Doesn't anyone think it's sad....

2

Comments

  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    iainf72 wrote:
    He may owe the fashion police an apology

    + lots (and + 1 generally).
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    RichN95 wrote:
    I'm not the one being irrational one here. BW had twittered for a week prior to the Landis relevelation, not commenting on such things as Ben Swift's wins in Picardie. He hasn't done so for a week since. The rational explanation is that he's just not going on twitter at the moment for some reason (better things to do, phone broken, forgot password).
    No, the rational explanation is that is not 'twittering' because of the Landis revelations which implicate one of his own team mates.
    RichN95 wrote:
    The problem is you've spent hours, maybe days in the last few years posting (almost exclusively) against Armstrong, mostly the same things over and over. It's your obsession. This last week must have been like all your birthdays at once. But not everyone is obsessed and so aren't coming to your party. They've got their own lives to be getting on with.
    Ha good one! Especially given that a single thread on the Landis case on here has now attracted a third more posts than I have posted in a year! :lol:
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    iainf72 wrote:
    Wiggins owes the public nothing. He may owe the fashion police an apology but thinking he has to comment on some allegations is insanity.
    Fair enough, I was obviously misled when he said things such as:

    "it's my role as a role-model to expose it and not pretend it isn't happening,"

    "It's about time someone had some balls and told it how it was. There are enough of us who think the way I do."

    "I think they need to take a long look at who they invite to the race over the next few years. If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is involved in any way in a drugs ring or doping or working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that - they shouldn't even be given a racing licence until they can prove that they are, through stringent testing procedures, that they are not involved in any wrong doing - until then the ASO shouldn't have them in the Tour de France and the UCI should not have them in the sport."

    "The riders have got to take a stand too as a group. If it almost means that we're sitting on the start line at the next race in a month's time saying, 'Look, we're not riding with this guy' and put him at the back of the field or not start the race if there's any suspicion on this guy - if that's what it's gonna take then that's what it's gonna take."
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    BikingBernie wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    I'm not the one being irrational one here. BW had twittered for a week prior to the Landis relevelation, not commenting on such things as Ben Swift's wins in Picardie. He hasn't done so for a week since. The rational explanation is that he's just not going on twitter at the moment for some reason (better things to do, phone broken, forgot password).
    No, the rational explanation is that is not 'twittering' because of the Landis revelations which implicate one of his own team mates.

    And the week before the revelations? No twittering then either. No even to say 'Well done Ben Swift'. Was that because of Landis?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    BB you post a lot of stuff that is interesting and worthwhile but this obsession with Wiggo's twitter is getting a bit much. The bloke has a job to do, a team mate is named in the current hoo-ha, it is just an accusation and not an officially sanctioned positive.

    I'm sure if this all came to something and LA was 'done' for 'stuff' that Wiggo would be tweeting like a erm, bird.

    What could he possibly tweet currently? Something like "oooh that's interesting". Give the bloke a break and concentrate on the evidence in the main show.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:
    Give the bloke a break and concentrate on the evidence in the main show.
    Fair comment, but as I said earlier Wiggins used to be a bit of a 'hero' of mine for his willingness to speak out and I had expected more from him when this all blew up. I obviously misjudged / expected too much from him. My mistake.

    Whatever, it will be interesting to hear what he does say once he has 'found his password'.

    "And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident... collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.

    "You have gone almost all the way yourself. Life is a continuing process, a flow, not a succession of acts and events at all. It has flowed to a new level, carrying you with it, without any effort on your part. On this new level you live, you have been living more comfortably every day, with new morals, new principles. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago...

    "Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done... You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.

    http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Fair comment, but as I said earlier Wiggins used to be a bit of a 'hero' of mine for his willingness to speak out and I had expected more from him when this all blew up. I obviously misjudged / expected too much from him. My mistake.

    Didn't Wiggins slip in your estimation last year when he rode high in the GC at the Tour?

    His comments before have been on real doping cases, haven't they? Not just allegations.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • rockmount
    rockmount Posts: 761
    I'm 50-50 on Brad, a place on the podium last year would have made me quite a bit of cash, I'd love to see him do well, but am tempted to think last year was such a huge effort [losing so much weight etc], and now he's got the superstar contract... I'd hate to think he's lost some motivation. As far as this story goes, I think he probably doesn't give a flying f*ck what BB thinks, and is better off staying well clear ..
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    iainf72 wrote:
    Didn't Wiggins slip in your estimation last year when he rode high in the GC at the Tour? His comments before have been on real doping cases, haven't they? Not just allegations.
    All of the quotations I have cited earlier from Wiggins are very general in nature. Wiggins also talked of the need for riders to take a stand if there was 'any' suspicion, not confirmed doping positives but 'any' suspicion, about a rider or team. I would think that given the Landis revelations there is a hell of a lot of suspicion about a significant number of riders at the moment.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    BikingBernie wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Didn't Wiggins slip in your estimation last year when he rode high in the GC at the Tour? His comments before have been on real doping cases, haven't they? Not just allegations.
    All of the quotations I have cited earlier from Wiggins are very general in nature. Wiggins also talked of the need for riders to take a stand if there was 'any' suspicion, not confirmed doping positives but 'any' suspicion, about a rider or team. I would think that given the Landis revelations there is a hell of a lot of suspicion about a significant number of riders at the moment.

    Maybe riding in a team like Garmin, with riders who have dodgy pasts but were looking to move forward and help clean up the sport, has changed his perspective on punishing past transgressions. Imagine riding with someone like Zabriskie, becoming friends, and then suddenly seeing that he's being accused of doping when you know (or believe) he's clean now.

    Even if his principles haven't changed one bit, that would be one hell of a dilemma.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Why the obsession with Wiggins' Twitter in particular? Why not Danny Pate, or Manuel Quinziato, or Ted King, or... you get the picture. There are lots of cyclists on Twitter. They rarely say anything of substance.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    afx237vi wrote:
    Why the obsession with Wiggins' Twitter in particular? Why not Danny Pate, or Manuel Quinziato, or Ted King, or... you get the picture. There are lots of cyclists on Twitter. They rarely say anything of substance.
    Because in the past Wiggins has said things of apparent substance, like the following:

    "it's my role as a role-model to expose it and not pretend it isn't happening,"

    "It's about time someone had some balls and told it how it was. There are enough of us who think the way I do."

    "I think they need to take a long look at who they invite to the race over the next few years. If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is involved in any way in a drugs ring or doping or working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that - they shouldn't even be given a racing licence until they can prove that they are, through stringent testing procedures, that they are not involved in any wrong doing - until then the ASO shouldn't have them in the Tour de France and the UCI should not have them in the sport."

    "The riders have got to take a stand too as a group. If it almost means that we're sitting on the start line at the next race in a month's time saying, 'Look, we're not riding with this guy' and put him at the back of the field or not start the race if there's any suspicion on this guy - if that's what it's gonna take then that's what it's gonna take."
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    He couldn't tweet the last two as they are way over the 140 character limit.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    andyp wrote:
    He couldn't tweet the last two as they are way over the 140 character limit.
    http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... script.asp

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... feb05news2
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    BikingBernie wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Why the obsession with Wiggins' Twitter in particular? Why not Danny Pate, or Manuel Quinziato, or Ted King, or... you get the picture. There are lots of cyclists on Twitter. They rarely say anything of substance.
    Because in the past Wiggins has said things of apparent substance, like the following:

    <snip>

    I know. You've posted those quotes numerous times. He may have said things in the past - but that doesn't make him the automatic go-to man for quotes about doping. Nor is he the only man in the peloton who has been outspoken about doping in the past. Why aren't you waiting for a David Millar quote, or a Philippe Gilbert quote?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Regardless of whether you agree with what BB says, you have to admire his ability to pull on numerous, substantional, proper sources/quotes for most of his points.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    afx237vi wrote:
    Why aren't you waiting for a David Millar quote, or a Philippe Gilbert quote?
    As I have said a number of times, I am. In fact I would like to see any rider 'break ranks' and make their feelings clear. I even started a thread where people could post the reactions of riders. So far there has been little to report.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    I think it is more sad that Wiggins is 37 mins down on GC, or 48mins if you discount 'that' stage.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    eh wrote:
    Wiggins is best to keep his trap shut as for all his anti-doping talk he welcomed LA back with open arms, and didn't comment on Rob Hayles' dodgy HCT result. The guy is no better or worse than most of the rest.

    Hmm, he was very pally pally with Armstrong just as Cavendish is/was (another who has said nothing although he was quick to smash Ricco with everything he had and generally has a huge mouth and talks of setting good examples to the younger generation)
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Richrd2205
    Richrd2205 Posts: 1,267
    BikingBernie wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Didn't Wiggins slip in your estimation last year when he rode high in the GC at the Tour? His comments before have been on real doping cases, haven't they? Not just allegations.
    All of the quotations I have cited earlier from Wiggins are very general in nature. Wiggins also talked of the need for riders to take a stand if there was 'any' suspicion, not confirmed doping positives but 'any' suspicion, about a rider or team. I would think that given the Landis revelations there is a hell of a lot of suspicion about a significant number of riders at the moment.
    OK, since you've derailed another thread, would you like to post a single incidence of Brad quoting unprompted on a specific unsubstantiated allegation?
    I personally see no dissonance between the quotes you refer to above & his silence just now. The quote talks about there being no room in cycling for folk with even a hint of suspicion hanging over them, not that he will make public statement thereon. He has never put himself up as judge & jury.
    If you can find a quote as above, I'll happily stand corrected, apologise & back your claims. If you can't, do you want to STFU & move on to something where there might actually be some evidence?
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    BikingBernie wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    He couldn't tweet the last two as they are way over the 140 character limit.
    http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... script.asp

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... feb05news2

    WHOOSH2.gif
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Richrd2205 wrote:
    The quote talks about there being no room in cycling for folk with even a hint of suspicion hanging over them, not that he will make public statement thereon. He has never put himself up as judge & jury. If you can find a quote as above, I'll happily stand corrected, apologise & back your claims.
    If you read the links you will find that he actually said where there is 'any' suspicion about a rider, the other riders should refuse to start a race where they are on the start line, a rather stronger action that making a comment. Not a rider who is a convicted doper but one who there is 'any' suspicion about. Is that not acting as judge and jury?
  • stokepa31
    stokepa31 Posts: 560
    I find it incredulous that some people expect a guy to make a statement with any authority on the allegations being made by Landis.

    Wiggo shoots from the hip on ocassions but he's not daft enough to put his bits on the block based on hearsay. you only need to see the way eurosport are taking an extremely cagey standpoint on this to know that any comment either way could have huge implications for individuals, teams and the sport as a whole.

    no doubt there will be investigations etc but what they need is evidence that will stand up in court. FLs words and or training diaries will not provide this without corroboration so it will go nowhere.

    Do I think dopers are prevalent in pro cycling - yes absolutely judging by the number caught each year. It makes me really sad that one by one the people i have admired during grand tours fall over and get caught.

    LA has provided some of the most breathtaking moments in the spots history and seems to be a force for good in the world. I watched a young boy being interviewed in the tour of cali and he was in floods of tears having met the man. Until he is convicted of cheating I treat him as I would anyone else - an innocent man
    Burning Fat Not Rubber

    Scott CR1
    Genesis IO ID
    Moda Canon
  • stokepa31
    stokepa31 Posts: 560
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Richrd2205 wrote:
    The quote talks about there being no room in cycling for folk with even a hint of suspicion hanging over them, not that he will make public statement thereon. He has never put himself up as judge & jury. If you can find a quote as above, I'll happily stand corrected, apologise & back your claims.
    If you read the links you will find that he actually said where there is 'any' suspicion about a rider, the other riders should refuse to start a race where they are on the start line, a rather stronger action that making a comment. Not a rider who is a convicted doper but one who there is 'any' suspicion about. Is that not acting as judge and jury?

    well i guess it hinges on the basis of what constitutes suspision. if a self confessed cheat with nothing to lose and plenty to gain accused me of something. i'd like to think people would give me the benefit
    Burning Fat Not Rubber

    Scott CR1
    Genesis IO ID
    Moda Canon
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    stokepa31 wrote:
    I find it incredulous that some people expect a guy to make a statement with any authority on the allegations being made by Landis.
    I am not expecting people like Wiggins to speak with 'authority' on the revelations made by Landis, just give his general opinion. Millar has, as pathetic as his comments are..

    http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15175682?
  • stokepa31
    stokepa31 Posts: 560
    Well with team sky so close to British Cycling I think you'll be waiting a while.
    Burning Fat Not Rubber

    Scott CR1
    Genesis IO ID
    Moda Canon
  • beatsystem
    beatsystem Posts: 118
    "I think it's sadder that there are still people out there who believe the myth of Armstrong."

    I have heard nothing to make me not believe it thank you!
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    Really? Do you live in a cave?
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,655
    beatsystem wrote:
    "I think it's sadder that there are still people out there who believe the myth of Armstrong."

    I have heard nothing to make me not believe it thank you!

    Wow. Are you not even slightly suspicious? Really?

    Can I interest you in some magic beans, very reasonably priced?
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    beatsystem wrote:
    "I think it's sadder that there are still people out there who believe the myth of Armstrong."

    I have heard nothing to make me not believe it thank you!
    You had better get reading. :wink:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/16226502/Lanc ... ng-History

    http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12703967

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