 hours every night should see you good.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Hour of Power sounds like ideal training for you!

    http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopi ... sc&start=0
  • steve23
    steve23 Posts: 2,202
    cheers for all the info guys, will try some 30 on 30 off sessions!!!

    will see how i get on, thanks!!!
    _______________________________________________________________________________________
    If You Can't Cut It With The Big Dogs, Then Don't Pi$$ Up The Tall Trees!
  • robrauy
    robrauy Posts: 252
    I was thinking of downloading this as a way of helping me improve my recovery during races. Looks pretty evil !

    http://www.thesufferfest.com/video-suff ... -revolver/
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    The Fight Club one is best for road racing, Hard efforts with attacks thrown in!

    http://www.thesufferfest.com/video-suff ... ight-club/
  • Slow1972
    Slow1972 Posts: 362
    steve23 wrote:
    Slow1972 aww mate, you stressed or something!!?? haha!

    Yeahm, I was yesterday, co I work for is a bit farked and we're in the process of being sold, everythign's a bit uncertain, suppose i was venting my frustrations on here, sorry guys! :oops:

    as others have said, I reckon you need to some shorter int's with recoveries to transfer you TT abilities across to road. Look up the thread on the "Hour of Power" for "forced recovery" sessions, they are spot on, a few weeks of them and you will be attacking at will :)
  • robrauy
    robrauy Posts: 252
    NapoleonD wrote:
    The Fight Club one is best for road racing, Hard efforts with attacks thrown in!

    http://www.thesufferfest.com/video-suff ... ight-club/

    Yes - got that and did it this morning as it happens.

    Thing is the 3min rests between laps are not representative of a cat 3/4 race. My main issue is that I can handle the first 40 minutes or so of a race, but the lack of recovery eventually pushes me into the red and I'm done..

    I'm hoping doing the 1min on/1min off intervals will help with this, as they sound like they will drive me into zone 5 very quickly, and I'll then only have a brief recovery before the pain kicks in again!
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    robrauy wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    The Fight Club one is best for road racing, Hard efforts with attacks thrown in!

    http://www.thesufferfest.com/video-suff ... ight-club/

    Yes - got that and did it this morning as it happens.

    Thing is the 3min rests between laps are not representative of a cat 3/4 race. My main issue is that I can handle the first 40 minutes or so of a race, but the lack of recovery eventually pushes me into the red and I'm done..

    I'm hoping doing the 1min on/1min off intervals will help with this, as they sound like they will drive me into zone 5 very quickly, and I'll then only have a brief recovery before the pain kicks in again!

    Then do the 3 min rests at Tempo...
  • rokkala
    rokkala Posts: 649
    NapoleonD wrote:
    robrauy wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    The Fight Club one is best for road racing, Hard efforts with attacks thrown in!

    http://www.thesufferfest.com/video-suff ... ight-club/

    Yes - got that and did it this morning as it happens.

    Thing is the 3min rests between laps are not representative of a cat 3/4 race. My main issue is that I can handle the first 40 minutes or so of a race, but the lack of recovery eventually pushes me into the red and I'm done..

    I'm hoping doing the 1min on/1min off intervals will help with this, as they sound like they will drive me into zone 5 very quickly, and I'll then only have a brief recovery before the pain kicks in again!

    Then do the 3 min rests at Tempo...

    +1

    And it's only as hard as you make it. You should be sicking up in your mouth during the hill climb bits :D
  • robrauy
    robrauy Posts: 252
    Rokkala wrote:

    And it's only as hard as you make it. You should be sicking up in your mouth during the hill climb bits :D
    :D

    Was pretty close to that this morning.
  • magliaceleste
    magliaceleste Posts: 748
    NapoleonD wrote:
    The Fight Club one is best for road racing, Hard efforts with attacks thrown in!

    http://www.thesufferfest.com/video-suff ... ight-club/

    Nice one NapD. I didn't know about these. That'll make the winter indoor sessions more interesting!
  • DubaiNeil
    DubaiNeil Posts: 246
    Check the Sufferfest site for alternate ways to use their vid's - some good ideas about how to adapt them to your circumstances/requirements there...

    I have Revolver and Downward Spiral, and I find DS far more difficult to finish well :oops: (i.e. finish it without needing a bucket...)

    Neil

    (caveat: I don't road race, so can't comment on the applicability of these training approaches for what you need to achieve...)

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