British Airways ... well actually the Union of Communists

4kicks

BA is losing so much money, and if I understand the airline industry correctly it doesnt own the aircraft (think they are all on capital leases), hence the only significant assets the company owns are the slots and erm, goodwill.

So why not just declare bankruptcy, throw out ALL of the unionised staff and any pension liabilities and just start again. It worked fine for Swiss.

fast as fupp

its wonderful to hear all the ex-pats and foreigners putting british workers in their place
PIP! PIP!

clanton

British workers - surely thats an oxymoron?

verylonglegs

The UK car industry anyone? It's all very well striking but whilst there is someone else providing the same product/service to a better standard and more cost effectively then in the long run there is only one outcome.

fast as fupp

clanton wrote:

British workers - surely thats an oxymoron?

so you are either foreign or on the dole?

ilm_zero7

fast as fupp wrote:

its wonderful to hear all the ex-pats and foreigners putting british workers in their place
PIP! PIP!

too right - to all those left behind by BA - try a real airline ...... Etihad!

softlad

Felt so Good wrote:

try a real airline ...... Etihad!

they're an airline..?? seriously - I thought they made TVs...

DubaiNeil

Nope - they're part of the Abu Dhabi Marketing Department - so no need to be price/cost competitive - or indeed make any meaningful revenue. As long as they fly to the "flag ship" routes (i.e. anywhere with a UAE embassy/consulate) they be all good...

No different to Emirates, just without the rampant sport sponsorship (so far but playing catch-up!)

Works for me though No strikes, price "competition" (sort of...) and a varied schedule between the two "national" carriers - both flying virtually brand new aircraft.

(Un)fortunately almost no-one I know here would actually elect to choose BA for a UAE - UK flight unless forced to...

Neil

fast as fupp

i dont suppose trade unions are allowed in dubai?

Cleat Eastwood

Although your anger is understandable here be a few facts for you to mull over while you wait in the airport attended by able, hard working and diligent British employees. Counter intuitively, given the credit crunch, the amount of days lost through industrial action is decreasing in this country, which hardlt points to a nation in hold to communist tyrrany

BA run the airline as a means of generating income solely for their shareholders, you, to them are simply a nameless, faceless commodity. To the communist staff you seem to deplore you are a name, a face and I would suggest the very reason they joined the service in the first place, to offer assistance and to be of service.

Further more Article 11 of the human rights act states that:

"Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests."

The union members voted for strike action depsite the courts attempts to negate the ballots themsleves.


From this, Article 11, as upheld by the european courts, actually did support the right of collective bargaining, which is all the unions are seeking. The case law, consequently,was extended to cover industrial action, a right which the unions are quite properly exercising.

Rather than being communists, the unions, in representign their members are acting not only within the law but well within their legally defined rights.

Perhaps you need to reconsider your selfish, self centred attitude, for it is that attitude, as evidenced in Willie Walsh that has lead the unions into what their own Unite leader calls unnecessary action.

Toodle pip and up the workers.

"Let no one build walls to divide us,
Walls of hatred nor walls of stone.
Come greet the dawn and stand beside us,
We'll live together or we'll die alone.
In our world poisoned by exploitation,
Those who have taken, now they must give!
And end the vanity of nations,
We've but one Earth on which to live.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal,
Unites the human race."

DubaiNeil

fast as fupp wrote:

its wonderful to hear all the ex-pats and foreigners putting british workers in their place
PIP! PIP!

Absolutely, why do you think I left and have no intention of ever returning?

In the BA case - surely if you wish to have good terms and conditions, best you earn them rather than perceiving that they are a right in perpetuity?

Obviously no change in the competitive landscape will allow the "representatives" of the "workers" to alter their "God" given right to hugely costly benefits for the "workers" - much better to drive the company to the wall and blame the greedy shareholders and management :roll:

Frank the tank

I find some of the comments on here incredible.

Does TTTT realise how difficult it is for workers these days to persue any kind of industrial action. I can assure him no one goes on strike light heartedly and the it's a last resort. It usually takes months to end up at the point BA staff now find themselves.

At the moment my union are in negociations with management trying to secure our future. IF we end up on strike it will be because we as a workforce feel we've been f**ked by the company and it would be a last resort. The time scale would be three months between any management announcment any any industrial action which may/maynot be taken.

Hardly something done at the drop of a hat and a show of hands in the works yard.

DubaiNeil

fast as fupp wrote:

i dont suppose trade unions are allowed in dubai?

Correct, we are paid for what we do, with clear T&C's in the employment contract.

If you don't like the offer you don't sign.

If the employer doesn't adhere to their elements of the T&C's then you take said employer to the Labour Council for adjudication.

Simples, non?

Mad Roadie

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Although your anger is understandable here be a few facts for you to mull over while you wait in the airport attended by able, hard working and diligent British employees. Counter intuitively, given the credit crunch, the amount of days lost through industrial action is decreasing in this country, which hardlt points to a nation in hold to communist tyrrany

BA run the airline as a means of generating income solely for their shareholders, you, to them are simply a nameless, faceless commodity. To the communist staff you seem to deplore you are a name, a face and I would suggest the very reason they joined the service in the first place, to offer assistance and to be of service.

Further more Article 11 of the human rights act states that:

"Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests."

The union members voted for strike action depsite the courts attempts to negate the ballots themsleves.


From this, Article 11, as upheld by the european courts, actually did support the right of collective bargaining, which is all the unions are seeking. The case law, consequently,was extended to cover industrial action, a right which the unions are quite properly exercising.

Rather than being communists, the unions, in representign their members are acting not only within the law but well within their legally defined rights.

Perhaps you need to reconsider your selfish, self centred attitude, for it is that attitude, as evidenced in Willie Walsh that has lead the unions into what their own Unite leader calls unnecessary action.

Toodle pip and up the workers.

"Let no one build walls to divide us,
Walls of hatred nor walls of stone.
Come greet the dawn and stand beside us,
We'll live together or we'll die alone.
In our world poisoned by exploitation,
Those who have taken, now they must give!
And end the vanity of nations,
We've but one Earth on which to live.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal,
Unites the human race."

what utter garbage - caught in a previous age! no wonder the country has gone to the dogs and pays stupid amounts out to sponging people looking for an excuse not to work

DubaiNeil

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

BA run the airline as a means of generating income solely for their shareholders

Congratulations, you just described the whole purpose of British Airways.

Deliver a service to customers that gives customers what they want, at a price that is competitive, with a quality of service that is comparable to the rest of the industry, retain a trained & competent workforce and deliver those services at a cost that enables the investors to make a fair return on their investment

Nothing wrong with that I feel - but I may be in a minority, being employed to deliver a service to customers that generates a profit for my employer so enabling them to pay both my salary and a dividend to the shareholders - of which I am one....

Seanos

DubaiNeil wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

i dont suppose trade unions are allowed in dubai?

Correct, we are paid for what we do, with clear T&C's in the employment contract.

If you don't like the offer you don't sign.

If the employer doesn't adhere to their elements of the T&C's then you take said employer to the Labour Council for adjudication.

Simples, non?

Not that simple for everyone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Dubai

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2006/uae1106/

Cleat Eastwood

Ha ha running a business for their shareholders has nothign to do with giving the customers what they want. That attitude only leads to the view that customers are faceless, nameless commodities. Would you honestly use a service that advertised itself by saying, you mean nothing to us, you are just dollars in the bank, so try and argue with us we are always right. Course not. Its the curse of capitalism that leads to the commodification of basic human values.

Cleat Eastwood

By sponging and looking for an excuse not to work I suppose you mean the royal family and their hangers on. 500,000 to meet prince andrew anybody?. Thing is old chap the law which protects the right of workers to strike and defend their conditions of employment applies even to the most ignorant like yourself.

I believe the job seekers allowance can be as low as 50 pound. Hardly sponging, try leaving your imperialist tower and see what the real world is like. Toodle pip.

Cleat Eastwood

By sponging and looking for an excuse not to work I suppose you mean the royal family and their hangers on. 500,000 to meet prince andrew anybody?. Thing is old chap the law which protects the right of workers to strike and defend their conditions of employment applies even to the most ignorant like yourself. It strange that you see workers rights as belonging to a different age, perhaps 1930's would suit you sir?

I believe the job seekers allowance can be as low as 50 pound. Hardly sponging, try leaving your imperialist tower and see what the real world is like. Toodle pip. I'm off to watch the working class sport of football.

guilliano

The right to strike DOESN'T apply to even the lowest paid worker. There is no union representing the rights of retail workers, who are amongst the lowest paid and by far the most numerous in the UK. They just have to suck up whatever conditions employers put on them and suffer it or look for another low paid retail job with similar conditions and pay in an ever increasingly competitive market where (some) customers believe that they have the right to treat the worker as sub-human simply because they are handing over £3 of their hard earned for some vegetables.

Frank the tank

Seanos wrote:

DubaiNeil wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

i dont suppose trade unions are allowed in dubai?

Correct, we are paid for what we do, with clear T&C's in the employment contract.

If you don't like the offer you don't sign.

If the employer doesn't adhere to their elements of the T&C's then you take said employer to the Labour Council for adjudication.

Simples, non?

Not that simple for everyone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Dubai

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2006/uae1106/

Do away with TU's and we the working masses (well, what's left of us) will also enjoy the benfits of UAE workers rights and benefits.

stigofthedump

A whole series of top comments by Cleat Eastwood.

Also did the Union not offer to call off this weeks strike for the return of travel rights. The removal of which appears to be a sanction for standing up for your legal rights.

So it seems that the workers not only have the law on their side, but also on basic cost analysis. Maybe a few thousand pounds for the privalidge of getting to the head of the queue for standby flights against £50million of losses due to the strike.

Pip pip.

Frank the tank

guilliano wrote:

The right to strike DOESN'T apply to even the lowest paid worker. There is no union representing the rights of retail workers, who are amongst the lowest paid and by far the most numerous in the UK. They just have to suck up whatever conditions employers put on them and suffer it or look for another low paid retail job with similar conditions and pay in an ever increasingly competitive market where (some) customers believe that they have the right to treat the worker as sub-human simply because they are handing over £3 of their hard earned for some vegetables.

USDAW, do they not represent retail workers?

gabriel959

I think the communist bit is a bit out of order and comes from your ignorance of what it really means more than anything. A bit like the americans rejecting the NHS because its supposed to be a socialist idea.

I also don't know the facts but making this kind of noise is the only way they can get heard. To be honest from the outside it sounds like bang out of order but you should be a bit more careful about what you say.

Just my 2p

Frank the tank

stigofthedump wrote:

A whole series of top comments by Cleat Eastwood.

Also did the Union not offer to call off this weeks strike for the return of travel rights. The removal of which appears to be a sanction for standing up for your legal rights.

So it seems that the workers not only have the law on their side, but also on basic cost analysis. Maybe a few thousand pounds for the privalidge of getting to the head of the queue for standby flights against £50million of losses due to the strike.

Pip pip.

I understand that to be the case.

Also strikers have been put on some kind of "black list" I believe.

stigofthedump

guilliano
There is a union for shopworkers and anyone with any sense would be a member ASAP.

Sadly attitudes as displayed by some of the 'Im alright jack' brigade on this very forum has lead to the end of collective bargaining and the erosion of basic rights, often, as you point out, from the very poorest paid in the workforce.

Mad Roadie

I'd say stuff BA, but then theres hardly a need to when they are stuffing themselves!

DubaiNeil

Seanos wrote:

DubaiNeil wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

i dont suppose trade unions are allowed in dubai?

Correct, we are paid for what we do, with clear T&C's in the employment contract.

If you don't like the offer you don't sign.

If the employer doesn't adhere to their elements of the T&C's then you take said employer to the Labour Council for adjudication.

Simples, non?

Not that simple for everyone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Dubai

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2006/uae1106/

Shock, horror, Dubai isn't perfect - well fancy that....

Strangely not reported on that Wiki page is that the workers were paid out, and repatriated at the end of their contract, but that doesn't make such good reading now does it?

I do, however, take 10 years experience of living here over a Wikipedia article and an NGO piece on the worst instances that they can find...

Yes, there is mis-treatment of some individuals employed.

Is this systemic? I don't know.

Have I run a survey of the "250,000" workers stated in the Wiki article, no I haven't. Are there considerably more than 250,000 construction workers in the emirate of Dubai - absolutely.

Do they come of their own free will? Absolutely.

Do the vast majority come to Dubai for a better quality of life for them and their family than they will experience at home? Absolutely.

Am I one of them? Absolutely.

Is this anything to do with the BA strike and TTTT getting what he as a customer paid for? Absolutely not...

Mad Roadie

Frank the tank wrote:

stigofthedump wrote:

A whole series of top comments by Cleat Eastwood.

Also did the Union not offer to call off this weeks strike for the return of travel rights. The removal of which appears to be a sanction for standing up for your legal rights.

So it seems that the workers not only have the law on their side, but also on basic cost analysis. Maybe a few thousand pounds for the privalidge of getting to the head of the queue for standby flights against £50million of losses due to the strike.

Pip pip.

I understand that to be the case.

Also strikers have been put on some kind of "black list" I believe.

well the strikers would certainly be on my blacklist, thats for sure - yet another example (like the Royal mail) of union leaders putting their heads in the sand and refusing to change to marketplace - the longer they do that the stronger the alternatives become

alfablue

DubaiNeil wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

i dont suppose trade unions are allowed in dubai?

Correct, we are paid for what we do, with clear T&C's in the employment contract.

If you don't like the offer you don't sign.

If the employer doesn't adhere to their elements of the T&C's then you take said employer to the Labour Council for adjudication.

Simples, non?

Well the issues relate to unilateral changes to T&C's for the workers without their consent. They liked the T&C's, they signed, now the goalposts are moving. The unions did offer £60 million in pay cuts, not good enough apparently.