Tubeless or conventional ??

wavey1490

Ok am building a new HT xc bike in the new year, and am just wandering wether or not to go tubeless on this one. I have run for the past 15+ years now on a lightweight tyre and tube combo and have only suffered 4/5 punctures in that entire period. Thats racing xc and riding/training offroad too.

So is there a benefit to be gained if a roll on tubeless or just go with the same/similar set up to what I have always ridden ?

Also from what I remember in the early days of tubeless my mate on the trail with his cross max and michelin tyres having probems getting tyre off rim to sort it on a muddy ride, this is what put me off for years, is this still the case with them ?? As I would need a few different stes of tyres for different terrain conditions

thanks in advance for any help

RealMan

If you're talking about changing tyres for winter/summer etc, then go tubeless.

If you're talking about changing tyres for every ride or something like that, then consider going tubeless, but there's a tiny bit more faffing involved every time you change tyres.

Thewaylander

Also my main problem is how much it costs to sort a tubless kit out..

I love the idea, but im not spending a fortune to do it. my tubes will do lol

RealMan

Gorilla tubeless - all for the cost of some tape and some sealant.

Ghetto tubeless - all for the cost of 2 bmx inner tubes and some sealant.

Tubeless conversion - kits cost about £50?

Tubeless rims - all for the cost of some sealant usually.


Although if you also go for tubeless tyres, then you add the cost of two new tyres. If you're prepared to make your own sealant, take off the cost of that too.

Then take off the costs of years of inner tubes, puncture repair kits, tyre levers, etc. etc.

I think it works out cheaper.

wavey1490

RealMan wrote:

If you're talking about changing tyres for winter/summer etc, then go tubeless.

If you're talking about changing tyres for every ride or something like that, then consider going tubeless, but there's a tiny bit more faffing involved every time you change tyres.

yeah i'd be looking at tyres for different areas as some places have sand, some have dirt some require semi slicks, some combo as slick rear and grippy front and then obviously winter muddy conditions also, so would be numerous sets required

so is this gonna make my life hell with chaniging tyres and havin to do all the sealant each timne ?

Mccraque

not if your pouring skills are ok....just tip from one tyre to another. But ultimately if you are going to be changing tyres each week it may be a little bit of ballache. - more so from expense side if you keep adding new sealant.

That said, I can change a tubeless in about 1 minute compared to 5 for tyre + tube.

RealMan

wavey1490 wrote:

yeah i'd be looking at tyres for different areas as some places have sand, some have dirt some require semi slicks, some combo as slick rear and grippy front and then obviously winter muddy conditions also, so would be numerous sets required

Crazy talk if you ask me.

wavey1490 wrote:

so is this gonna make my life hell with chaniging tyres and havin to do all the sealant each timne ?

Take dust cap off. Deflate tyre. Unbead part of it. Either use a syringe or a cup to take sealant out and store it temporarily in cup. Take off tyre completely. Put new tyre 90% on. Put sealant from cup into new tyre. Top up if necessary. Put tyre fully on. Inflate. Put dust cap on.

Take off dust cap. Deflate tyre. Unbead tyre. Take off valve collar. Take inner tube out. Take tyre off. Put new tyre half on. Put inner tube in. Put valve collar on. Finish putting tyre on. Inflate. Put dust cap on.

Your choice.

wavey1490

RealMan wrote:

wavey1490 wrote:

yeah i'd be looking at tyres for different areas as some places have sand, some have dirt some require semi slicks, some combo as slick rear and grippy front and then obviously winter muddy conditions also, so would be numerous sets required

Crazy talk if you ask me.

well racing you sometimes need different set ups. whats the point of going to a hard packed dirt course and riding on knobblies, would be like riding on tarmac and loose traction

wavey1490 wrote:

so is this gonna make my life hell with chaniging tyres and havin to do all the sealant each timne ?

Take dust cap off. Deflate tyre. Unbead part of it. Either use a syringe or a cup to take sealant out and store it temporarily in cup. Take off tyre completely. Put new tyre 90% on. Put sealant from cup into new tyre. Top up if necessary. Put tyre fully on. Inflate. Put dust cap on.

Take off dust cap. Deflate tyre. Unbead tyre. Take off valve collar. Take inner tube out. Take tyre off. Put new tyre half on. Put inner tube in. Put valve collar on. Finish putting tyre on. Inflate. Put dust cap on.

Your choice.

well its a bit quicker than that as dunt run the collar or caps (presta valves), so just deflate tyre esily and quicly then rip of tyre with hands and tube still seated in tyre then put on and inflate

Think I'll stick with the conventional lookis like a lighter setup too, cheers for your help though fella

bails87

RealMan wrote:

Then take off the costs of years of inner tubes, puncture repair kits, tyre levers, etc. etc.

I think it works out cheaper.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. From recent (rage inducing) experiences I'd say to only use Maxxis tyres for the rubbery sidewalls, or proper UST. Which are normally more expensive than their standard equivalents. Then you've got the cost of replacing sealant when the puncture won't seal and it wees out all the sealant over you and the bike.

And then if that happens, or the tyre 'burps' or for whatever reason, you need to put a tube, so you have to chuck away the sealant where you are. So you'll have to spend more money replacing it when you get home.

Whereas a tube can be repaired unless it's actually exploded. What do patches cost? Very little, and you just rotate them. As soon as you get a puncture, swap the holed tube for a 'working' one. Then repair the punctured one later on and that's your spare for the next ride.

JamesBrckmn

sealant only costs £2 per tyre, tubes cost £3 each, and a set of 10 self adhesive puncture patches cost about £2, so whichever way you go, it's not too expensive, and burps aren't that common on tubeless tyres

bails87

JamesBrckmn wrote:

sealant only costs £2 per tyre, tubes cost £3 each, and a set of 10 self adhesive puncture patches cost about £2, so whichever way you go, it's not too expensive, and burps aren't that common on tubeless tyres

But I've only had one tubed puncture that couldn't be repaired, so that's one tube I've had to scrap. Whereas I've had several pinched tubeless tyres that wouldn't seal themselves. Meaning I had to put a patch (or 3) over them when I got home. I put a tenners worth of sealant into the last tyre I tried to get running tubeless and it just kept leaking and deflating.

If you buy proper tubeless rims and proper tubeless tyres then after that, the cost is probably pretty close. i.e. negligible. But then you're already way down over a normal setup.

njee20

Think I'll stick with the conventional lookis like a lighter setup too, cheers for your help though fella

Depends on tyre choice, if you use a standard tyre (Schwalbe work well) then you save c100g/wheel depending on the amount of sealant used.

I change my tyres all the time and have no problems. I have about 5 sets of tyres that will all go on with a track pump, so I have no problems changing tyres 10 minutes before a race in the pouring rain. It weighs less, you can run lower pressures, and you'll get even fewer punctures, irrespective of how many you got before!

For me it's the single biggest improvement you can make on a bike, I wouldn't go back to tubes.

RealMan

bails87 wrote:

If you buy proper tubeless rims and proper tubeless tyres then after that, the cost is probably pretty close. i.e. negligible. But then you're already way down over a normal setup.

Tubeless rims are pretty much the same price. And stans rims are the dogs bollocks, tubeless or not. Even if I was running tubes, I'd still go stans.

Almost all of specialized tyres are tubeless, and they're cheap as chips. And lots of conti and maxxis tubeless tyres are still cheaper then some of the non tubeless schwalbe rubbish.

JamesBrckmn wrote:

sealant only costs £2 per tyre, tubes cost £3 each, and a set of 10 self adhesive puncture patches cost about £2, so whichever way you go, it's not too expensive, and burps aren't that common on tubeless tyres

Rubbish. Tubes are £5.


So if you go with tubeless from the start, you won't spend any more on the wheels, you will save £10 on the tubes, spend £5 on the sealant. Get some normal tyres, or spesh USTs, and you won't spend any extra. So you're already £5 better off, and that's not including spare tubes, patches, tyre levers, etc. etc.

njee20 wrote:

For me it's the single biggest improvement you can make on a bike, I wouldn't go back to tubes.

+1. It would be like going back to solid tyres.

ride_whenever

Stans rims aren't ust are they, but the rim strip makes them effectively ust, is that right?

njee20

No, it makes them airtight, not UST, you don't get the 'profiled' rim seat that you do with UST. Stan's set ups are significantly lighter than UST, but can be harder to inflate, depends on your tyre choice. The bead also doesn't lock into place in quite the same way it does with a true UST tyre/rim combo.

Even if I was running tubes, I'd still go stans.

+1, great rims

Almost all of specialized tyres are tubeless

Even so, some of them can be a nightmare to inflate, very inconsistent.

RealMan

ride_whenever wrote:

Stans rims aren't ust are they, but the rim strip makes them effectively ust, is that right?

Not a rim strip, just a bit of tape. A bit like rim tape you use with normal rims, but sticky on one side. Makes them easier to build and true.

bails87

RealMan wrote:

bails87 wrote:

If you buy proper tubeless rims and proper tubeless tyres then after that, the cost is probably pretty close. i.e. negligible. But then you're already way down over a normal setup.

So if you go with tubeless from the start......
.

Yes, but lots of bikes come without tubeless wheels. If I was buying new wheels then I'd get tubeless ones and I'd run them tubeless. It's just that the converison of my current rims was fairly unreliable, especially with the Racing Ralphs. (well, just the one RR actually, the front was fine :?) And replacing my current decent wheels with equivalent tubeless ones would cost £250ish. Which is about a thousand patches

RealMan wrote:

njee20 wrote:

For me it's the single biggest improvement you can make on a bike, I wouldn't go back to tubes.

+1. It would be like going back to solid tyres.

Really?! I don't see how it's that much of a jump. Pinch punctures with tubes were never a problem for me. I had one. I've pinched the tyre whilst running tubless numerous times, and it never once sealed properly. The resistance to thorn punctures is convenient, but it's not as night and day as you make out. I found one thorn in my tyres after a whole winter (Octoberish-May) of riding. So that's one puncture prevented.

Tubes with a bit of tubeless sealant in them is what I'm sticking with, at least until I put the Maxxises back on. It's just easier, I never bought into the 'more supple' side of the argument, I was doing it purely for puncture prevention, and it was actually pretty poor at that IME.

Northwind

I love tubeless but tbh I could go back to my lightweight tubes without too much bother, I'd just sooner not. Tubeless on Stans with standard kendas = win.

ride_whenever wrote:

Stans rims aren't ust are they, but the rim strip makes them effectively ust, is that right?

UST is a very specific standard. Not neccesarily the best standard at that. But it's a patented system (even though the patent shouldn't have been granted) so other companies use their own alternatives.

RealMan wrote:

Rubbish. Tubes are £5.

Tesco!

njee20

I think the thing for me with tubeless is that there are no real negatives.

It weighs less, you can run lower pressures, grip more and you get fewer punctures. I never got many flats with tubes, but there really are no downsides to it IMO.

Northwind

njee20 wrote:

I think the thing for me with tubeless is that there are no real negatives.

It weighs less, you can run lower pressures, grip more and you get fewer punctures. I never got many flats with tubes, but there really are no downsides to it IMO.

As long as you ignore it being a wee bit more faffy to fit. I have a compressor myself but I've done a couple of tyres with track pumps and I'm really glad I don't have to.

RealMan

Northwind wrote:

As long as you ignore it being a wee bit more faffy to fit.

That's like saying, oh, I could live in a house, but I'd rather have mud and stick shelter as its easier to put up when it gets blown down by a breeze.

Northwind

RealMan wrote:

Northwind wrote:

As long as you ignore it being a wee bit more faffy to fit.

That's like saying, oh, I could live in a house, but I'd rather have mud and stick shelter as its easier to put up when it gets blown down by a breeze.

I would have to say that no, it is not

Thewaylander

I can see a big downside.

I have seen tyres get ripped on trails with a tubless you are ruined. But with an innertube you can sort the iner/replace then use the spare bit of tape we all carry(least i do) tape the tyre and hey presto you can pedal home.. proven fix.

I stay with the simple as possible as it's easier to fix on a trail and seen alot of dmg on trails in my time

supersonic

I am going back to tubes after trying tubeless. While both set ups have pros and cons, I think tubes work better for me.

Northwind

Thewaylander wrote:

I have seen tyres get ripped on trails with a tubless you are ruined. But with an innertube you can sort the iner/replace then use the spare bit of tape we all carry(least i do) tape the tyre and hey presto you can pedal home.. proven fix.

Most tubeless users carry a boot and tube anyway, so not a downside. Except that you might get covered in Tyre Spunk when you fit the inner tube.

RealMan

Thewaylander wrote:

I can see a big downside.

I have seen tyres get ripped on trails with a tubless you are ruined. But with an innertube you can sort the iner/replace then use the spare bit of tape we all carry(least i do) tape the tyre and hey presto you can pedal home.. proven fix.

Lots of people think this is a downside. Can't understand why.

Tubeless, tyre gets ripped enough so it wont seal. Unbead tyre, let sealant pour out, take out valve, fix tyre, pop tube in. Away you go.

Stone-age, tyre gets ripped similarly. Unbead tyre, take out tube, fix tyre, pop new tube in. Away you go.

You're in the same situation either way, just with tubeless you only have to carry a valve, not an entire inner tube, after you've fixed it.

supersonic

Tubeless is so good you have to take a new tube lol.

I just take a puncture repair kit.

You'd pour liquid latex sealant onto the trail?

Thewaylander

Yeh about to say how good latex all over the natural trails sounds like a crap idea to me.

I know they have pro's but still.

RealMan

supersonic wrote:

Tubeless is so good you have to take a new tube lol.

I just take a puncture repair kit.

You'd pour liquid latex sealant onto the trail?

So if you get a pinch flat or tear or puncture you can't patch, you walk home?


Now there's a reason to use tubes. If on the odd chance you get a big tear, you might spill a small amount of sealant on to a trail, which might just hurt the environment.

How long does it take an inner tube to degrade? Or patches?

You guys are grasping at straws now lol. You might as well say you should use tubes because your religion forbids tubeless.

supersonic

Not grasping at straws at all, don't start this silly line of arguing again. Valid points.

Pinch flats can still be repaired with patches in many cases. I take a bit of sheet/stript incase the tyres rip much like you do. I have NEVER had a punture I have not been able to fix, hell one of my tubes has 9 patches on it lol.

While you may be at a greater risk from pinch flats, there is a risk with tubeless and that is air burping out of the tyre on some hits with low pressure or even cornering.

As before, it is what suits you and your riding.

Thewaylander

RealMan wrote:

How long does it take an inner tube to degrade? Or patches?

You guys are grasping at straws now lol. You might as well say you should use tubes because your religion forbids tubeless.

Who cares as i get to take inner tubes and patches home, and then put them for recycling, why are you one of the evil little scrotes who is leaving them up the tree's round my local trails?