ASL - Police car

The Rookie
The Rookie Posts: 27,812
edited May 2010 in Commuting chat
Couldn't believe, it, last night followed a Police car who stopped in an ASL cycle box, I had a go at his bad example and he told me he could as long as no cyclist was in it, I pointed out that he was wrong and should read the RTA 1988 as amended and also how could a cycle get in once he had filled it, looked like he was going to stop me for a chat, but then maybe his passenger told him he was an 4r5e!

Simon
Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
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Comments

  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Was it a solid white line?
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    The Beginner wrote:
    he told me he could as long as no cyclist was in it

    Even if that were right, isn't the response "Well I'm in it now, so reverse out of it!"
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

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  • Gussio
    Gussio Posts: 2,452
    Power to the people. Smash the State.
  • spen666
    spen666 Posts: 17,709
    The Beginner wrote:
    Couldn't believe, it, last night followed a Police car who stopped in an ASL cycle box, I had a go at his bad example and he told me he could as long as no cyclist was in it, I pointed out that he was wrong and should read the RTA 1988 as amended and also how could a cycle get in once he had filled it, looked like he was going to stop me for a chat, but then maybe his passenger told him he was an 4r5e!

    Simon

    I've done that a few times

    Once WPC said she had not seen the ASL as she was operating the computer in the car. She was most put out when I pointed out that was an admission of driving without due care and attention ie careless driving. I wonder what she would have said if there had been a cyclist in ASL area when she arrived and had hit them?
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  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Solid white line, I was in the car as I was collecting my daughter from a late meeting, the first stop line IS the stop line as far as anything but cycle traffic is concerned, he broke the law.

    Official complaint made, I've also asked if his passenger issued him with an FPN for contraveneing the ATS!

    Simon
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • bails87
    bails87 Posts: 12,998
    Nice work. A police car almost squashed me when it pulled away from its parking spot on the pavement without any indicators. I'd been watching the driver as I approached from behind and he didn't check over his shoulder or use his wing mirror, which explains how he missed me. A quick shout of "MIRRORS" as he brushed the side of me did the trick. :twisted:
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • W1
    W1 Posts: 2,636
    I saw a police motorbike enter an ASL, and then took off when the lights changed to chase down a dozy RLJ-ing nodder. Oh the irony.
  • Aidy
    Aidy Posts: 2,015
    W1 wrote:
    I saw a police motorbike enter an ASL, and then took off when the lights changed to chase down a dozy RLJ-ing nodder. Oh the irony.

    Entrapment?
  • OldSkoolKona
    OldSkoolKona Posts: 655
    Police don't take them seriously. This was in the Guardian Bike Blog (the entry for which you now can't see from the main blog menu strangely...)
    Aveling also filled me in on another great cyclist mystery: why do police sometimes seem lax on drivers and motorcyclists who stray into bike lanes and bike-only advance stop zones (ASZs)?

    <snip>

    Booking cars which enter the zone is tricky, Aveling says, as it's not illegal if they stop in one if a light turns red as they're part-way in. Officers thus have to watch a driver creep in on an already red light. There are also rumours that some officers see the penalty for the infringement – six points on the licence the same as you'd get for sailing all the way through the red light – as a somewhat dispoportionate.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... red-lights
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    edited May 2010
    No, there was no coercion for the RLJer to jump the lights.....

    Had he entered the box on police business (to allow him more easily to chase down the RLJer for example) it would have been legit, if he entered it 'just because he could' its not!

    I agree an officer has to see the car move across the stop lione when the lights are red, but its 3 not 6 points!

    Simon
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • Aidy
    Aidy Posts: 2,015
    The Beginner wrote:
    No, there was no coercion for the RLJer to jump the lights.....

    Had he entered the box on police business (to allow him more easily to chase down the RLJer for example) it would have been legit, if he entered it 'just because he could' its not!

    Simon

    If someone pushes a motorbike in behind. I can see that you might feel prompted to depart it.
  • OldSkoolKona
    OldSkoolKona Posts: 655
    To be honest though, I'd be more surprised these days if the Police did actually obey the rules and not stop in the Advanced Stop Line box. There are plenty of pics on the interweb of Police vehicles in ASLs.

    Taken from MyBikeLaneLondon - http://london.mybikelane.com/

    main_post_13886.jpeg
    main_post_17767.jpeg
    main_post_17486.jpeg
  • dreamlx10
    dreamlx10 Posts: 235
    some officers see the penalty for the infringement – six points on the licence the same as you'd get for sailing all the way through the red light – as a somewhat dispoportionate.

    Police officers are there to enforce the law, not to have an opinion on it.
  • VespaTrek
    VespaTrek Posts: 72
    most cyclists don't use the asl cycle box anymore anyway, so it's fair game for anyone that wants to use it instead...
    Vespa GTS 300 most days... Trek 7.7FX the rest
  • Aidy
    Aidy Posts: 2,015
    OldSkoolKona wrote:
    Taken from MyBikeLaneLondon - http://london.mybikelane.com/

    That's an ace link - thanks :)
  • Aidy
    Aidy Posts: 2,015
    VespaTrek wrote:
    most cyclists don't use the asl cycle box anymore anyway, so it's fair game for anyone that wants to use it instead...

    Riiiight.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    OldSkoolKona wrote:
    Police don't take them seriously. This was in the Guardian Bike Blog (the entry for which you now can't see from the main blog menu strangely...)
    Aveling also filled me in on another great cyclist mystery: why do police sometimes seem lax on drivers and motorcyclists who stray into bike lanes and bike-only advance stop zones (ASZs)?

    <snip>

    Booking cars which enter the zone is tricky, Aveling says, as it's not illegal if they stop in one if a light turns red as they're part-way in. Officers thus have to watch a driver creep in on an already red light. There are also rumours that some officers see the penalty for the infringement – six points on the licence the same as you'd get for sailing all the way through the red light – as a somewhat dispoportionate.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... red-lights

    This is very true. I've mentioned this before on Bike Radar and have posted up a letter I received from the police. I got stopped a year or so ago. I approached a set of lights, with an ASL box, which as usual was chocca with cars, mopeds and motorbikes, so as usual I shunted past them all and positioned myself on the other side of the ped crossing. When the lights turned I moved off and got stopped on the other side of the junc. Got a lecture. I pointed out that the ASL box was impossible for me to remain in as it had been full of cars, he said that doesn't matter and said that he had taken down the reg plates of the drivers, which was complete b0ll0x because he was looking at me the entire time. I wrote to the City Police to complain and received a lovely letter back basically saying that they don't enforce ASLs because they feel the sanctions on drivers (points on licences and fines etc) are disproportionate to the crime. So there you have it, the police don't take ASLs seriously and are being selective about what they actually enforce.
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  • Clever Pun
    Clever Pun Posts: 6,778
    dreamlx10 wrote:
    some officers see the penalty for the infringement – six points on the licence the same as you'd get for sailing all the way through the red light – as a somewhat disproportionate.

    Police officers are there to enforce the law, not to have an opinion on it.

    But a bit of common sense goes a long way..

    Cops are humans too remember they've got a shitty job so cut em some slack
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  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    VespaTrek wrote:
    most cyclists don't use the asl cycle box anymore anyway, so it's fair game for anyone that wants to use it instead...

    Speaking personally, I don't tend to use ASL simply because they are full of Vespas. Chicken and egg situation...
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    Clever Pun wrote:
    dreamlx10 wrote:
    some officers see the penalty for the infringement – six points on the licence the same as you'd get for sailing all the way through the red light – as a somewhat disproportionate.

    Police officers are there to enforce the law, not to have an opinion on it.

    But a bit of common sense goes a long way..

    Cops are humans too remember they've got a shitty job so cut em some slack

    I think there's slack and then there's ignoring certain rules and enforcing others....
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • VespaTrek
    VespaTrek Posts: 72
    Headhuunter wrote:
    VespaTrek wrote:
    most cyclists don't use the asl cycle box anymore anyway, so it's fair game for anyone that wants to use it instead...

    Speaking personally, I don't tend to use ASL simply because they are full of Vespas. Chicken and egg situation...


    It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. If you do like me and wait behind the box as I do then you see the bikes pass through it and RLJ or wait the other side. But then 8/10 mbikes/scooters just use it anyway when it is empty. Too many people in too much of a hurry to save a few seconds.
    Vespa GTS 300 most days... Trek 7.7FX the rest
  • zanes
    zanes Posts: 563
    What you should do with city of london rozzers is tell them you think the driver in the ASL has a camera on him.
  • Aidy
    Aidy Posts: 2,015
    I get quite annoyed when scooters stop in ASLs, misjudge how fast I am off the line and cut across my path, and then shout at ME for apparently, not watching where I'm going.
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    VespaTrek wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    VespaTrek wrote:
    most cyclists don't use the asl cycle box anymore anyway, so it's fair game for anyone that wants to use it instead...

    Speaking personally, I don't tend to use ASL simply because they are full of Vespas. Chicken and egg situation...


    It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. If you do like me and wait behind the box as I do then you see the bikes pass through it and RLJ or wait the other side. But then 8/10 mbikes/scooters just use it anyway when it is empty. Too many people in too much of a hurry to save a few seconds.

    BZZZZZZZZZZZT! Generalisation.

    You're on a cycling site here old bean. Have a look at the 'is it OK for me to RLJ' threads! :D
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  • VespaTrek
    VespaTrek Posts: 72
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    VespaTrek wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    VespaTrek wrote:
    most cyclists don't use the asl cycle box anymore anyway, so it's fair game for anyone that wants to use it instead...

    Speaking personally, I don't tend to use ASL simply because they are full of Vespas. Chicken and egg situation...


    It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. If you do like me and wait behind the box as I do then you see the bikes pass through it and RLJ or wait the other side. But then 8/10 mbikes/scooters just use it anyway when it is empty. Too many people in too much of a hurry to save a few seconds.

    BZZZZZZZZZZZT! Generalisation.

    You're on a cycling site here old bean. Have a look at the 'is it OK for me to RLJ' threads! :D



    Just giving you another point of view, young bean! Cycle commute also, but find 70km too much every day at the moment... :P
    Vespa GTS 300 most days... Trek 7.7FX the rest
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    VespaTrek wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    VespaTrek wrote:
    most cyclists don't use the asl cycle box anymore anyway, so it's fair game for anyone that wants to use it instead...

    Speaking personally, I don't tend to use ASL simply because they are full of Vespas. Chicken and egg situation...


    It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. If you do like me and wait behind the box as I do then you see the bikes pass through it and RLJ or wait the other side. But then 8/10 mbikes/scooters just use it anyway when it is empty. Too many people in too much of a hurry to save a few seconds.

    If scooters only use the ASL "when it's empty" then of course they will always be using it! Generally scooters get to the next set of traffic lights before cyclists (they have motors), so there are unlikely to be any cyclists already in the box. What generally happens is that the flock of cyclists who were waiting at the last set of lights arrive at the next set after the scooters, motorbikes and other assorted motor traffic, which then proceeds to block the ASL. This is in general why I just skip the ASL and position myself ahead of all the motorised flotsam in the ASL... And as discussed the police don't enforce ASLs so this just becomes habit after a while....
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • Robstar24
    Robstar24 Posts: 173
    last night a police car went through a red light i had stopped at, granted no-one was crossing and it was a standard crossing rather than a junction but it sets a very poor example. no siren/lights on or anything, just couldn't be bummed waiting
  • itsbruce
    itsbruce Posts: 221
    dreamlx10 wrote:
    Police officers are there to enforce the law, not to have an opinion on it.

    Police officers are allowed to use their discretion when dealing with minor offences. Would be a much less pleasant world if that were not the case.
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  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    Hardly an unfair generalisation to say cyclists RLJ. Probably about half of them do, which almost makes it more accurate than suggesting they don't!

    Personally I have come to the conclusion that the ASL should be for all two-wheeled traffic. Even 50cc scooters can accelerate quicker than almost all cyclists, and with an awareness and understanding of who's around them there's no reason for carnage.

    You could even split the ASL into two, with the right hand side for motorbikes (cyclists shouldn't be on the right anyway, unless they're turning right, as they'll almost always have to veer back over to the left, holding up cars and getting in the way, potentially, of other cyclists).
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  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    biondino wrote:

    Personally I have come to the conclusion that the ASL should be for all two-wheeled traffic. Even 50cc scooters can accelerate quicker than almost all cyclists, and with an awareness and understanding of who's around them there's no reason for carnage.

    Something most 50cc scooter riders are sadly lacking in....

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