Weird accident........

rolf_f

Aguila wrote:

Well in your description you say you dont know what happened until you found yourself on the floor on the 3 occasions. If that happens when you are driving you could quite easily kill someone. You also say that usually you would have to do something extraordinary to black out, so by definition things have changed.

If you dont want to believe me go to your GP and ask if you should drive.

You interpreting my attempt to state what happened which isn't enough to make a diagnosis on. I found myself on the floor the first time because I went over the handlebars. I didn't blackout before hand - I'm sure enough that the reason I can't remember the reason why I went over was because I went straight into that 'everything happening in slow motion' thing you have when in the process of having an accident. On that basis, I think it is to be expected that the short term memory bit beforehand was lost (apparently people normally clap speakers for 7 seconds because after 7 seconds, they have forgotten what the speaker was saying.

The accident/shock triggered my PSVT. This is not unexpected. I was dizzy and faint afterwards. If I’d been at home I would have sat down for 10 minutes, lowered my heart rate and would have been fine. As I wasn’t home and wanted to be, I made a duff judgement call and coasted back. As I was still experiencing the high heart rate the effort of getting off the bike made me dizzy enough to black out for the first time for a second pitching me on the floor. This was not unpredictable and wouldn’t have happened if I’d not been in such a hurry to get back.

The incident in the morning was a bit less expected but getting up suddenly and feeling my arm still not right would reasonably trigger it again. I’ll grant that one was relatively sudden but I felt a bit off all day Sunday and I’m fairly sure that any exertion most of that day would have brought it on. On the other hand, on a normal day I can happily ride 100 miles and 10,000 feet through the Dales without a hint of bother.

Please Aguila – I know my condition; I know how often I get the symptoms and how significant they are likely to be. I know my condition; I don’t need to believe you as you don’t know anything about it and I know what my GP would say regarding me driving. I have been through all of this with doctors and consultants and have acted in accordance with their recommendations. If it wasn’t safe for me to drive, they would have stopped me driving. If you want to know more about the condition look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supraventr ... achycardia but please don’t keep going on about it as it is getting annoying. There are plenty more dangerous people on the roads than those with Tachycardia. About 0.2-0.3% of the population have PSVT (so, on average, 1 in every 300 cars is driven by someone with PSVT) – that means that there are a good 150,000+ people with this condition in the UK alone many of whom won’t even be diagnosed. On the other hand, 10% of adults used illegal drugs in 2005/6 in the UK http://www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/drugmisuse07.

However you interpret my words which, who knows, may be less than perfect descriptions of what happened, I do understand my condition and what happened is consistent with what I expect from previous experience. If you think I am being inconsistent in my explanation, (I don’t think I was) please, please choose to believe this rather than what you read before.

Aguila

OK you've clearly made your mind up. FWIW I know a lot about SVT, I've personally treated lots of people with it, the hospital I work in is an electrophysiology centre doing the sort of radio-ablations you have described.

Yes SVTs are fairly common, especially if you include atrial fibrillation. However actally losing conciousness due to one is not. Most are either asymptomatic or result in palpitations, light headedness, breathlessness or even a little chest pain.

You are not in that mild group and are blacking out. You may think you know all there is to know about this but you are not a cardiologist and do not have a crystal ball. How do you know you are not having a new more serious arythmia like VT?? Did you do an ECG at the time?

I know you feel I am being unreasonable but you are taking risks with other people's safety, which I do not think is acceptable.

I've checked on the DVLA website:


"The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) states the following apply after an arrhythmia:
o Driving must cease if the arrhythmia has caused or is likely to cause incapacity.
o Driving may be permitted when the underlying cause has been identified and controlled
for at least 4 weeks.
o DVLA need not be notified unless there are distracting/disabling symptoms"

The only cases of syncope that do not incur driving suspension are clear cut simple faints. Your episodes are clearly not this. So not only should you not be driving but you should notify the DVLA, you are legally obliged to do so.

rolf_f

Aguila wrote:

Yes SVTs are fairly common, especially if you include atrial fibrillation. However actally losing conciousness due to one is not. Most are either asymptomatic or result in palpitations, light headedness, breathlessness or even a little chest pain.

You are not in that mild group and are blacking out. You may think you know all there is to know about this but you are not a cardiologist and do not have a crystal ball. How do you know you are not having a new more serious arythmia like VT?? Did you do an ECG at the time?

No, I'm not a cardiologist but I have spoken to several. I have had ECGs. My symptoms are as you describe above exept that there is no chest pain. Symptoms occur very infrequently and significant ones virtually never except when something else exceptional happens eg this accident. Light headedness is likely to result in a faint if, rather than resting, you do something to exacerbate it. The 'blackouts' are simple faints - if I've used terminology that is technically incorrect I apologise. Infact - it was inducing just such a blackout/faint when I had the chest tape that enabled my diagnosis in the first place.

I appreciate you have professional knowledge but I'm guessing that you are not a cardiologist either (what are your medical qualifications?). Why will you not accept the fact that I have been diagnosed (by the aforementioned cardiologist) for a condition which has not changed since that diagnosis and which I was told quite clearly that there was no question that I should stop driving? I'm not a reckless idiot that cares nothing for anyone and I resent the implication that I am thoughI do understand your concern.

I repeat again - you do not know anything about this (my condition, my circumstances). I'm not going to repeat this anymore. If you must bother me further, please do it by pm as I don't think my medical history is of interest to this forum.

WesternWay

I repeat again - you do not know anything about this (my condition, my circumstances). I'm not going to repeat this anymore. If you must bother me further, please do it by pm as I don't think my medical history is of interest to this forum.

Rolf, Good luck :-) I think that actually your medical condition DOES seem to interest the forum :-)

I am with you in that probably YOU know more about YOUR condition than most of the people here.

WesternWay

I repeat again - you do not know anything about this (my condition, my circumstances). I'm not going to repeat this anymore. If you must bother me further, please do it by pm as I don't think my medical history is of interest to this forum.

Rolf, Good luck :-) I think that actually your medical condition DOES seem to interest the forum :-)

I am with you in that probably YOU know more about YOUR condition than most of the people here.

Aguila

OK last word from me on the subject:

1 I'm a consultant physician. MB BChir MRCP PhD if you are really interested

2 Your blackouts are not simple faints, by definition simple faints are not caused by arrythmias, rather excess vagal activity. You say in your last post that a blackout lead to the diagnosis on an ECG. This means the balackout was definitely caused by the arrythmia. Again therefore not a simple faint.

3 The DVLA rules are I think very clear here and state that you are not to drive.

I'm sorry if you feel offended, that is not my intention. However I do feel what you are doing is very irresponsible, not to mention illegal. What you choose to do is of course up to you, I just hope I dont share any road space with you.

rjsterry

Diagnosis via cycling forum, hmmmm. I've no doubt you know your stuff Aguila, and certainly more on the subject than I do, but I'm not sure you can offer much more than general observations on the particular condition that affects Rolf F, without meeting him in person, taking a full medical history and so on.

Aguila

Not an unreasonable comment rjs but he's given us enough information to make a clear decision on driving, the diagnosis has already been established. As for driving, just read the DVLA rules as above.

I really dont want to seem out of order but it really annoys me when people continue to drive when they are told they shouldn't. I see this at work not infrequently eg new diagnoses of epilepsy, after strokes, sleep apnoea etc.

It never fails to amaze me how some people's only concern is inconvenience for themselves. No thought for potentially ploughing into pedestrians, other road users etc.

I dont make the rules but they are there for all to see.

andrewjoseph

I'm with Aguila on this one,

Rolf came on here asking for advice on medical issues, he has stated that the blackouts are a surprise, i.e. no warning.

The reason for not remembering the cause of the initial fall may be:

a blackout

a concussion due to the fall

either of these are a cause for concern.

Knowing the history and symptoms of an existing condition does not mean he knows all that is needed to know.

In effect he has said, I've fallen off my bike for an unknown reason, had 3 blackouts and hurt my elbow, i have a history of heart problems. I'm not worried about my heart or the blackouts, what should I do about my elbow?

Rolf may not be worried about it, but the rest of us should be, he may blackou on his bike in front of my car and cause me to crash into a bus shelter full of people.

I am tempted to bring this thread to the attention of DVLA so they can find out who this person is.

Rolf, you are being very irresponsible, your actions can have serious consequences on other people.

Your contact details can be found by the relevant people and you could end up in serious trouble.

rolf_f

Aguila wrote:

Not an unreasonable comment rjs but he's given us enough information to make a clear decision on driving, the diagnosis has already been established. As for driving, just read the DVLA rules as above.

I really dont want to seem out of order but it really annoys me when people continue to drive when they are told they shouldn't. I see this at work not infrequently eg new diagnoses of epilepsy, after strokes, sleep apnoea etc.

It never fails to amaze me how some people's only concern is inconvenience for themselves. No thought for potentially ploughing into pedestrians, other road users etc.

I dont make the rules but they are there for all to see.

And it annoys , and worries me when people think they can know from a few words written on a forum how to better diagnose something than has previously been diagnosed professionally, face to face. I have not been told I shouldn't drive - I have been told it is fine for me to drive. I have never had any case when I have fainted except under exceptional circumstances and that has been after the PSVT has given me warning. In fact, the number of faints I have had in the last 10 years amounts to two - those that occured as a result of an accident.

I'm glad you are qualified but it concerns me that you think you can make a diagnosis based on the content of this thread. The fact is, I was somewhat unimpressed with the length of time it took to get a diagnosis when I brought the issue up (this was when occurences increased slightly - see, being responsible there) - given the symptoms I described, they could have probably come to that conclusion a lot earlier. What I am getting at is that if a consultant can't diagnose my condition without an ECG when I am sat next to him, what makes you think you can do better when you've not even met me? There are no shortage of crap doctors about. I hope you are not one of them but I do wonder.

As I said, please do not post any more on here about it. I think I'll be off now to report this thread.

tailwindhome

Rolf F wrote:

I think I'll be off now to report this thread.

Not sure why you would feel the need to report anything Aquila has posted.

Aguila

PM sent Rolf.

rolf_f

TailWindHome wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

I think I'll be off now to report this thread.

Not sure why you would feel the need to report anything Aquila has posted.

Because I have politely asked him to either stop posting on here or discuss it with me by PM but he has refused and I do not find it particularly pleasant being told how irresponsible I am by someone who knows know real facts of my case and should know better than to imply otherwise.

andrewjoseph

Rolf F wrote:

real facts of my case and should know better than to imply otherwise.

based on the facts you have given us, I think you are being very irresponsible.

Reporting this thread to the site owners will show them how irresponsible you are being and may hasten forwarding of your details to the relevant authorities.

Which is a good thing.

tailwindhome

Rolf F wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

I think I'll be off now to report this thread.

Not sure why you would feel the need to report anything Aquila has posted.

Because I have politely asked him to either stop posting on here or discuss it with me by PM but he has refused and I do not find it particularly pleasant being told how irresponsible I am by someone who knows know real facts of my case and should know better than to imply otherwise.

Aquila only knows the facts that you have posted, and has acknowledged that, but does seem to have professional knowledge of the condition you describe and has advised you to get further medical advice and not to drive until you do.

It seems to me that his advice has geniuine motives and you are chosing to ignore it.

I have no intention of getting into an arguement with you, but if you post on the forum you can't be suprised and offended if people posted perfectly reasonable and qualified advice just because you disagree with that advice

andy83

first of all rolf hope you are ok

I can understand your frustration

I have a medical condition that I have once mentioned on here and whilst I got some nice responses I also got some saying I didnt know what I was talking about. Im not going to repeat it again as dont really feel the need. I was also told its a made up condition and I should get on with my life

Yes conditions can have generic symptoms and these happen in most, but also it is down to the individual in how they deal and cope with it.

by all accounts I shouldnt be working, cycling loads of miles and leading a normal life otherwise I dont have my said condition. This is a load of rubbish, I have found ways to deal with it myself and no professional can tell me how im feeling. Ok its been hard and took around 3 - 4 years to learn to listen to my body.

yes a forum is where you will get opinions however without seeing someone you cannot diagnose a condition they have.

andrewjoseph

From what I have seen, nobody is diagnosing Rolf's condition, several people are urging him to stop driving or riding until he has been checked out, because what he describes is potentially dangerous, to himself and others.

rolf_f

TailWindHome wrote:

It seems to me that his advice has geniuine motives and you are chosing to ignore it.

I have no intention of getting into an arguement with you, but if you post on the forum you can't be suprised and offended if people posted perfectly reasonable and qualified advice just because you disagree with that advice

I am sure Aguilas motives are genuine but the fact is that I have had extensive tests, face to face with consultants and have made decisions based on their advice and with their support. I do not see what benefit would be served by me going back in this instance since nothing has changed. I have previously expressed the concerns that Aguila has made, to those consultants, and they have said I am fine to drive and do any other normal activity.

Thanks for the support Andy - I am fine. Arm getting better which is nice.

andrewjoseph - I am sorry if what I have said has given you the impression that I am being irresponsible. Honestly, I am not. I really have done everything properly and by the book; this is what is frustrating me so much. The only reason I know that I have this particular condition was because I pushed the consultants so hard. If I hadn't they'd have just sent me home saying 'dunno'.

Aguila - thanks for the PM. Have replied.

Monkeypump

TailWindHome wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

I think I'll be off now to report this thread.

Not sure why you would feel the need to report anything Aquila has posted.

Because I have politely asked him to either stop posting on here or discuss it with me by PM but he has refused and I do not find it particularly pleasant being told how irresponsible I am by someone who knows know real facts of my case and should know better than to imply otherwise.

Aquila only knows the facts that you have posted, and has acknowledged that, but does seem to have professional knowledge of the condition you describe and has advised you to get further medical advice and not to drive until you do.

It seems to me that his advice has geniuine motives and you are chosing to ignore it.

I have no intention of getting into an arguement with you, but if you post on the forum you can't be suprised and offended if people posted perfectly reasonable and qualified advice just because you disagree with that advice

This.

andrewjoseph

Rolf,

I think you are missing the point, your existing condition is almost incidental in this. though it may possibly be a contributing factor, you don't yet know it is not.

the main points are that:

you have come off your bike, for whatever reason.

you have had several blackouts.

your heart condition may or may not be involved with this but there are too many potentially serious issues to ignore.

rolf_f

andrewjoseph wrote:

Rolf,

I think you are missing the point, your existing condition is almost incidental in this. though it may possibly be a contributing factor, you don't yet know it is not.

the main points are that:

you have come off your bike, for whatever reason.

you have had several blackouts.

your heart condition may or may not be involved with this but there are too many potentially serious issues to ignore.

I fell off my bike and had two faints caused by low blood pressure (I guess) caused by the PSVT. I know my condition - I've had it for 30 years. I know how my body reacts to certain circumstances and this has been entirely consistent with that. If anything had occurred that was new to me, I would have done something about it.

I shall try not to reply to this any further because it isn't going anywhere useful. I have learned a valuable lesson.

kelsen

Referring back to your original post...

Rolf F wrote:

There’s probably a moral in here somewhere but I’m not sure where!

I think this is it...

Rolf F wrote:

I shall try not to reply to this any further because it isn't going anywhere useful. I have learned a valuable lesson.

andrewjoseph

Rolf F wrote:

I fell off my bike and had two faints caused by low blood pressure (I guess) caused by the PSVT.

This is what worries me, you can't be certain of the cause, yet insist you are fine.