Accident advice please - London Taxi - cyclist doored

MJLowry

Advice please fellow cyclists.

Yesterday 08:45 I was knocked off my Brompton by a door opening onto me from a London Black Cab. I ride a Brompton with flashing front halogen light, high vis jacket and helmet. Cab was at London Wall outside Deutche Bank, stationary in a line of cabs waiting for lights to change. Cab was approx 4 feet out from curb, I was level with back of cab and proceeding between cab and curb, probably 10 mph when rear offside door was opened onto me. Passenger was looking forward. Knocked to ground with severe injuries, face and back Attended to by ambulance and police in attendance. I have a number of independent witnesses and the police have provided me with relevant crime numbers etc. Unfortunately CCTV does not show accident as lorry passing camera at time. I am awaiting a letter to state whether they will pursue action.

From my perspective I question a number of points. Is there a duty of the taxi driver to stop passengers from leaving his taxi , i.e. should the door be locked. If they are not, is the passenger of taxi responsible for the accident? Obviously I will be pursuing action as I am now left with a 2 inch cut to my face and broken ribs. Any advice would be welcome.

CiB

D lock the culprit seems the best start point.

This sounds like a case that requires solid legal advice, not us lot on here. Get to it asap.

Other advice that rings a bell is to log absolutely everything that's damaged, every scrap of communication between all parties, and to establish quite quickly how many witnesses you can rely on.

Clever Pun

sorry to hear that, I take it the bike is ok?

No idea if the cabby is responsible for his passengers. I'd be blaming the door opener personally. also as you're painfully aware riding in the door zones of cars is hazardous

Greg T

MJLowry wrote:

Advice please fellow cyclists.

Cab was approx 4 feet out from curb, I was level with back of cab and proceeding between cab and curb, probably 10 mph when rear offside door was opened onto me. .

Undertaking a stationary black cab is a bad place to be.

My advice is don't.

the_hundredth_idiot

Not sure if this helps enormously, but paragraph 239 of the Highway code gives quite explicit advice for the driver (and a handy little cartoon) but is less clear about obligations for passengers.

daviesee

Greg T wrote:

MJLowry wrote:

Advice please fellow cyclists.

Cab was approx 4 feet out from curb, I was level with back of cab and proceeding between cab and curb, probably 10 mph when rear offside door was opened onto me. .

Undertaking a stationary black cab is a bad place to be.

My advice is don't.

The story is a bit contradictory there but I don't know the road.
The curb is (usually) on the inside but the offside door is on the outside.

the_hundredth_idiot

Hmm, good point Greg. Proceeding between cab and curb when the offside door was opened onto the OP. How does that work?

lost_in_thought

Now now greggles, it sounds (to me) very much like the cab was just in a queue for the lights. You wouldn't just stop filtering up a queue because you saw a black cab, would you?

Anyway, OP, get in touch with the CTC, talk to their legal team, you have to join but they'll help you retrospectively and it's worth it! Talk to the police, ask them who was responsible, tell them you will be pressing charges, get contact details of witnesses. Presumably you've got an incident number?

And keep a log of all your injuries, diary, photos, etc. It's amazing what you'll forget, especially as personal injury claims can run on a lot. Also get your bike checked out.

Greg T

Filtering on the inside is dangerous. People open doors on the nearside without looking all the time.

We all do it - but we do it at risk..

_Brun_

It's 'kerb' FFS. Stop making me angry :x

Commiserations on the injuries, doesn't sound very pleasant at all.

lost_in_thought

Greg T wrote:

Filtering on the inside is dangerous. People open doors on the nearside without looking all the time.

We all do it - but we do it at risk..

True, it's a good time to have the bikini state cranked up to black special, but I wouldn't say it's enough to put the OP at fault in any way.

People should look! I know they don't, though. Bah, people eh? :roll: :P

kelsen

Sounds like a portion of blame lies with all parties involved including the cab driver. Did he have his hazards or left signal on when stopped?

I've noticed that bus drivers usually try to stop as near to the kerb as possible when setting down passengers, I presume one of the reason is to prevent accidents like this happening. If the OP felt he was able to filter past on the left then a fair amount of room must have been available between the cab and the kerb. Would it not be reasonable to assume the driver has a degree of responsibilty in deciding where and when his passenger can get out safely?

Headhuunter

_Brun_ wrote:

It's 'kerb' FFS. Stop making me angry :x

Commiserations on the injuries, doesn't sound very pleasant at all.

No it's not! Kerb is US English, curb is UK. At least that's what I always thought....

Greg T

lost_in_thought wrote:

but I wouldn't say it's enough to put the OP at fault in any way.

I wasn't there so don't "know".

If I'm filtering on the inside of a line of traffic and someone opens a door on me from a black cab two people are at fault.

Me
Them

If I get doored on the inside then I'm partly to blame - yes.

You can't trust people to look after you, you have to look after yourself.

meanredspider

_Brun_ wrote:

It's 'kerb' FFS. Stop making me angry :x

.

Curb your aggression. You're choosing to be angry - no-one's "making" you.

jonginge

Headhuunter wrote:

_Brun_ wrote:

It's 'kerb' FFS. Stop making me angry :x

Commiserations on the injuries, doesn't sound very pleasant at all.

No it's not! Kerb is US English, curb is UK. At least that's what I always thought....

Ahem: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/diction ... ish/curb_3

i will curb your ignorance

Zachariah

lost_in_thought wrote:

True, it's a good time to have the bikini state cranked up to black special, but I wouldn't say it's enough to put the OP at fault in any way.

You or a family member aren't in the military, are you? Not many civvies know the level names to use in daily talk.

(I'm not, I only know them due to a disasterous spell in the territorials)

Aidy

JonGinge wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

_Brun_ wrote:

It's 'kerb' FFS. Stop making me angry :x

Commiserations on the injuries, doesn't sound very pleasant at all.

No it's not! Kerb is US English, curb is UK. At least that's what I always thought....

Ahem: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/diction ... ish/curb_3

i will curb your ignorance

Given American and English; If one's going to have two different words which sound the same to mean different things, which is it likely to be?

Clever Pun

kelsen wrote:

Sounds like a portion of blame lies with all parties involved including the cab driver. Did he have his hazards or left signal on when stopped?

I've noticed that bus drivers usually try to stop as near to the kerb as possible when setting down passengers, I presume one of the reason is to prevent accidents like this happening. If the OP felt he was able to filter past on the left then a fair amount of room must have been available between the cab and the kerb. Would it not be reasonable to assume the driver has a degree of responsibilty in deciding where and when his passenger can get out safely?

with regards to pulling in, I'd suspect the passenger had enough of waiting and said I'll get out here as they were in a queue...

lost_in_thought

Clever Pun wrote:

kelsen wrote:

Sounds like a portion of blame lies with all parties involved including the cab driver. Did he have his hazards or left signal on when stopped?

I've noticed that bus drivers usually try to stop as near to the kerb as possible when setting down passengers, I presume one of the reason is to prevent accidents like this happening. If the OP felt he was able to filter past on the left then a fair amount of room must have been available between the cab and the kerb. Would it not be reasonable to assume the driver has a degree of responsibilty in deciding where and when his passenger can get out safely?

with regards to pulling in, I'd suspect the passenger had enough of waiting and said I'll get out here as they were in a queue...

Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking.

Headhuunter

JonGinge wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

_Brun_ wrote:

It's 'kerb' FFS. Stop making me angry :x

Commiserations on the injuries, doesn't sound very pleasant at all.

No it's not! Kerb is US English, curb is UK. At least that's what I always thought....

Ahem: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/diction ... ish/curb_3

i will curb your ignorance

OMG, how embarrassing! And I pride myself on my anal observance of British English... I had them mixed up. I must be getting old... The mind is going.

davmaggs

Whilst the pain is high now and there's a really obvious motivation to punish someone, a lot of people that go through the legal avenue end up spending months and months on correspondance rather than moving on with their lives. The amount of money simply wouldn't cover your time even at minimum wage. It should be noted (and I accept it) that people don't want to hear this and still embark on the legal action.

If you are able to work and the bills for repairs weren't too high then as much as I hate to say it as I would be raging, you will probably save yourself a lot of mental pain (and lost time, which costs money) by chalking this up to being a nasty accident.

cee

only a couple of things from me...

firstly...bad luck..get better...

secondly...black cabs passenger doors are locked whilst the vehicle is in motion, or when the cabbie has his foot on the brake, so the cabbie must have effectively let the passenger out. they may have some requirement to check mirrors before they do so.

again, not sure on how that affects liabilty, as ianal.

greg66_tri_v2.0

cee wrote:

secondly...black cabs passenger doors are locked whilst the vehicle is in motion, or when the cabbie has his foot on the brake, so the cabbie must have effectively let the passenger out. they may have some requirement to check mirrors before they do so.

again, not sure on how that affects liabilty, as ianal.

In which case, sequence must be
- sit in queue
- passenger say to cabbie "I'll get out here"
- cabbie puts cab into neutral and removes foot from brake to unlock doors

Now I'd've thought that the cabbie ought to have checked his mirrors before removing his foot from the brake. You can be pretty sure that had he pulled over to the n/side kerb and the passenger wanted to get out on the o/side, the cabbie would have, if only to protect his own door.

Rich158

davmaggs wrote:

Whilst the pain is high now and there's a really obvious motivation to punish someone, a lot of people that go through the legal avenue end up spending months and months on correspondance rather than moving on with their lives. The amount of money simply wouldn't cover your time even at minimum wage. It should be noted (and I accept it) that people don't want to hear this and still embark on the legal action.

If you are able to work and the bills for repairs weren't too high then as much as I hate to say it as I would be raging, you will probably save yourself a lot of mental pain (and lost time, which costs money) by chalking this up to being a nasty accident.

I don't agree davmaggs, having been the victim of an accident myself I can testify being angry is a natural reaction, and having a course of action helps channel that anger. Ok you can spend a vast amount of time on correspondance etc, time that you will never get back or get recompense for. I spent a lot of time going over all the possible accident scenarios wondering whether a portion of blame could be attached to me or the way I was cycling. My solicitor was very helpful, and knowing someone else was on my side actively helped me move on and put the whole thing behind me.

Headhuunter

Rich158 wrote:

davmaggs wrote:

Whilst the pain is high now and there's a really obvious motivation to punish someone, a lot of people that go through the legal avenue end up spending months and months on correspondance rather than moving on with their lives. The amount of money simply wouldn't cover your time even at minimum wage. It should be noted (and I accept it) that people don't want to hear this and still embark on the legal action.

If you are able to work and the bills for repairs weren't too high then as much as I hate to say it as I would be raging, you will probably save yourself a lot of mental pain (and lost time, which costs money) by chalking this up to being a nasty accident.

I don't agree davmaggs, having been the victim of an accident myself I can testify being angry is a natural reaction, and having a course of action helps channel that anger. Ok you can spend a vast amount of time on correspondance etc, time that you will never get back or get recompense for. I spent a lot of time going over all the possible accident scenarios wondering whether a portion of blame could be attached to me or the way I was cycling. My solicitor was very helpful, and knowing someone else was on my side actively helped me move on and put the whole thing behind me.

I was in an accident in Nov 09 and whilst full compensation has yet to be agreed, I've already had £600+ in interim payments and I've done very little. Simply kept a pile of receipts, had the bike checked and written off and been for a medical check up. Hasn't taken much effort at all really so far...

Greggyr

I would estimate that at least 5 seconds elapse between a passenger saying they'll get out of the taxi, to when the door actually opens. A cyclist doing 10mph would cover some distance in that time, so the driver may not see them, even when checking their mirrors.

W1

In answer to the question, get proper legal advice. But there is a useful case - Edelman v Harcott

http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/vie ... 3d86a89783

Google is your friend.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Greggyr wrote:

I would estimate that at least 5 seconds elapse between a passenger saying they'll get out of the taxi, to when the door actually opens. A cyclist doing 10mph would cover some distance in that time, so the driver may not see them, even when checking their mirrors.

24.44 yards, in fact.

But isn't the crucial period between the driver taking his foot off the brake so as to unlock the doors, and the doors opening? Whenever I'm in a cab I'm champing at the bit for the cabbie to release the doors. As soon as they are released, the door gets opened.

MJLowry

So yes I know I was "wrong" in moving forward on the kerb side, as you all know it happens so fast, I had no time to react. What I am looking for is advice on pursuit of a claim and will potentially get leagal advice, once the City of London police write to me. I have photos me in A&E before they stitched me up but not of the accident spot. There are 2 yellow lines where it happened and a no loading sign, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-yellow_line therefore the taxi driver is guilty on this count alone, as to the passenger he works foro Deutche bank (directly across road) and I can only assume he was late for a meeting. - great advice all keep it coming

MJLowry

MJLowry wrote:

So yes I know I was "wrong" in moving forward on the kerb side, as you all know it happens so fast, I had no time to react. What I am looking for is advice on pursuit of a claim and will potentially get leagal advice, once the City of London police write to me. I have photos me in A&E before they stitched me up but not of the accident spot. There are 2 yellow lines where it happened and a no loading sign, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-yellow_line therefore the taxi driver is guilty on this count alone, as to the passenger he works foro Deutche bank (directly across road) and I can only assume he was late for a meeting. - great advice all keep it coming

Forgot to say no indication either indicators or hazards on the taxi when stationary