Shooters Hill vs Ditchling Beacon

mattward1979

Hey all,

In my preperation for this years L2B, I ventured out from Dartford to Greenwich, taking on the biggest hill I could find in the process. This was Shooters Hill..

I know the Beacon is going to be Harder, but is this a viable training hill or should I be looking for something more challenging?

PS, did the hill both ways and although it hurt and I dropped to my lowest gear for the stretch near the peaks, pleased that I didnt have to walk!

Lillywhite

Saw the Pros go up Ditchling several times in the Wincanton Classic in the early 90's and they were all in the big ring.

mattward1979

Hmm maybe if I killed myself and took up cycling from the age of 5 in my reincarnated body.. =P

Doubt ill be doing any big ring action on hill any time soon hehe!

ratsbeyfus

I do ditchling beacon as part of my commute, and once you get used to it it really isn't that bad, it's just that it comes at the end of a long ride and is crowded with people. If you lose your momentum on it and stop it is very hard to get started. One problem for many people riding up it is that it is very curvy so you are never quite sure how near you are to the top - people sometimes give up when they are only one bend away from the end. There are six main bends on the hill, with the last one right near the 'summit'. Two of the steepest ramps are near bends four and five, but these ramps do level off and give you time for your legs to recover. Once you round bend 5 you will see a warning sign with a horse on it - aim for that, and once you are there you will be at the final short bend which has an ice cream van at the top. My advice is to spin your way up in the saddle, and get out of the saddle for the ramps. It'll take about 10 minutes from top to bottom depending upon your speed and the crowds.

BTW I think I used to live near Shooters hill when I was a kid but can't quite remember which one it was. Is it one of the ones that leads to Crystal Palace? Happy days!

Good luck on the day!

PostieJohn

Wise words from Rats.
DB isn't that bad, it certainly isn't even in the top 10 downs climbs, that I know of, esp as you'll be able to use the whole road (if you're early enough). Cutting across the bends can have you going down hill!.

Don't get me wrong, it's no cake walk, and I'm certainly no KoM contender, but I've never felt like stepping off, on it.

The last time I was up there, a girl in front did get off, right on the apex of the last bend, I was so gutted for her, she must have been so pi$$ed off.

giant_man

Ditchling Beacon is imo overrated as a major climb. Done it a few times, but it is 1400m and the fake brow always gets me! Not bad climb overall though. Never done Shooters Hill though.

danf211

I've done shooters hill a couple of times and it doesn't seem that bad. I've heard lots about DB though, so I imagine it's worse!
I found out I got a place on L2B today (I was on the waiting list) so I'm looking forward to the DB challenge - going to get some hill training in tomorrow!

sunburntknees

Lillywhite wrote:

Saw the Pros go up Ditchling several times in the Wincanton Classic in the early 90's and they were all in the big ring.

If you believe everything you hear on here, it's a wonder pro's ever bother going out with a smaller ring.

markshaw77

Have done both (I do Shooters daily on my commute) and they are not really that comparable IMO

The biggest difference is the length - Shooters is at most 0.5-0.75kms whereas DB is closer to 2.5kms - the gradient is not dissimilar (both average and max), but the difference in length will be noticeable, plus you are going to be dong it with 45m+ in your legs!!

If you want hill training from Dartford (I live there too!) you are better heading towards the north downs (nearest point is towards Sevenoaks) or knatts valley where you will find a number of longer and steeper hills that would make good training. PM me if you want more info or routes - or if you are willing to get up real early on a weekend I'd be happy to have the company.

Any hill climbing will be good prep, so if shooters is the easiest/most convenient then it is still better than nothing, but if you want to test your legs look further south!

ratsbeyfus

markshaw77 wrote:

Have done both (I do Shooters daily on my commute) and they are not really that comparable IMO

The biggest difference is the length - Shooters is at most 0.5-0.75kms whereas DB is closer to 2.5kms

Nah... DB is less than a mile. There's a false flat at the top, and a gradual slope at the bottom, but the hard bit is less than a mile long.

mattward1979

markshaw77 wrote:

Have done both (I do Shooters daily on my commute) and they are not really that comparable IMO

The biggest difference is the length - Shooters is at most 0.5-0.75kms whereas DB is closer to 2.5kms - the gradient is not dissimilar (both average and max), but the difference in length will be noticeable, plus you are going to be dong it with 45m+ in your legs!!

If you want hill training from Dartford (I live there too!) you are better heading towards the north downs (nearest point is towards Sevenoaks) or knatts valley where you will find a number of longer and steeper hills that would make good training. PM me if you want more info or routes - or if you are willing to get up real early on a weekend I'd be happy to have the company.

Any hill climbing will be good prep, so if shooters is the easiest/most convenient then it is still better than nothing, but if you want to test your legs look further south!

I found a route that heads down to Vigo and loops back around to Dartford so will try that as soon as I have a day off. Supposed to have "an evil sting in the tail" as the route creator says, so should be better training I think as it will be 30+ miles before the hill.

And thanks pm on the way!

irezumi

Did L2B a few years back and the biggest problem with Ditchling beacon are the other people who are generally walking up it. The hill itself isnt that much of a problem.

Shooters hill is as good as anywhere to practice. If you want a longer hill then there's always Wrotham. Little hill called Vigo hill is quite steep around there too (completely failed to read the last post where you mentioned Vigo). There's also Yester road in Chislehurst which is a bit quieter.

Biggin Hill isnt too disimilar from Ditchling from memory, both have a bit of a bend and similar gradient I think. Bit further away still though.

Lillywhite

sunburntknees wrote:

If you believe everything you hear on here, it's a wonder pro's ever bother going out with a smaller ring.

Most Pros only have the small ring on to keep their bike above the UCI minimum weight of 6.8kgs.

Joking apart, all hills like Ditchling are never going to be a real challenge to European Pros used to long climbs in the TDF/Veulta/Giro where all but the top climbers often use the 39 ring.

pabwal

I have been going up the whiteways hill nr Arundle, hopefully that should help but have no idea how bad the beacon is. Whiteways isn't terrible but not looking forward to the crowds. we have a 7am start so hoping we will be able to get away from the main leavers.

danf211

I usually head out towards westerham from bromley on saturdays (any riding partners would be great - pm me!) and I find that westerham hill is one of the harder hills I've done. I live near the top of the hill near yester road so I'm always faced with that uphill climb at the end of every ride! It's not that bad I think - depends how far you've ridden though! If anyone knows any other hills nearby that would be challenging, i'd appreciate the info!

STEFANOS4784

sunburntknees wrote:

Lillywhite wrote:

Saw the Pros go up Ditchling several times in the Wincanton Classic in the early 90's and they were all in the big ring.

If you believe everything you hear on here, it's a wonder pro's ever bother going out with a smaller ring.

Exactly, some on here seem to think 53 is a big ring. Pah, 80 toothed ring here and i've been up the white cliifs of dover on it with an 11 toothed gear at the back and then carried on pedalling until i got to the moon. Easy.

ratsbeyfus

Oops, just realised that I miscounted the number of bends on Ditchling Beacon - it's 8 not 6... sorry!

mosfet

danf211 wrote:

I usually head out towards westerham from bromley on saturdays (any riding partners would be great - pm me!) and I find that westerham hill is one of the harder hills I've done. I live near the top of the hill near yester road so I'm always faced with that uphill climb at the end of every ride! It's not that bad I think - depends how far you've ridden though! If anyone knows any other hills nearby that would be challenging, i'd appreciate the info!

You've got a feast of good climbs available to you around Westerham. The two most difficult are Chalk Pit Lane and Succomb's Hill. Some nice long, challenging climbs are Titsey Hill, Station Road (Woldingham) and Toy's Hill through Brasted Chart.

I'm concentrating on my hill climbing and live nearby, would be happy to join you on some lumpy rides.

mattward1979

Headed out again today and did the 20 mile loop of Dartford > Greenwich >Dartford and man was it fun =D

I think a lot of the hill mentality is knowing that its going to end at some point, so just keep the legs moving!

Cut nearly 10 mins off of my first attempt so Id say that was definite progress!

PostieJohn

pabwal wrote:

I have been going up the whiteways hill nr Arundle, hopefully that should help but have no idea how bad the beacon is. Whiteways isn't terrible but not looking forward to the crowds. we have a 7am start so hoping we will be able to get away from the main leavers.

IMO Whiteways isn't the best prep for DB, perhaps the 1st part is similar, but the levelling off comes too soon.
A true tests involves you 'man-ing up' and climbing back over Berry Hill, (not that I've been up that in a while ), which is in my top 10 Downs climbs.

Nearest to DB would be Harting Down, the main road way, from Petersfield (another top 10).
But I guess if you go over that way you might as well head out to The Beacon.

Smokin Joe

Ditchling Beacon is nothing special. It get's it's reputation because most of the riders on L2B are non cyclists who have to get off their BSOs and walk. I can't see any regular road cyclist having a problem on it.

joosed

Smokin Joe wrote:

Ditchling Beacon is nothing special. It get's it's reputation because most of the riders on L2B are non cyclists who have to get off their BSOs and walk. I can't see any regular road cyclist having a problem on it.

The riders here attempting DB seem to be on the large side, no?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hygGesEHlm0

paul64

Out of interest, how does Ditchling compare with hills in the North Downs (Box Hill, Ranmore Road, Ranmore Common Road, Leith Hill etc.) as the latter are my local area and I have always wondered how my legs would find DB?

FWIW I still hate Crocknorth Road, White Down Hill and similar due to sheer gradient that 100kg and 34 x 27 still don't quite gel with

Heckler1974

+1 on reputation, it's a long drag and quite steep in places but doable. For my own edification I've gone up it in the big ring (because it's there man, because it's there) but not to be recommended. Whilst huffing and puffing up it in last year's L2B I was passed by someone on a single speed, just to give you some idea of how doable it is.

sherer

mosfet wrote:

You've got a feast of good climbs available to you around Westerham. The two most difficult are Chalk Pit Lane and Succomb's Hill. Some nice long, challenging climbs are Titsey Hill, Station Road (Woldingham) and Toy's Hill through Brasted Chart.

I'm concentrating on my hill climbing and live nearby, would be happy to join you on some lumpy rides.

Has anyone ever got up Succomb's Hill ? The sign at the bottom says it is 25% !

fuzzynavel

joosed wrote:

Smokin Joe wrote:

Ditchling Beacon is nothing special. It get's it's reputation because most of the riders on L2B are non cyclists who have to get off their BSOs and walk. I can't see any regular road cyclist having a problem on it.

The riders here attempting DB seem to be on the large side, no?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hygGesEHlm0

I've wanted to do the L2B for a few years now but never been able to quite get there. I know that gradient can be deceptive on video but it doesn't look that challenging going by the number of semi fit people that come flying past the camera bike at various points...The biggest challenge to get to the top seems to be in avoiding the knackered people littering the road!

PostieJohn

fuzzynavel wrote:

.The biggest challenge to get to the top seems to be in avoiding the knackered people littering the road!

I believe so. Wifey gets there a bit later than myself, and apparently the whole width of the road is littered with walkers.
My main enjoyment from Ditchling, the last time I rode up it, was a fella steaming past me on the approach. He was making so much noise huffing and puffing short breaths etc, I guess his thinking was if he could build up enough speed to get him up the climb!.
The funny think was he was all kitted out and on enough of a bike to know better.

I passed him on about the 2nd bend, .

fuzzynavel

PostieJohn wrote:

fuzzynavel wrote:

.The biggest challenge to get to the top seems to be in avoiding the knackered people littering the road!

My main enjoyment from Ditchling, the last time I rode up it, was a fella steaming past me on the approach.
The funny think was he was all kitted out and on enough of a bike to know better.

Lol...amateur!

No doubt one of these people who buy all the kit and think it will turn them into one of the mountain goat schleck brothers who do seem to be able to steam up hills!!!

bobtbuilder

I find Ditchling Beacon to be a tough climb as I always struggle with climbs which vary their gradient so much. DB goes steep, easier, steep, easier several times from top to bottom and I just can't handle climbs like that.

I am much better on climbs which maintain a steady gradient, even if they are steeper than DB. I find Kidds Hill (The Wall), Whitedowns, Toys Hill, Yorks Hill and even Cob Lane are much easier than DB due to their steady gradients.

PostieJohn

Now Bob, you are being a little silly there aren't you.

Cob Lane (I've trying to remember that name for days), easier than DB, I think not, you freak!.

As for The Wall, I thought that was another minor hill with way to big a reputation.

Heckler1974

PostieJohn wrote:

As for The Wall, I thought that was another minor hill with way to big a reputation.

+1 for the wall, nasty but steady, but Cob's Hill is probably one of the few hills that evoke the 'chew the handlebars', running out of gears, running out of speed horribleness (that like a lot of things in cycling are something to be endured in order to get the pay off of achievement in having conquered them).