ASL - Police car

Headhuunter

biondino wrote:

Hardly an unfair generalisation to say cyclists RLJ. Probably about half of them do, which almost makes it more accurate than suggesting they don't!

Personally I have come to the conclusion that the ASL should be for all two-wheeled traffic. Even 50cc scooters can accelerate quicker than almost all cyclists, and with an awareness and understanding of who's around them there's no reason for carnage.

You could even split the ASL into two, with the right hand side for motorbikes (cyclists shouldn't be on the right anyway, unless they're turning right, as they'll almost always have to veer back over to the left, holding up cars and getting in the way, potentially, of other cyclists).

"Probably about half of them do [RLJ], which almost makes it more accurate than suggesting they don't!" - slightly unfounded speculation! Have you got anything to back that up?

The point of ASLs is that they get cyclists ahead of the traffic in a safer spot where they are visible to motor traffic. It's not a case of who can accelerate away from the lights fastest. Certainly mopeds can get away from the lights faster than many cyclists but having them mixed in with cyclists in the ASL simply makes this rapid acceleration a danger. As for mopeds and motorcyclists being allowed to occupy the right side of the ASL, where does that leave cyclists who have filtered slong the right (often because the cycle lane on the left has been blocked, possibly by a moped rider)?

il_principe

Headhuunter wrote:

biondino wrote:

Hardly an unfair generalisation to say cyclists RLJ. Probably about half of them do, which almost makes it more accurate than suggesting they don't!

Personally I have come to the conclusion that the ASL should be for all two-wheeled traffic. Even 50cc scooters can accelerate quicker than almost all cyclists, and with an awareness and understanding of who's around them there's no reason for carnage.

You could even split the ASL into two, with the right hand side for motorbikes (cyclists shouldn't be on the right anyway, unless they're turning right, as they'll almost always have to veer back over to the left, holding up cars and getting in the way, potentially, of other cyclists).

"Probably about half of them do [RLJ], which almost makes it more accurate than suggesting they don't!" - slightly unfounded speculation! Have you got anything to back that up?

Course he doesn't, but I'd agree anyway. I reckon about half of cyclists on my commute RLJ, it's been like that for years.

Valy

You Not muhc wrong with "RLJ" if it's a crossroad with all 4 ped crossings lit green, especially if there are no people.

Headhuunter

Valy wrote:

You Not muhc wrong with "RLJ" if it's a crossroad with all 4 ped crossings lit green, especially if there are no people.

That's always been my view, no more dangerous than crossing the road against traffic as a pedestrian, of course you have to do it carefully, trickle across, give way to peds. Anyway, I'll probably get shot down in flames now...

OldSkoolKona

Interesting blog post about it here:
http://ibikelondon.blogspot.com/2010/04 ... clist.html

W1

Headhuunter wrote:

Valy wrote:

You Not muhc wrong with "RLJ" if it's a crossroad with all 4 ped crossings lit green, especially if there are no people.

That's always been my view, no more dangerous than crossing the road against traffic as a pedestrian, of course you have to do it carefully, trickle across, give way to peds. Anyway, I'll probably get shot down in flames now...

Just get off and walk then, if you're in that much of a hurry. All RLJ'ing does is concrete the "Daily Wail" mentality into those who see it happen (and you can't say you only RLJ when no-one is watching because you never know who might be....). Would you be happy with cars doing the same?

Valy

Headhuunter wrote:

Valy wrote:

You Not muhc wrong with "RLJ" if it's a crossroad with all 4 ped crossings lit green, especially if there are no people.

That's always been my view, no more dangerous than crossing the road against traffic as a pedestrian, of course you have to do it carefully, trickle across, give way to peds. Anyway, I'll probably get shot down in flames now...[/quote

Why did I write You Not myhc. WTF.

There is not much wrong....


WTF???? :shock:

lol
_______________________

But yeah, when it's liek that there are more or less no peds at the Xroad I'm talking about. You do wait/be careful when there are people there, OC.

W1

biondino wrote:

You could even split the ASL into two, with the right hand side for motorbikes (cyclists shouldn't be on the right anyway, unless they're turning right, as they'll almost always have to veer back over to the left, holding up cars and getting in the way, potentially, of other cyclists).

This, with a proviso for either cyclists or mopeds actually turning right/left being allowed into the "opposition" halves.

I followed a numpty up a cycle lane towards an ASL, where he got stuck. I told him he had a nice bike, but he was in a cycle lane. He informed me that the cycle lane only started at the ASL. Muppet, what did he think the dotted line with a picture of a bicycle in it meant?!

Giant Jon

Unless the police officers in question are traffic officers and/or bored, it's very unlikely they'll enforce the ASL anyway.

Near me most ASL's don't even have cycle lanes leading into them, which means that you either wait in the traffic like everybody else, or attempt to undertake the vehicles held in traffic and face the wrath of the drivers :evil: who usually nose into the pavement to stop this. Personally I don't see the point in ASL's anyway, ten seconds saved on a two hour ride really isn't worth it.

RLJing? Leave them to it, if they wanna get crushed by a car then let them.

And on another note, was travelling up the M1 when all the traffic slowed to 60mph. This was explained by the appearance of a police video suveillance unit, travelling at 50mph, and everybody was too scared to overtake it. Why was the police vehicle travelling so slowly? The driver was on his mobile phone...

W1

Giant Jon wrote:

Unless the police officers in question are traffic officers and/or bored, it's very unlikely they'll enforce the ASL anyway.
.

Am I right in thinking that there has still never been a ticket issued for an ASL infringement?

mroli

Headhuunter wrote:

That's always been my view, no more dangerous than crossing the road against traffic as a pedestrian, of course you have to do it carefully, trickle across, give way to peds. Anyway, I'll probably get shot down in flames now...

I'll light the flamethrower

I used to be of this opinion too, but I think there are some arguments against it -

1) You may trickle across, but other cyclists see it happen and just bomb across - which is dangerous;
2) Not all crossroads have 4 way lights - unless you know what is going on and it is clear, there may be a LH or RH turn light
3) Whether it is dangerous or not - it pisses off other road users - they are stopped (correctly) at lights. If you break a law like this then car drivers may think they're justified in RLJing a "little bit", or pulling into ASLs because there is no-one there etc...

I know there is such a thing as "considerate" RLJing, but personally will sit at a light for the extra 10 seconds and (today) enjoy the sunshine....

VespaTrek

What would go through your mind if you saw someone of the idiot variety RLJing without care etc., only to see them knocked down, leaving them shaken, but not stirred... ?

glauciaregina9

Interesting...

Cyclists justifying when it's "acceptable" to RLJ, whilst at the same time frowning on motorists when they interpret the highway code their own way and stop in an ASL...

We can't have it both ways.

RLJing is an offence. End of. Forget all the reasons and self-justification.

As a group, we cyclists don't have a leg to stand on. or pedal with. if we're not prepared to get our own house in order first.

We should be endeavouring to consciously & consistently propagate a positive perception of cyclists.

If motorists see just one cyclist RLJing, unfortunately this generates a hugely negative perception, that taints their attitude toward all cyclists.

Once the damage is done, it takes a heck of a lot to change this perception.

owenlars

glauciaregina9 wrote:

Interesting...

Cyclists justifying when it's "acceptable" to RLJ, whilst at the same time frowning on motorists when they interpret the highway code their own way and stop in an ASL...

We can't have it both ways.

RLJing is an offence. End of. Forget all the reasons and self-justification.

As a group, we cyclists don't have a leg to stand on. or pedal with. if we're not prepared to get our own house in order first.

We should be endeavouring to consciously & consistently propagate a positive perception of cyclists.

If motorists see just one cyclist RLJing, unfortunately this generates a hugely negative perception, that taints their attitude toward all cyclists.

Once the damage is done, it takes a heck of a lot to change this perception.

+1

OldSkoolKona

owenlars wrote:

glauciaregina9 wrote:

Interesting...

Cyclists justifying when it's "acceptable" to RLJ, whilst at the same time frowning on motorists when they interpret the highway code their own way and stop in an ASL...

We can't have it both ways.

RLJing is an offence. End of. Forget all the reasons and self-justification.

As a group, we cyclists don't have a leg to stand on. or pedal with. if we're not prepared to get our own house in order first.

We should be endeavouring to consciously & consistently propagate a positive perception of cyclists.

If motorists see just one cyclist RLJing, unfortunately this generates a hugely negative perception, that taints their attitude toward all cyclists.

Once the damage is done, it takes a heck of a lot to change this perception.

+1

+1

(wish I could find that thread where I linked to all the threads about RLJing :-))

Headhuunter

Valy wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Valy wrote:

You Not muhc wrong with "RLJ" if it's a crossroad with all 4 ped crossings lit green, especially if there are no people.

That's always been my view, no more dangerous than crossing the road against traffic as a pedestrian, of course you have to do it carefully, trickle across, give way to peds. Anyway, I'll probably get shot down in flames now...[/quote

Why did I write You Not myhc. WTF.

There is not much wrong....


WTF???? :shock:

lol
_______________________

But yeah, when it's liek that there are more or less no peds at the Xroad I'm talking about. You do wait/be careful when there are people there, OC.

Huh??!! :?

sebastiandangerfield

The Beginner wrote:

Solid white line, I was in the car as I was collecting my daughter from a late meeting, the first stop line IS the stop line as far as anything but cycle traffic is concerned, he broke the law.

Official complaint made, I've also asked if his passenger issued him with an FPN for contraveneing the ATS!

Simon

Yeah, that'l learn 'em. And it will definately make them respect you.

Salsamander

sebastiandangerfield wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Solid white line, I was in the car as I was collecting my daughter from a late meeting, the first stop line IS the stop line as far as anything but cycle traffic is concerned, he broke the law.

Official complaint made, I've also asked if his passenger issued him with an FPN for contraveneing the ATS!

Simon

Yeah, that'l learn 'em. And it will definitely make them respect you.

you're right, it would have been better to just do nothing. :roll:

sebastiandangerfield

Salsamander wrote:

sebastiandangerfield wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Solid white line, I was in the car as I was collecting my daughter from a late meeting, the first stop line IS the stop line as far as anything but cycle traffic is concerned, he broke the law.

Official complaint made, I've also asked if his passenger issued him with an FPN for contraveneing the ATS!

Simon

Yeah, that'l learn 'em. And it will definitely make them respect you.

you're right, it would have been better to just do nothing. :roll:

Exactly. It's such a minor thing, they wouldn't get told off in the slightest, nothing will come of it and it won't change anything in the future. In fact, it'l just make those individual officers think cyclists are pedantic and will probably have a negative effect on the whole.

W1

sebastiandangerfield wrote:

Salsamander wrote:

sebastiandangerfield wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Solid white line, I was in the car as I was collecting my daughter from a late meeting, the first stop line IS the stop line as far as anything but cycle traffic is concerned, he broke the law.

Official complaint made, I've also asked if his passenger issued him with an FPN for contraveneing the ATS!

Simon

Yeah, that'l learn 'em. And it will definitely make them respect you.

you're right, it would have been better to just do nothing. :roll:

Exactly. It's such a minor thing, they wouldn't get told off in the slightest, nothing will come of it and it won't change anything in the future. In fact, it'l just make those individual officers think cyclists are pedantic and will probably have a negative effect on the whole.

The police should be squeeky clean when it comes to things like this - it undermines their credibility when dealing with other minor offences if they can't keep their own shop in order.

Hopefully they'll not be so arrogant as to think they're above the law and might actually modify their behaviour in future. In the meantime this has just made a few people think the police are hypocrites and it's therefore their actions - not the original poster's - that have caused the negative effect "on the whole".

sebastiandangerfield

W1 wrote:

sebastiandangerfield wrote:

Salsamander wrote:

sebastiandangerfield wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Solid white line, I was in the car as I was collecting my daughter from a late meeting, the first stop line IS the stop line as far as anything but cycle traffic is concerned, he broke the law.

Official complaint made, I've also asked if his passenger issued him with an FPN for contraveneing the ATS!

Simon

Yeah, that'l learn 'em. And it will definitely make them respect you.

you're right, it would have been better to just do nothing. :roll:

Exactly. It's such a minor thing, they wouldn't get told off in the slightest, nothing will come of it and it won't change anything in the future. In fact, it'l just make those individual officers think cyclists are pedantic and will probably have a negative effect on the whole.

The police should be squeeky clean when it comes to things like this - it undermines their credibility when dealing with other minor offences if they can't keep their own shop in order.

Hopefully they'll not be so arrogant as to think they're above the law and might actually modify their behaviour in future. In the meantime this has just made a few people think the police are hypocrites and it's therefore their actions - not the original poster's - that have caused the negative effect "on the whole".

Who has the worse outcome is purely subjective so not really worth the argument. I agree that they shouldn't do it but, lets be honest, worse things happen and in all walks of life people stuff up, cut corners and break rules Police are no different.

My actual point was that there was little to achieve from reporting them. It's such a minor breach of the RTA that nothing would happen from their supervisors for discipline matters or legaly.

Porgy

itsbruce wrote:

dreamlx10 wrote:

Police officers are there to enforce the law, not to have an opinion on it.

Police officers are allowed to use their discretion when dealing with minor offences. Would be a much less pleasant world if that were not the case.

discretion eh? Me and the wife have been stopped in the car - over 15 years - many times by the plod for various breaches of the law - a slightly bald tyre, brake light not working, headlamp main beam not working, etc.. and I've been stopped for speeding once. Not once have I been fined as a motorist for any of this, not even a formal warning.

however, on the bike I have been stopped about 4 times for similarly minor breaches, and nothing as major as speeding - out of that fined three times and formally warned once.

Twice as a cyclist I've tried to report a dangerous motorist and the police tried to nick me for something i didn;t do both times.

Once I tried to report a car for not stopping at a zebra crossing as a pedestrian and was physically assaluted and told to f*ck off by pollice officer. Lady near me at time looked shocked and said he was obviously having a bad day for such making such an unprovoked attack.

Once as a cyclist a policeman stopped me and said that a lorry driver had seen me run a red light. I said the lorry driver was lying and he had to let me go - no evidence.


It doesn't seem to be discretion so much as heavy bias.

sebastiandangerfield

Porgy wrote:

itsbruce wrote:

dreamlx10 wrote:

Police officers are there to enforce the law, not to have an opinion on it.

Police officers are allowed to use their discretion when dealing with minor offences. Would be a much less pleasant world if that were not the case.

discretion eh? Me and the wife have been stopped in the car - over 15 years - many times by the plod for various breaches of the law - a slightly bald tyre, brake light not working, headlamp main beam not working, etc.. and I've been stopped for speeding once. Not once have I been fined as a motorist for any of this, not even a formal warning.

however, on the bike I have been stopped about 4 times for similarly minor breaches, and nothing as major as speeding - out of that fined three times and formally warned once.

Twice as a cyclist I've tried to report a dangerous motorist and the police tried to nick me for something i didn;t do both times.

Once I tried to report a car for not stopping at a zebra crossing as a pedestrian and was physically assaluted and told to f*ck off by pollice officer. Lady near me at time looked shocked and said he was obviously having a bad day for such making such an unprovoked attack.

Once as a cyclist a policeman stopped me and said that a lorry driver had seen me run a red light. I said the lorry driver was lying and he had to let me go - no evidence.


It doesn't seem to be discretion so much as heavy bias.

But that is discression, if it wasn't you'd have been dealt with criminaly each time.

I've been stopped a couple of times in my bike too. Ech time i'd commited offences but only once when I was speeding by some margin was I dealt with criminaly.

Equally, On my push bike, I've been stopped a few times but never sealt with for any offences.

The Rookie

W1 wrote:

Am I right in thinking that there has still never been a ticket issued for an ASL infringement?

There won't be any data, ist the same offence as RLGing, that is fauilure to comply with an automated traffic signal.

Simon

Valy

Headhuunter wrote:

Valy wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Valy wrote:

You Not muhc wrong with "RLJ" if it's a crossroad with all 4 ped crossings lit green, especially if there are no people.

That's always been my view, no more dangerous than crossing the road against traffic as a pedestrian, of course you have to do it carefully, trickle across, give way to peds. Anyway, I'll probably get shot down in flames now...[/quote

Why did I write You Not myhc. WTF.

There is not much wrong....


WTF???? :shock:

lol
_______________________

But yeah, when it's liek that there are more or less no peds at the Xroad I'm talking about. You do wait/be careful when there are people there, OC.

Huh??!! :?

Erm... I guess you can take it as a little witter from me.
_____________________________________________

Most of the time on my "commute" I wait at the lights, but there is this one or example:



The red lines are crossings and at one point all the pedestrian crossing lights come on at the same time. And there are only a few people crossing at the very beginning, if any at all.

The Rookie

Well responce from the ecilop, the local inspector has confirmed that the car wasn't a local one but was logged out from force HQ (which is only 2 miles away), he has sent them an email explaining that what he did was an offence and supplied a link to the relevant part of the highway code (rule 178 by the way) and asked that the officer concenred perhaps listen more and bluster less next time. Will get a responce back to me from them when he has it.

The inspector admitted that he had no idea cars couldn't stop in the box formed by the ASL! Claimed he was a keen cyclist as well!

Simon

cougie

The A41 by me has been repainted and theyve taken away the ASLs for bikes. And this is the road out of Chester which is officially a 'cycle town' ? Not sure quite what theyve done to earn that apart from a few extra bike racks and some silver bikes turned into flower baskets.....

Wallace1492

Porgy wrote:

itsbruce wrote:

dreamlx10 wrote:

Police officers are there to enforce the law, not to have an opinion on it.

Police officers are allowed to use their discretion when dealing with minor offences. Would be a much less pleasant world if that were not the case.

discretion eh? Me and the wife have been stopped in the car - over 15 years - many times by the plod for various breaches of the law - a slightly bald tyre, brake light not working, headlamp main beam not working, etc.. and I've been stopped for speeding once. Not once have I been fined as a motorist for any of this, not even a formal warning.

however, on the bike I have been stopped about 4 times for similarly minor breaches, and nothing as major as speeding - out of that fined three times and formally warned once.

Twice as a cyclist I've tried to report a dangerous motorist and the police tried to nick me for something i didn;t do both times.

Once I tried to report a car for not stopping at a zebra crossing as a pedestrian and was physically assaluted and told to f*ck off by pollice officer. Lady near me at time looked shocked and said he was obviously having a bad day for such making such an unprovoked attack.

Once as a cyclist a policeman stopped me and said that a lorry driver had seen me run a red light. I said the lorry driver was lying and he had to let me go - no evidence.


It doesn't seem to be discretion so much as heavy bias.

You really are unlucky Porgy, being physically and verbally assaulted by the Police when trying to report a dangerous driver...... I would be interested to hear the story from the Police Officers point of view... If it was witnessed I take it you took action and the Officer is no longer and Officer?

Valy

Whoah! WTF Porgy? :shock:

biondino

Valy wrote:

Whoah! WTF Porgy? :shock:

L-R Porgy, Bassjunkie, DDD