Who's doing the Marmotte,

airwise

The GF Marco Pantani was the best event I've done to date. Superbly organised on closed roads, it's worth it just to descend off the Mortirolo without fear of oncoming traffic.

As a challenge, I would say it's a smidge harder than the Marmotte as the French event does not have the Mortirolo to contend with.

So go for it. Big bag of goodies including Cyclaman jersey, great hospitality and superb scenery. Tie it in with the Sportful and you'll have an amazing week. Just don't bring too many mates ;-)

richa

I believe the neutralised descent is due to the poor road surface.

I struggle to criticise an organiser making changes on grounds of safety.

Kléber

Good luck to everyone tomorrow

blorg

Turns out they were lying about the descent being neutralised, it was just a ruse to get people to take it easy. The time on the cert includes the descent. Saying it was did result in some pretty slow/poor descending, people sitting on the brakes and popping their tyres, going so slowly around the corners that it was difficult not to go into the back of them. I like descending whether it is timed or not so went as fast as I could. The road surface on the Glandon is fine, I think the issue is more that there are some bits at the top where if you went off the road you would have quite a fall. If you want to see a bad road surface try the descent from the Sarenne which I did last Sunday as part of La Vaujanay; I am still mentally scarred from that one.

To be honest although the roads are not closed there is very little traffic on the route excepting the Lauteret-Bourg road and I don't think it presents a big problem.

It's my second time doing the event; this year I also did the Vaujanay and the Prix des Rousses which I would also recommend; much smaller fields if that is what you are looking for and makes a good week of cycling rather than just the one day. I didn't have the heart to do the Grimpe up the Alpe this morning. I think it is well organised especially considering the numbers; I've always picked up my number/timing tag quickly, the marshalling is excellent and there are plenty of water stops. I didn't use the food stops; the one issue I would have there is that it would be nice if there was something you could just take with you (bars) but I knew there wasn't so I carried all my own food from the start (7 bars.)

The atmosphere is great especially on the Alpe at the end where there are so many locals out cheering on the cyclists, throwing water over them etc.

Well done to anyone who completed, especially if it is your first; it is a tough day on the bike.

Some pics from the day:

bs147

Have to agree about the Col de Sarenne - the whole section from Alpe D'Huez to halfway down the other side of the Sarenne was like rough cyclocross!

blorg

bs147 wrote:

Have to agree about the Col de Sarenne - the whole section from Alpe D'Huez to halfway down the other side of the Sarenne was like rough cyclocross!

It has massively deteriorated over the last few years; I first cycled it two years ago and while the storm drains were of course there the rest of the road was reasonably normal. Not high-quality smooth French tarmac like you find on the other climbs but similar to what I am used to at home.

airwise

The Sarenne suffered apparently with the melting snow this year. I rode it a few weeks ago when the section you refer to was officially closed. Rocks and boulders all over the surface and many more coming down as workers tried to remove the looser ones above the road. Still a great climb and, as a mountain biker at heart, more entertaining having to pick a line all the time

Mattburton

did 9:05 this year which is over 2 hours quicker than last year. Took it real easy on the decent of Glandon to find out it was a lie!! Wind coming of Galabier was horrid and did anyone else see the guy being attended to near then end of Galibier decent? my dad said he was being put in a body bag. Hope he was ok

genki

I think when the results come out they'll have subtracted the time taken for the descent from the Glandon. That's what they'd done for the provisional results posted at the finish I saw.

FWIW I think it's still a fantastic day out, even with the neutralised descent. After all, for most people the main objective is either to get round or to beat a previous time. The idea that people would hang around waiting for a bunch is laughable. I mean how on earth would you know what bunch was going to work hard and what bunch was going to dawdle? From what I saw everyone around me descended just as normal and were giving it some welly on the straighter bits. The roads really aren't that busy. I've done closed road events in Italy and I found the standard of descending far worse and have seen many more people being scraped off the walls there. For me, descending something like the Galibier when you know you could meet a car on the corner makes you concentrate that much harder.

I think what you get in the Marmotte, which maybe you don't get in anything other than maybe the etape, is a reputation for the event which attracts people who want to say that they've done it. And if you go to half-way up ADH, at 7pm, and see the determination of the straggers who'v been on the go for 12hrs and still have another hours climbing ahead of them, I think you get the real essence of what completing the event means. No evidence of testosterone-fuelled wannabes - just riders who are going to have an awsome amount of pride in what they've achieved. Who says the standard of riding has to be high?

airwise

genki wrote:

I
I think what you get in the Marmotte, which maybe you don't get in anything other than maybe the etape, is a reputation for the event which attracts people who want to say that they've done it.

Ah. So willy waving is the essence of the day then? The ability to boast to others who may have heard of the event. That strikes me as sad but may well explain the huge number of Brits.

Rutlandblue

genki wrote:

I
FWIW I think it's still a fantastic day out, even with the neutralised descent. After all, for most people the main objective is either to get round or to beat a previous time.
No evidence of testosterone-fuelled wannabes - just riders who are going to have an awsome amount of pride in what they've achieved. Who says the standard of riding has to be high?

+1.
Was the hardest but most enjoyable day on a bike i've had. Congrats to all who finished.

sampras38

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Three cat 1 climbs for me today - saisies (from both sides) and roselend. Felt much better than on my last visit. I'd like to think my fitness has improved but I think I was just going slower!

The last 8-9k of the roselend are just stunning - beautiful lake below you and crazy rock formations above. Amazing.

Col de joux plane tomorrow - think that's HC, sounds like a beast anyway - and will probably throw in avoriaz or some other cat 1, maybe ramaz.

Then tues is definitely rest!

Did Joux Plane and Avoriaz back to back last year and they are not nice. Roughly around 2 hours of climbing, plus we did another 3 on flat roads straight after and I was well and truly cooked. I think the JP took me around 58 minutes.

Last month I was in Bourg for the first time and did Alp Duez 3 times, and bits of the Marmotte route, incl Glandon and Croix De Fer. The scenery just blew me away.

genki

airwise wrote:

genki wrote:

I
I think what you get in the Marmotte, which maybe you don't get in anything other than maybe the etape, is a reputation for the event which attracts people who want to say that they've done it.

Ah. So willy waving is the essence of the day then? The ability to boast to others who may have heard of the event. That strikes me as sad but may well explain the huge number of Brits.

You're right. Everyone who wants to have a crack at a well-known challenge is by definition a willy-waver. Perhaps you'd like to tell marathon runners, LEJOG cyclists, munro-baggers etc this. Or maybe it hasn't occured to you that some people do these things for their own satisfaction. If you want to boast about doing something, the Marmotte's hardly a good place to start. How many people outside of a sub-group of cyclists would have a clue what you were talking about?

Mattburton

genki wrote:

If you go to half-way up ADH, at 7pm, and see the determination of the straggers who'v been on the go for 12hrs and still have another hours climbing ahead of them, I think you get the real essence of what completing the event means. No evidence of testosterone-fuelled wannabes - just riders who are going to have an awsome amount of pride in what they've achieved. Who says the standard of riding has to be high?

Well said. Its an event where there is a great variety of personal goals. Last year i entered just to finish and this year i went for a time. People who say the riding standard is poor should perhaps be good enough to do a real road race or go for their own personal goals without moaning about riders with a different objective. It is what makes an event like this so special. You can go for the win, go for a good time, aim to finish or aim to do as much as you can.

I had a great day again this year getting my goal of 9 hours (even if 5 mins short). Wonderful scenery and atmosphere to add to the good riding conditions. Chapau to the people on the side of the road cheering and pouring water over riders. The guy who put his watering system over the road on alpe d'huez is a hero.

Also a quick word to the people who moan about there being to many british competitors. There was a lot of us but i would say we were of the better standard both athletically and our etiquette. Those bloody belgians are the ones. Saw 2 getting towed up Galiber by a car.

Hope everyone one enjoyed it and got what they aimed for.

blorg

+1 genki well said.

I was having a kebab and a beer quite late in the evening when there was a blaze of sirens outside; it was the last rider coming through. Everyone came out and cheered him on. It is a great event whatever "standard" rider you are and the community support is just fantastic.

le_patron

Regarding the neutralised descent, there wasn't much difference in the speed of the riders I was with, we all rolled over the top of the Glandon and rode down pretty fast. Same as normal really. Actually I probably concentrate more when it's not neutralised, drifted off a bit, anyway, this seems to be a precedent. No point in anyone dying in a sportive. I heard there was a crash on the Galibier late on, road closed etc.

Timing was a bit weird though, my certificate time didn't include the descent, it was 25 mins shorter than my result on the 'net, so not sure what is what there. Comparing with previous years is a little tricky now.

Anyway, loved it. I was in an awesome paceline off the Lauteret, organised, shared and thus shifting, extremely enjoyable.

greeny12

Phew - that was a hell of a thing.

Not sure I can say I actually enjoyed it...but I think to get all the way round that course even in a slow time is something of an achievement, especially as I managed to handicap myself with an ill-timed bout of insomnia that resulted in less than an hour's sleep the night before.

Thanks to everyone for all the tips and advice that appeared on here in the run-up, especially about the bike bags-on-trains section! And yaa-boo to the nay-sayers moaning about those with the temerity to descend slowly and carefully in order to stay within the limits of their bike-handling capabilities - I saw enough ambulances carting off the brave ones....

As someone who climbs like Eros Poli and descends like Frank Schleck I think I might find something more "rolling" for my next cycling challenge!

ketsbaia

airwise wrote:

genki wrote:

I
I think what you get in the Marmotte, which maybe you don't get in anything other than maybe the etape, is a reputation for the event which attracts people who want to say that they've done it.

Ah. So willy waving is the essence of the day then? The ability to boast to others who may have heard of the event. That strikes me as sad but may well explain the huge number of Brits.

Hold up a minute. Aren't you willy-waving right now by boasting of your descending brilliance. Get over yourself, mate. Seriously.

Great event, that. I went uphill faster than some and slower than some. Same applies to the downhills. Enjoyed the lot and might do it again next year to post a better time.

If you want closed roads and expert descenders, start amateur racing or something and leave the mass-participation events to those of us who are clearly inferior in the willy-waving stakes. :roll:

Steve GT

I did it for the first time and it was the best and toughest sporting event I have ever done. I set myself two goals at the beginning of the year:
1. Lose 2 stone in weight and
2. Do the Marmotte in less that 9:30.
I achieved both and I am proud of myself for attaining both these goals, as I finished with a time of 9:15 - gold for my age group. If thats 'Willy Waving' then so be it. :roll:

blorg

The problem with ridiculously slow descending is that it is dangerous. If you sit on the brakes on a long descent you will build up heat on your rims, to the point that your tyres explode. This is not a theoretical, it actually happens and I have seen it happen in front of me both last year and this year on the Glandon descent. Thankfully both guys controlled their bikes and didn't crash.

The correct way to take a corner descending is not to sit on the brakes but to brake hard and late in a straight line and then release the brake entirely and lean for the actual corner. Braking while actually going around the corner is also dangerous, especially with the front brake, and can result in a crash. Ideally descending you don't actually use your brakes that much at all.

This just takes practice and you get better at it the more descending you do. I think it is a skill worth working on; descending is a lot of fun and there is a great satisfaction in getting a corner or hairpin just right without scrubbing too much speed. Always have a quick glance behind you before cornering in case someone else is coming up.

ketsbaia

blorg wrote:

This just takes practice and you get better at it the more descending you do. I think it is a skill worth working on; descending is a lot of fun and there is a great satisfaction in getting a corner or hairpin just right without scrubbing too much speed. Always have a quick glance behind you before cornering in case someone else is coming up.

Especially when there are lots of people around. What better way to practice group descending than actually doing it?

Agreed, too much braking can cause blow-outs and this happened to quite a few people. But they'll be the ones going slowly, remember, so it's less likely they're gonna go careering over the edge. Unlike someone overcooking it and running out of both talent and road.

Not everyone has masses of confidence or experience descending, but they do get better over time, as I imagine you have. And frankly, if people are that good at descending, surely they're able to round slower descenders on the straights? I know that's what I did. You lose maybe a second or so as you wait for the opportunity to pass. Big deal.

FWIW, I had a number of issues with people ascending too slowly and boxing me in, often forcing me to go across to the other side of the road to pass them. Not particularly safe either. Perhaps we should discourage people who can't climb very well from taking part in these sportives too?

Or just leave it to the pros, as we're all clearly way too inexperienced to grace such lofty stages.

blorg

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining and it was not a major problem to go around them. Minor niggle in a great day. I have indeed got a lot better at descending with practice. It is just a tip on how to descend properly; some people were going absurdly slow.

As for ascending, etiquette would be to stick to the right and pass on the left. I got a gold time in the top 1,000 but I had a sub-300 number so started right at the front and was passed a lot on the climbs. Especially the Alpe! By that stage I was cooked. I stuck to the right so didn't get in anyone's way. Climbing is so much slower that passing is substantially easier anyway; the relatively few people I passed going up without much difficulty.

Anyone know how many people started? The results only go up to 5100 or so finishers.

jessop3

Not sure how many started.

I know that I finished, despite not being listed in the results. My transponder was evidently a dud. After registration I did make sure to wave the transponder (and my willy) in front of their computer, and it was apparently working fine (the transponer, that is).

As it happened, I had a disastrous ride, suffering from lack of fitness and a brand new acute knee pain from the Telegraphe onwards. It took me nearly 12 hours to finish which does not compare well with my 7'45'' from last year.

So I'm not too fussed about my time not registering. The only thing I worry about is next year's entry, where I fear my DNS will put me well down the start list, or off it entirely. My dad DNF last year and got a much worse number than me, despite us entering at the same time.

Anyone know any details of how they allocate things?

Next year will hopefully be my 5th Marmotte and I don't want to miss out because of a dicky transponder. (And woeful fitness.) But I suppose anything could happen with the entry.. a lottery perhaps.

Kabo

7500 started!

Kabo

somebody knows something more about the crash?
I saw it... didn't look to good...

Serious crash!

Mattburton

if its the one at the bottom of the galibier decent then it didnt look too good when i went past. There was no urgency and it appeared that the blanket was all the way over his face but i didnt get a good look

blorg

You can get a low number (sub 400, front pen) by entering the Grande Trophee; I really enjoyed La Vaujanay and La Prix des Rousses before the main event, it makes a good week of it and there is more than enough recovery time. I knocked 1h17m off last year's time and I think the low number was a big help there.

@jessop- you finished. Last year a friend of mine finished outside the cut off but I certainly ceonsider he finished. The piece of paper doesn't really matter. Well done.

cjcp

mattieoo@hotmail.com wrote:

if its the one at the bottom of the galibier decent then it didnt look too good when i went past. There was no urgency and it appeared that the blanket was all the way over his face but i didnt get a good look

I think I went past this, too.

@sampras - Jon Ginge and I are heading to Joux Plane and the Cololmbiere in September. Looking forward to it. And couldn't agree more about the scenery.

What a great experience. Was a mess at the end, but a great event.

Abdoujaparov

Anything I write now can't do justice to this crazy and amazing event. It was my first attempt and after blowing up on the Alpe I promised it would be my last, but now with the sense of accomplishment sinking in, I'm not so sure.

I made the school boy error of going too fast on the Telegraphe (along with about a third of the field I reckon), was pretty ok on the Galibier, but probably lost 20 mins on the Alpe. Not a spectacular blow up perhaps, but my body was screaming at me to stop from the very first ramp. No idea how I managed to drag myself up there without resting (stopped for about 15 seonds to loosen my shoes after they started to give me searing pains through the outside of both feet, but that was it). I've never dug that deep before and I hope I never have to again.

It's pretty strange really that I and so many others just kept going through the pain, but in the heat of the moment (and on that bloody sauna of an Alpe), there's just no alternative.

Call it determined, call it mental, there's something about an event and a sport that makes people test themselves to these limits.

At the end I was briefly all over the shop, then I was hit by this overwhelming sense of relief that it was over and then I got pretty emotional. My girlfriend did the Mi Marmotte (the one that starts in Valloire and does the Galibier and the Alpe) and had to get the shuttle bus back to Valloire after the race to pick up the car. She texted me to say how she'd got on and that she'd actually cried while climbing the Alpe. Replying to her texts I was pretty much welling up as the combination of physical and mental exhaustion overcame me.

As experiences go and for someone pretty new to cycling, the whole event was about as deep as it gets. Fair play to everyone who did it.

tanaysmith

I went past the crash at the end of the day on the Galibier descent (the one that closed the road for cars) and the person didn't look good but was certainly alive.

They had bandages around their chin and head and were being held still waiting for a neck brace. Someone said that they hit a campervan but I can't confirm that.

But it sounds like a different one to the other crash as it was very late in the day and also on the top third of the Galibier descent, way above Lautauret.

I had a great experience but didn't manage it up ADH. Only been riding a year and this was just a bit more than I could handle, though I was proud to have completed the three climbs and 100 miles. I just couldn't handle another 2-3 hours of climbing up the Alpe.