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you could not make it up rip off uk or what?

karen44karen44 Posts: 21
edited June 2010 in MTB general
we are in the middle of the most savage recession since the thirties yet bike prices have gone through the roof, some bikes have gone up by over 40 per cent over the last two years with no obvious spec upgrades either. i was talking to a shop dealer the other day and he said the 2011 models will be 10 to 15 per cent dearer. i would love to know why this is happening? their must be loads of folk on here who must be singing from the same hymn sheet as myself. i will be glad to hear your opinions as personally i think we are being shafted on price uphill and down dale!
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  • Clum84Clum84 Posts: 196
    I'm sure the manufacturing costs have increased for them just as the end price has for us. It seems likely as well that they're getting fewer sales due to people not having as much cash. Both are going to result in prices being increased. Maybe they are just shafting us though.
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  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    I think it is because the bikes from about 2003-2007 were a lot cheaper than they should have been - and now we are seeing them back to what they would be if the rises are steady.

    For example in 2007 some of the big brands were knocking out 400 quid bikes rrp with hydro discs, 8 speed and damped forks, which was amazing really compared to what they had been.

    I wouldn't say all have gone up 40% though - some are better, or worse than others.

    Other reasons are fuel has generally risen which effects the transportation costs, and generally energy as a whole is more expensive.
  • cat_with_no_tailcat_with_no_tail Posts: 12,981
    Yes, prices have gone up, prices do that. I don't feel like I'm getting shafted at all though.

    There are some absolutely beltin bargains to be had out there. Just look at Pretty much EVERYTHING on Merlin, Rock Lobster, On-one, a whole range of Bikes from Halfords, constant sales at places like CRC, wiggle and Evans. The list goes on.

    If you're getting shafted, you're not looking hard enough.
  • Mountain Biking is probably one of the fastest growing sports of current times and as the number of people looking to buy decent bikes increases, it is inevitable that prices will also rise.

    Annoyingly, I found a receipt last night for some Fox Vanilla 32 RLCs that I bought in August 2007 for £325 from Leisure Lakes (reduced from £399). They're now selling discounted 2010s for £539 and 2009s for £449!!!!
  • GBP has got significantly weaker against both USD and EUR in the last few years. The changes in price are almost entirely driven by these changes in exchange rate.
  • wordnumbwordnumb Posts: 847
    Mountain Biking is probably one of the fastest growing sports of current times and as the number of people looking to buy decent bikes increases, it is inevitable that prices will also rise.

    To generalise massively, it usually works the other way: More sales = bulk discounts for retailers = cheaper bikes.
  • fletch8928fletch8928 Posts: 794
    The exchange rate has an awful lot to do with price flucuations. Although like everything it usually only changes on the up.

    Like CWNT said, there are some places to buy and places not to, look around. .

    If you think somethings a rip off then either haggle or shop elswhere. If your thinking of getting a new bike then do it before the 10/15% rises.

    I did notice that the 10 version of my Cube was actually cheaper than the 09, slight spec change though.

    On a whole everything is dearer. Energy, fuel, food, clothes, most hoobies eqt, furniture, bathroom thingies.
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  • -liam--liam- Posts: 1,831
    Tip. Do NOT buy from bike shops. They are a complete rip off and get away with it because to many people have a romantic perception of them which is developed by believing this notion that they are run by a helpful chap with oily fingers that will do anything to help anyone that walks through the door. They don't. They are a business looking to make as much cash as they can, like any other business. To many naive people out there that are happy to pay a mark up on internet prices of up to 50% in my experience. Overheads my ar$e! :lol:

    Shop around on tinternet and keep the dealers honest. Get what you need and get the bike shop to fit it if you can't do it yourself. They will learn ;)
  • cat_with_no_tailcat_with_no_tail Posts: 12,981
    -Liam- wrote:
    Tip. Do NOT buy from bike shops. They are a complete rip off and get away with it because to many people have a romantic perception of them which is developed by believing this notion that they are run by a helpful chap with oily fingers that will do anything to help anyone that walks through the door. They don't. They are a business looking to make as much cash as they can, like any other business. To many naive people out there that are happy to pay a mark up on internet prices of up to 50% in my experience. Overheads my ar$e! :lol:

    Shop around on tinternet and keep the dealers honest. Get what you need and get the bike shop to fit it if you can't do it yourself. They will learn ;)

    Steady on fella, that's a bit harsh!

    My LBS are a nice bunch of chaps, they do their best to price-match where possible. But it's only a small shop, they've not got the cash or the space to compete with the big boys so it's not always possible. I still ask them though.
  • chedabobchedabob Posts: 1,133
    -Liam- wrote:
    Tip. Do NOT buy from bike shops. They are a complete rip off and get away with it because to many people have a romantic perception of them which is developed by believing this notion that they are run by a helpful chap with oily fingers that will do anything to help anyone that walks through the door. They don't. They are a business looking to make as much cash as they can, like any other business. To many naive people out there that are happy to pay a mark up on internet prices of up to 50% in my experience. Overheads my ar$e! :lol:

    Shop around on tinternet and keep the dealers honest. Get what you need and get the bike shop to fit it if you can't do it yourself. They will learn ;)

    A bit harsh. They aren't out to make the biggest profit. They just don't have the buying power the likes of Halfords, Decathlon or CRC do. They can't pull the usual deals like selling bikes at a loss to then scalp you other stuff, because if you don't buy the other stuff, they've made a pretty big loss.
  • hoochylalahoochylala Posts: 987
    karen44 wrote:
    we are in the middle of the most savage recession since the thirties

    Think you answered you own question.....although it is annoying as I am in the market for a new bike myself....maybe.

    -Liam- you've only gone and done it now :)
  • biff55biff55 Posts: 1,404
    although currency exchange rates and cost of raw materials have an effect , the retail price of any product is determined by the marketing dept.
    e.g. they price items at what they think folk will pay for them.
    ultimately consumer demand will decide if prices fall or rise , simple economics really.
  • WappygixerWappygixer Posts: 1,396
    -Liam- wrote:
    Tip. Do NOT buy from bike shops. They are a complete rip off and get away with it because to many people have a romantic perception of them which is developed by believing this notion that they are run by a helpful chap with oily fingers that will do anything to help anyone that walks through the door. They don't. They are a business looking to make as much cash as they can, like any other business. To many naive people out there that are happy to pay a mark up on internet prices of up to 50% in my experience. Overheads my ar$e! :lol:

    Shop around on tinternet and keep the dealers honest. Get what you need and get the bike shop to fit it if you can't do it yourself. They will learn ;)

    Not so easy to send a bike back for a gear adjust though if it doesn't work out of the box, and if you need a warranty claim again its not easy and thats if the company is still going.
    LBS do have overheads and council rents are ridiculously expensive not to mention all the taxes that have to be paid.
    You are also paying for their experience which to some is worth more than a couple of quid savings.
    I run a cycle workshop and have a very loyal customer base, we may not be the cheapest on everything but at least the customer can talk to us face to face.

    Back to the OPs point it is to do with exchange rates.Shimano prices have gone up by 50-60% in the past year due to exchange rates.Its nothing to do with the bike shops or Madison the UK importer, its purely exchange rates.Also running costs in China and such like are also going up as they are demanding higher rates of pay.After all we all like a payrise every year and this cost gets passed on to the production of the bikes etc.
    We had it good for a few years but now its back to reality.
    The early 90's were expensive times for cyclists and now we have come full circle.
  • karen44karen44 Posts: 21
    very good point wappygixer which bike shop do you work in? i live in altrincham.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    i like liams take on buying bike related stuff.

    theres nowt to say you cant buy online and get stuf fixed at a bike shop, for those folk who cant do these jobs themselves it is the best of both worlds, cheaper stuff in the first place (usually) and then a shop to get stuf fixed.

    mind you, good luck finding a bike shop which isnt full of pompous idiots who want to make money from you.

    i know not all bike shops are like that, but all of the ones i used to go in were EXACTLY like that.
  • hoochylalahoochylala Posts: 987
    I started biking a couple of years ago, and to be honest dont visit bike shops normally as I was put off by a few when I started. There always seemed to be an air of arrogance and annoyance at the questions I may of asked.

    Perhaps I was asking stupid questions? :) By consequence though, im guilty of the buying online scenario.
  • -liam--liam- Posts: 1,831
    lol sorry if i've ruffled a few feathers :D but in my experience what i said is true. Clearly, you can't apply the same logic to everyone but my point stands. Its a fact and these honest helpful chaps can't apply the mark ups they do on the basis of buying power or overheads. Why can't they buy an item online like me and charge a fiver on top? I'd pay that...but 20 quid for a set of spd's? (In my experience) yer having a laff :lol: blatant profiteering.
    Now calm down :lol:
  • Mark_KMark_K Posts: 666
    It will be hard to get the LBS to fit your nice shiny bits that you bought on line when all the lbs are shut because everyone's buying their nice shiny bits online :shock:

    I don't mind paying a honest guy for a honest days work personally
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Mark_K wrote:
    It will be hard to get the LBS to fit your nice shiny bits that you bought on line when all the lbs are shut because everyone's buying their nice shiny bits online :shock:

    which puts the ball firmly in the court of the LBS. if stuff was cheaper, more of it would be bought. simples.

    i know about over heads and bulk buying and whatnot but the lbs needs to make a choice, make less profit or make no profit.

    as liam mentioned, why not buy stuff online themselves and charge a small amount extra instead of charging retail for stuff?

    its difficult i know, but its tough tits, no one is forcing anyone to work in a bike shop.
  • DaveHudsonDaveHudson Posts: 290
    Mark_K wrote:
    It will be hard to get the LBS to fit your nice shiny bits that you bought on line when all the lbs are shut because everyone's buying their nice shiny bits online :shock:

    I don't mind paying a honest guy for a honest days work personally

    +1

    The LBS is important to everyone, There could be a situation where you need a part quickly and all the shops have shut down, Time off the bike is frustrating. Support your LBS and they will do their best for you.
  • Mark_KMark_K Posts: 666
    Don'T get me wrong i don't want to be riped off anymore than the next man and I'll happily tell the lbs thanks but no thanks if i think they are taking the piss with the full retail esp on old stock parts ect. But it must be heart breaking for them after all their time and investment for people to come in try items on poke, prod and get advice on things and then hear them say OK ta I'll go and get one online !!!!
    I think its worth paying a LITTLE extra from time to time for the expertize and peace of mind that you get from your lbs purchase not to mention supporting your local economy !!!
  • RevellRiderRevellRider Posts: 1,794
    which puts the ball firmly in the court of the LBS. if stuff was cheaper, more of it would be bought. simples.

    i know about over heads and bulk buying and whatnot but the lbs needs to make a choice, make less profit or make no profit.

    as liam mentioned, why not buy stuff online themselves and charge a small amount extra instead of charging retail for stuff?

    its difficult i know, but its tough tits, no one is forcing anyone to work in a bike shop.

    I read in Bike Biz (I believe) many years ago that after all of his overheads an average Joe bike shops makes about 2.5% profit. Sometimes an item can be bought off an online retailer cheaper than it cost to buy it from the official distributor (Merlin and their SLX cassettes spring to mind), but most of the time internet prices are nowhere near cost prices. So why would a retailer buy of the 'net and add a little mark up?
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    as liam mentioned, why not buy stuff online themselves and charge a small amount extra instead of charging retail for stuff?

    Because it is cheaper for them in a lot of cases to buy from the importer.

    Many people use the LBS because of the support they offer, test rides, trying stuff out and seeing it in the flesh. And this costs. Plus the workshop facilities. Some can't, or don't have the time to sort stuff out themselevs and this is a big market for them. Add to that that if you want a bit quickly on a sunday afternoon, buying online is going to be no good.

    Some will happily pay the extra because they have used the shops facilities and is easier to return or get something looked at.
  • MrChuckMrChuck Posts: 1,663
    mind you, good luck finding a bike shop which isnt full of pompous idiots who want to make money from you.

    Good luck finding any sort of shop which isn't interested in your money.
  • cat_with_no_tailcat_with_no_tail Posts: 12,981
    DaveHudson wrote:
    Mark_K wrote:
    It will be hard to get the LBS to fit your nice shiny bits that you bought on line when all the lbs are shut because everyone's buying their nice shiny bits online :shock:

    I don't mind paying a honest guy for a honest days work personally

    +1

    The LBS is important to everyone, There could be a situation where you need a part quickly and all the shops have shut down, Time off the bike is frustrating. Support your LBS and they will do their best for you.

    I'm not supporting a shop purely because they're local, that's just stupid!

    The good shops will be able to come FAIRLY close to big suppliers, and people will be happy to pay the extra because they're nice and friendly and good to deal with. (Like my LBS for example)

    The ones that charge over the odds, and are run and staffed by self important c0cks (like the ones Sheepsteeth was talking about) can go bust, good riddance to them too.
  • DaveHudsonDaveHudson Posts: 290
    Sometimes it's simply not possible to get close to big suppliers, I know this all to well. I've been working in a small bike shop for a number of years and I personally buy from various places as it can often be below the cost we pay.

    I will always try the local shops if I want to buy something purely for the convenience and being able to talk to a person not some faceless organisation. I've been messed around by the biggest companies, Never once by the local shops.
  • MrChuckMrChuck Posts: 1,663
    DaveHudson wrote:

    I will always try the local shops if I want to buy something purely for the convenience and being able to talk to a person not some faceless organisation. I've been messed around by the biggest companies, Never once by the local shops.

    Convenience depends, for me (and probably a lot of other people) going to a shop is far less convenient than going online. Exceptions are needing something in a hurry and possibly clothes.
  • stubsstubs Posts: 5,001
    DaveHudson wrote:
    I will always try the local shops if I want to buy something purely for the convenience and being able to talk to a person not some faceless organisation. I've been messed around by the biggest companies, Never once by the local shops.

    Unfortunately my experience is the opposite I have been messed about rotten by 2 local bike shops who will never get my trade again if they were the last place on earth selling bike parts.

    Never had any trouble withe likes of CRC Merlin Superstar.

    Even people who work in bike shops have to admit too many LBS are run by complete and utter twunts who deserve to go bust but for some weird reason cyclists keep going there because they think they must shop local.

    I also have motorbikes and only very rarely do you get that unfortunate blend of arrogance and incompetence in motorbike shops
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  • dwilldwill Posts: 150
    i was told off a sales rep that the mark up on bikes is at least 100% most of the time more , the same rep got me a bike for my wife for £50 less than half the rrp so yes i think were being well shafted.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    MrChuck wrote:
    mind you, good luck finding a bike shop which isnt full of pompous idiots who want to make money from you.

    Good luck finding any sort of shop which isn't interested in your money.

    agreed, but in the case of bike shops, i can buy the stuff on line and i am rarely in enough of a rush to go to my lbs, they are webbos, as have almost all of the LBS i have visited, each was staffed by complete know it all sheepstwats.

    this is just my experience of course.

    as it happens, apart from food, i dont know what i buy from the highstreet these days, the tinternet is from bargainsville.
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