Tubeless or conventional ??

RealMan

Thewaylander wrote:

Who cares as i get to take inner tubes and patches home, and then put them for recycling, why are you one of the evil little scrotes who is leaving them up the tree's round my local trails?

Sorry, forgot about all the inner tube and patch recycling plants in the world. Land fill.

supersonic wrote:

While you may be at a greater risk from pinch flats, there is a risk with tubeless and that is air burping out of the tyre on some hits with low pressure or even cornering.

For fat people who corner hard at 15 psi, that can be a problem, yes. For the rest of us, no. And the fatty with a tubed system would've pinch punctured ages ago.

Tubed tyres can roll off rims as well.

supersonic

I have burped them at 25psi and I am 13 stone.

Maybe I just ride a lot harder than you. *

*Silly line of arguing. Not good is it?

RealMan

What set up, what were you doing?

Thewaylander

LOL i do recycle most of tubes believe it or not.

I repair broken ones i bring home to go back out with so haven't bought many tubes over the years, and real trashed ones i use to make frame protectors and so on mate? why don't you use your left overs to decent effect? ah yeh still got folks to cover ya costs, wait till ya first job or a student and cahs is really tight, they have a millio and one uses mate

supersonic

Mavic Crossmax, Tioga Red Phoenix UST. Had landed a jump a bit sideways, tyre just rolled over and let out about 10psi. And these have stiffer sidewalls lol.

Would a tube have pinched? I dunno, maybe.

Like I say, pros and cons. For general XC for me they can have advantages if run at say 30psi or more. I like the simplicity of UST But when riding very hard at lower pressures over rough terrain then I feel that for some it may not work. Some tubeless set ups are impossible to inflate without a very powerful pump or compressor which is not good on the trail.

So it is back to set up, preferences and the conditions. If UST could be made as light as a standard set up then I would maybe use it more for some riding. The conversions and kits I don't like, and you have to be careful as not all tyres can be converted and some even degrade. But these are getting better.

I am loathed to carry a spare tube with a tubeless kit, and as you know, I don't carry one at all.

GHill

For the OP: If you're building up a new bike it's probably worth getting some tubeless ready rims (such as Stan's). You can easily run them either way and make up your own mind.

bails87

GHill wrote:

For the OP: If you're building up a new bike it's probably worth getting some tubeless ready rims (such as Stan's). You can easily run them either way and make up your own mind.

Very sensible. Starting from scratch I'd use tubeless rims and proper tubeless tyres. But it's not as "downside free" as someone is making out. It's expensive and if it goes wrong on the trail then you need a tube with you anyway. I found I got more pinch punctures tubeless than tubed :? The only way to fix these was to properly clean the area of the tyre where I was putting the patch, which I simply couldn't do on the trail. so I had to grudgingly (for cost and environmental reasons) tip away the sealant and fit a tube.

So, sealant inside tubes? Sure, there's a weight penalty compared to 'naked' tubes, but you can use superlight tubes and tyres, rather than a heavy UST tyre, so potentially offset the sealant weight against that. You don't have to worry about burping and there's no chance of having to use a compressor or even a track pump and soapy water to set it up. If there's a thorn puncture, it seals. It may even seal a pinch puncture. If not, you patch it and put the tube back in.

It's also a damn sight cheaper if you've already got a tubed setup!

I think it's an underrated idea

gonga

I ran nearly 9 months tubeless without any issues and begrudgingly had to use tubes while i was waiting for some sealant to be delivered.
First ride got 2 punctures :?

coincidence maybe,But I'm a believer!

Northwind

I had more punctures in my first month of tubeless than I did in the 6 months of tubes before. But that was still only one, and that was freakish so doesn't count.

RealMan

Thewaylander wrote:

Yeh about to say how good latex all over the natural trails sounds like a crap idea to me.

I know they have pro's but still.

I knew something was stupid about this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latex

Latex as found in nature is a milky sap-like fluid found in 10% of all flowering plants

Thewaylander

Yarp, indeed it is natural occuring in many ways. but do you think the stuff you put in your tyres is totally natural? that it doesn't have addatives to stop it setting in you tyres and so on?

T-shirts can be made of cotton, which is also natural do you think it's acceptable to dump used t-shirts in the woods?

RealMan

This is the most retarded argument ever.

Thewaylander

Yup i thought so but hey it's provided me with hours of fun on a totally subjective topic yet again

supersonic

You can get latex innertubes too ;-]

Crude oil is from natural sources and is bio degradeable. Oh, hang on...

Thewaylander

Simply don't dump crap on any trail no matter what you think

biff55

RealMan wrote:

This is the most retarded argument ever.

just because not everyone shares the same opinons as you ?
stop spitting your dummy out annoying little scrote.

nicklouse

dont like tubeless i like to change my tyres for the conditions. starts to get a bit expensive having all these wheels around with different tyres on them.

spongtastic

RealMan wrote:

This is the most retarded argument ever.

arguments cannot be retarded, only those who take part.

RealMan

spongtastic wrote:

arguments cannot be retarded, only those who take part.

So you think that the argument against tubeless on the basis that maybe once ever few years a few ounces of latex based sealant is spilt on to a trail, which could possibly have a slight effect on the environment, even though this is mostly based on speculation and probably isn't true, is valid?

And breathe.

biff55 wrote:

just because not everyone shares the same opinons as you ?
stop spitting your dummy out annoying little scrote.

Calm down sweetie.

nicklouse wrote:

dont like tubeless i like to change my tyres for the conditions. starts to get a bit expensive having all these wheels around with different tyres on them.

Get people who run tubes who still have different wheels for different tyres. And people earlier were saying its no more faff changing tyres when you've got sealant in them as well. Sure, its different, and the first one or two times may not be as smooth as usual, but I'm sure it wouldn't take long to get the switch over as quick as tubes.

supersonic

You have to accept that people don't ride the same way as you, the same places, the same bike and have differing opinions. It doesn't make them wrong.

As for the latex it was about discarding in in the event of a puncture and you putting a spare tube in. Or do you leave it in the tyre still?

Unbead tyre, let sealant pour out

RealMan

supersonic wrote:

You have to accept that people don't ride the same way as you, the same places, the same bike and have differing opinions. It doesn't make them wrong.

Don't get your point there, what are you referring to?

supersonic wrote:

As for the latex it was about discarding in in the event of a puncture and you putting a spare tube in. Or do you leave it in the tyre still?

Yes. Although with tubeless you don't really puncture, its more a case of side wall rips. Running it properly this may happen to you maybe once ever 2-3 years at a guess? Less if you run proper tyres, more if you run schwable or panaracers etc.

So being fairly generous, you may lose 1-2 ounces of sealant a year on average on to a trail. Arguing against tubeless because of its environmental effects, is just stupid. That amount isn't going to do anything.

How about when you wash all the oil and lube off your bike when you clean it? Do you do it in the bath tub, so you don't allow any of the stuff to go into the ground?

supersonic

It seems that in most discussions you have, if people do not do things your way you will be somewhat insulting towards them if they have reasons not to ie stoneage tyres, fat people who can't inflate their tyres and the endless arguing for you to try and prove a point.

Yes. Although with tubeless you don't really puncture, its more a case of side wall rips. Running it properly this may happen to you maybe once ever 2-3 years at a guess? Less if you run proper tyres, more if you run schwable or panaracers etc.

So why do you carry a tube then? I break wheels more frequently than that yet I don't carry spare wheels. But of course I understand why you do lol. I don't. Who is wrong? None of us, it is opinion.

It was you who brought up leaving things on the trail when you mentioned taking a spare tube home [you seem to have changed your comment now on pouring the sealant away] the fact is you should NOT put latex on the trails, simple as that. Maybe some riders do puncture more than that with tubeless. Maybe some with tubes never puncture or every 5 years and leave their tube on the trail after cutting the valve off. You are just looking at YOUR scenario again and completely ignoring everyone else's. These discussions are subjective.

FYI I do wash the bike in the bath.

biff55

RealMan wrote:

Calm down sweetie.

i'm very relaxed right now , thanks for your concern.

RealMan

supersonic wrote:

So why do you carry a tube then? I break wheels more frequently than that yet I don't carry spare wheels.

It was you who brought up leaving things on the trail when you mentioned taking a spare tube home [you seem to have changed your comment now on pouring the sealant away] the fact is you should NOT put latex on the trails, simple as that.

FYI I do wash the bike in the bath.

Probably because its easier to carry a spare tube, then a wheel. And because occasionally other people who are still in the stone age might need one. I've had two spare tubes at the bottom of my camelbak for around 2 years now, and they haven't come out once. Could be degrading in there for all I know.

I don't know how you get from carrying a spare tube to leaving things on the trail, you will have to explain that one for me.

And no, I don't think I've changed my comment. If I got a side wall rip, and the tyre doesn't seal, the latex goes on the trail or in a bush. Sue me.

What do you do with the dirty bath water? Unless you skim the oil off the top and reuse it, I'm sorry but you're probably doing more damage then my sealant is. Goes with riding in the rain as well. Ever used copper grease? Nasty stuff that is.

supersonic

You're in the same situation either way, just with tubeless you only have to carry a valve, not an entire inner tube, after you've fixed it.

You imply that everyone takes tubes home, while latex gets wasted. And you specifically said 'pour away'. Read what you write before you come back with sarcastic answers.

I have warned you many times for your tone, and have brought it up in this thread. Yet you STILL carry on. Well it is for the last time as you are now banned. If you want to carry on posting here, email an admin, apologise and for the love of god, grow up. Your attitude to other users is terrible and until it changes, find somewhere else to post.

I wouldn't go whinging to STW either as they have emailed the admin here asking to send you back.

biff55

detention for you realman.
1000 lines " i must not be a c0cK"