Walcott n bent

Cleat Eastwood

Just iin on sky Walcott n bent not going to SA. Poss leaves door open for wright philips.

Ben6899

If Wright Phillips can play for England, then so can I.

Bent should go, but I agree on the ommission of Walcott.

Stewie Griffin

Wright-Phillips is poor but as long as Heskey doesnt go.

José Luis Chilavert ; International Appearances 74, International Goals 8
Rene Higuita ; International Appearances 68, International Goals 8
Emile Heskey ; International Appearances 58, International Goals 7

Ben6899

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Wright-Phillips is poor but as long as Heskey doesnt go.

José Luis Chilavert ; International Appearances 74, International Goals 8
Rene Higuita ; International Appearances 68, International Goals 8
Emile Heskey ; International Appearances 58, International Goals 7

I agree.

And for the uninitiated on the forums: Chilavert and Higuita were goalkeepers (retired now, I think) and Heskey is a striker - a player paid to score goals.

Vino2007

Although all your players are overpaid donkeys, it's harsh to compare Heskey and Chilavert. Chilavert was a free kick specialist

Ben6899

Vino2007 wrote:

Although all your players are overpaid donkeys, it's harsh to compare Heskey and Chilavert. Chilavert was a free kick specialist

Who is this "your"?

I would still fancy a striker to score more goals than someone who's chances are restricted to quite prescribed set-piece situations.

snailracer

Ben6899 wrote:

Vino2007 wrote:

Although all your players are overpaid donkeys, it's harsh to compare Heskey and Chilavert. Chilavert was a free kick specialist

Who is this "your"?

I would still fancy a striker to score more goals than someone who's chances are restricted to quite prescribed set-piece situations.

Though the ratio varies from year to year, about 50% of goals are scored from set pieces.
I would have thought the goalkeepers mentioned would have scored more than a few from penalties, however.

jimmythecuckoo

Sad to say it but right decision not to take Theo.

Stewie Griffin

Ben6899 wrote:

Vino2007 wrote:

Although all your players are overpaid donkeys, it's harsh to compare Heskey and Chilavert. Chilavert was a free kick specialist

Who is this "your"?

I would still fancy a striker to score more goals than someone who's chances are restricted to quite prescribed set-piece situations.

Especially when they were stuck at the other end of the pitch for about 88 mins of every game. Any forward should have more goals tha nany goalkeeper.

Jimmy the cuckoo, Theo should have gone, Lennon will need someone to clean his boots

redddraggon

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Just iin on sky Walcott n bent not going to SA. Poss leaves door open for wright philips.

You say that like it's important.

EKIMIKE

redddraggon wrote:

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Just iin on sky Walcott n bent not going to SA. Poss leaves door open for wright philips.

You say that like it's important.

Well it was clearly important enough for you to comment on it

Anyway, to be fair Walcott hasn't been a regular for Arsenal all season and his form from the bench hasn't exactly been good. However, there is always that lingering thought: If he can have 1 game like he did against Croatia then it would make his selection worthwhile.

As for Heskey, there's nothing he can do that Bent can't do just as well. Fact is Bent is faster and actually scores.

The problem with the English football team is that the players don't play like they do in the Premier League. The tempo, the passion, the commitment, work rate - it's all missing. I think this is why Rooney often gets frustrated and angry, because he is one who carries these qualities into every game regardless of whether it's at club level or international.

RichN95.

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Wright-Phillips is poor but as long as Heskey doesnt go.

José Luis Chilavert ; International Appearances 74, International Goals 8
Rene Higuita ; International Appearances 68, International Goals 8
Emile Heskey ; International Appearances 58, International Goals 7

England competitive games since last World Cup

With Heskey: Played 9, Won 8, Lost 1, Goals For 29, Goals Against 5
Without Heskey: Played 12, Won 7, Draw 2, Lost 3, Goals For 26, Goals Against 8

So in summary, England play better with Heskey in the team

EKIMIKE

But who were the opposition in those games with/without Heskey?

Cleat Eastwood

EKIMIKE wrote:

The problem with the English football team is that the players don't play like they do in the Premier League. The tempo, the passion, the commitment, work rate - it's all missing. I think this is why Rooney often gets frustrated and angry, because he is one who carries these qualities into every game regardless of whether it's at club level or international.

Totally agree.

Even as a Liverpool fan I look at Gerrard in the england shirt and think...why bother Stevie....go home and get some rest you look knackered.

RichN95.

EKIMIKE wrote:

But who were the opposition in those games with/without Heskey?

More or less the same teams for each.

With: Andorra (2-0), Belarus (3-1), Croatia (4-1,5-1), Israel (3-0), Kazakhstan (5-1,4-0), Russia (3-0), Ukraine (0-1)

Without: Andorra (5-0,3-0,6-0), Belarus (3-0), Croatia (0-2,2-3), Estonia (3-0,3-0), Israel (0-0), Macedonia (1-0,0-0), Russia (1-2), Ukraine (2-1)

So against teams in the top 25 of the World Rankings

With Heskey: Played 4, Won 3 Lost 1 (Goal Difference +9)
Without Heskey: Played 4 Won 1 Lost 3 (Goal Difference -3)

EKIMIKE

Might be worth considering 7 out of Heskey's 9 games since 2006 WC have been under Capello.

Anyone want to argue that Heskey has more influence on how England play than Capello?

EKIMIKE

Fair game Rich. (I missed that the criteria was for competative games).

Anyway, i still think the fact that Heskey jas played more under Capello than Mclaren still have an over-riding influence on the stats.

RichN95.

EKIMIKE wrote:

Fair game Rich. (I missed that the criteria was for competative games).

Anyway, i still think the fact that Heskey jas played more under Capello than Mclaren still have an over-riding influence on the stats.

That's why Capello has qualified with ease and McLaren did not.

mroli

EKIMIKE wrote:

The problem with the English football team is that the players don't play like they do in the Premier League. The tempo, the passion, the commitment, work rate - it's all missing. I think this is why Rooney often gets frustrated and angry, because he is one who carries these qualities into every game regardless of whether it's at club level or international.

Like when he stamps on Ricardo Carvalho and gets sent off.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rooney is a fantastic player, but no one player is going to win you the world cup and England just don't have a strong enough "spine". Rubbish keepers, dodgy centre backs, midfield that doesn't really gel, right back who can't defend, one striker and no solution to the left mid problem...

I predict quarters....

Ben6899

There were other variables in those matches as well, don't forget. As well as Heskey being present, which other players featured in which matches and in which positions?

Too many variables to simply state that "England win when Heskey plays". Now if he bagged a couple every time he played, that would be a different matter altogether. Heskey does what Bent does. But not as well. And he doesn't score as many goals.

Fair play to the lad though; I wish it was me sitting on the bench for a month and him sitting here.

wheezee

EKIMIKE wrote:

The problem with the English football team is that the players don't play like they do in the Premier League.

That's because the English game is based on strength, speed and violence. You aren't allowed to play like that in international tournaments.

bobtbuilder

RichN95 wrote:

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Wright-Phillips is poor but as long as Heskey doesnt go.

José Luis Chilavert ; International Appearances 74, International Goals 8
Rene Higuita ; International Appearances 68, International Goals 8
Emile Heskey ; International Appearances 58, International Goals 7

England competitive games since last World Cup

With Heskey: Played 9, Won 8, Lost 1, Goals For 29, Goals Against 5
Without Heskey: Played 12, Won 7, Draw 2, Lost 3, Goals For 26, Goals Against 8

So in summary, England play better with Heskey in the team

He can't even get in the Villa team most weeks!

RichN95.

bobtbuilder wrote:

He can't even get in the Villa team most weeks!

That's because they've got John Carew, who does the same type of job (holding up the ball, making space, winning freekicks etc), but with better finishing.

If Carew was English I'd pick him ahead of Heskey. But he's not. The only other English players who do what Heskey does are Carlton Cole and Kevin Davies.

EKIMIKE

wheezee wrote:

That's because the English game is based on strength, speed and violence. You aren't allowed to play like that in international tournaments.

Well firstly, violence? John Terry and Steven Gerrard, yes. The rest seem relatively non-violent to me.

And secondly,strength and speed play a huge part in International football. Brazil are a brilliant example. Difference between Brazil and England is that Maicon plays for Brazil like he does for Inter. Gerrard and Lampard play nothing like they do for their clubs. (<<< Obviously this is on a very simple level)

EKIMIKE

Anyone else think that for the big games after the group stages (if they get that far!) Capello has to go 4-5-1?

If he does, i'd love to see Lennon and J Cole used as almost support strikers to Rooney instead of Gerrard 'cos let's face it, Gerrard is useless in that position. I'm thinking more 4-3-3 than 4-5-1 'cos it's painful to see players like Lennon and Cole walk the touchline for 90 minutes whilst Gerrard runs into dead ends all game instead of passing it. (although Gerrards version of a weighted througball is more akin to a piledriver)

beverick

Firstly, congratulations to Heskey for getting in the squad. Just how someone with so little goalscoring talent can get into so many squads beats me - so that's the wool pulled over another manager's eyes.

You can argue all day that players around him play better when he's in the team but, personally, I just don't understand how he does it. I saw the squad and thought very much the same as I remember thinking when I saw him an Leicester "how are you getting in this team" and thinking of Liverpool "how come you can part with so much cash for someone with so little ability in front of goal.

Regarding formation, to be honest, we've just looked at the squad and we can't work out what formation he'll play.

The best we came up with was a sort of 4-1-3-1-1 with either King or Barry as the first '1' depending on who we were playing (Barry for the weaker sides and King for the better ones) with either Gerrard or Heskey (god help us) sitting in behind Rooney. But anything's possible. 5-4-1 (with Ashley Cole and Johnson pushing into midfield); 4-4-2 with any combination of the four, sorry three, strikers in the squad playing up front, 4-3-3 with Lennon or SR-P playing as forward/winger; or some other derrivative.

The main problem I see with any xxx-1 set up is that Rooney, as good as he is, doesn't respond well when he's on his own up front for England as Owen (especially) and Lineker did. I think he tends to get isolated at international level. Whether this is because England don't break as fast as Man Utd and he needs supporting players or not I don't know. What I do know is that the net result of being isolated is that he starts getting petulant and loses control.

Another problem is that the midfield looks to similar. SR-P and Lenon are the 'up and at 'em' players - but neither have the delivery (ie "final ball") needed at this level (perhaps where Walcott was better); Gerrard, Barry and Milner are the power-players whilst Carrick, Cole and Lampard are holding players. And why we need all eight I don't know. Is he expecting that many injuries?

Personally, I expected, and would have liked him, to take Walcott and Bent leaving Heskey and either Lenon or more likely SR-P at home.

You can say I'm wrong when they're parading the trophy down the Mall but, personally, i think I'm more likely to get a payout from my tenner on the USA......

Bob

guilliano

To me it looks like Capello bottled it. I think Adam Johnson should have gone as a left sided winger, but he wasn't given a proper chance.

Out of that squad I reckon the starting 11 will be:

GK: James
LB: Cole
RB: Johnson
CB: Terry
CB: Ferdinand
RM: Milner
LM: J Cole
DM: Barry
CM: Lampard
CM: Gerrard
CF: Rooney

Gerrard, Lampard and Cole will be told to break forward to support Rooney, with Barry holding back and Milner dropping in to cover when both Lampard and Gerrard go forward.

brin

The problem with the English football team is that the players don't play like they do in the Premier League.

thats because they play in multi - national teams

knedlicky

Ben6899 wrote:

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Wright-Phillips is poor but as long as Heskey doesnt go.
José Luis Chilavert ; International Appearances 74, International Goals 8
Rene Higuita ; International Appearances 68, International Goals 8
Emile Heskey ; International Appearances 58, International Goals 7

I agree. And for the uninitiated on the forums: Chilavert and Higuita were goalkeepers (retired now, I think) and Heskey is a striker - a player paid to score goals.

Goalie Butt in the German World Cup squad is a goalgetter. Before he joined Bayern Munich last summer, he’d scored 26 league goals for his previous clubs Hamburg and Leverkusen, in season 1999/2000 even being joint top scorer for Hamburg. His overall ratio is 1 goal per 13.5 matches but in a more prolific season 1 goal per 3.75 matches.

Last season he only scored once for Bayern, in a Champions League match against Juventus Turin, but this in itself made a record of sorts. During his days with Hamburg and Leverkusen, he also scored for each club in the Champions League, and on both those occasions also against Juventus Turin. So he has 3 Champions League goals to his credit, all with different clubs but all against the same opposition.

Karl2010

I think Bent should go instead of Heskey.
Cant belive Haskey has even got a chance. All he can do is hold the ball up. Doesnt score or make goals. Oh well..

I dont think Walcott has been good enough recently to deserve a place.

beverick

guilliano wrote:

To me it looks like Capello bottled it. I think Adam Johnson should have gone as a left sided winger, but he wasn't given a proper chance.

Out of that squad I reckon the starting 11 will be:

GK: James
LB: Cole
RB: Johnson
CB: Terry
CB: Ferdinand
RM: Milner
LM: J Cole
DM: Barry
CM: Lampard
CM: Gerrard
CF: Rooney

Gerrard, Lampard and Cole will be told to break forward to support Rooney, with Barry holding back and Milner dropping in to cover when both Lampard and Gerrard go forward.

Yup, that's where we got to with the option of playing either Carragher (RB or CB)and/or 'deadly Ledley' (CB or DM) instead of Barry where a more defensive line-up was needed. This would also have the benefit of covering for the (many!) times during the matches when both full-backs to awol in the opponent's half.

Depending on Ferdinand's fitness I'd be inclined to play Carragher alongside Johnson. He's spent the last year covering for Johnson's repeated mid-game absences (when he drifts into the opponents half), his poor positional awareness (including shepherding players from the edge of the pitch towards the goal!) and his inability to tackle. It's no co-incidence that Liverpool's defensive record was better last season when Johnson was laid-up! (nb, at club level I'm with a growing number of supporters wishing that Benitez would play Carragher (or at right back and push Johnson into right midfield where he could do more damage to the opponents defence rather than his own!)

Bob