Power in 3/4 races
Comments
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TBH, on the last 3 of the 4 races I've done (flat sweeping circuit) my weight hasn't been an issue.
In my first race there were two very slow hairpins and a slight climb each lap, now that is where my weight nearly freakin' killed me!0 -
interesting thread, this- thanks for the OP and all the posts.
here's my (limited) experience from my first season racing after switiching from long distance tri.
i have only tested FTP (mainly because i think my 5 minute power will be embarrassing!) and that's 274W @ 69kg, which gives just about 4W/kg.
i've finished in the bunch comfortably in a 2/3/4 circuit race and in 3/4 road races, and managed to actually take an active part in a 4ths circuit race last weekend, chasing down breaks, making a couple of breaks, ie not just sitting there.
however, i still haven't managed to finish in the points and i have absolutely no idea how i'm going to manage to do that without resorting to one of those little motors the UCI are starting to get worried about:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/ma ... cal-doping0 -
Have you tried the various tactics (riding with break aways, long range attack near the end, getting in to a position to sprint (requires balls as it can be pretty hectic, or did at the few TLIs I've done)).0
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Have you tried the various tactics (riding with break aways, long range attack near the end, getting in to a position to sprint (requires balls as it can be pretty hectic, or did at the few TLIs I've done)).0
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Currently a 3rd cat - I do mainly 2/3/4 RR's and some TT's to mix things up. Struggle a bit in E/1/2/3 races (like the divs today). I have done a short 21 ten.
73kg - figures from this calendar year so far:- (usually get the 1 min and 5 mins higher when hill climbs come round)
5 secs 1083
60 secs 499
5 mins 381
20 mins 317
60 mins 2900 -
JoeyHalloran wrote:Have you tried the various tactics (riding with break aways, long range attack near the end, getting in to a position to sprint (requires balls as it can be pretty hectic, or did at the few TLIs I've done)).
I could probably talk to you about this more directly but hey
Race tactics: hide as much as possible but stay near the front.
Never ever do work unless there is a reason to do so that benefits you.
Pre race have a chat to people and find out who the decent competition is, then watch and follow them.
Try giving everything 2 or 3 miles from the line and try to hold it to the finish."I hold it true, what'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost;
Than never to have loved at all."
Alfred Tennyson0 -
Here's mine (newbie 4th Cat with 4 TLI races under his belt):
5 sec 980
60 sec 485
5 min 341
20 min 318
60 min 297
My sub-5 min power clearly needs some work.More problems but still living....0 -
nolf wrote:
I could probably talk to you about this more directly but hey
Race tactics: hide as much as possible but stay near the front.
Never ever do work unless there is a reason to do so that benefits you.
Pre race have a chat to people and find out who the decent competition is, then watch and follow them.
Try giving everything 2 or 3 miles from the line and try to hold it to the finish.
Yeah, doing the TLI's has given me plenty of awareness of the above. I was just wondering if I was fit enough to take on BC racing.0 -
just wondering whats everyone's power profiles came from?0
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Pokerface wrote:FrankieH wrote:just wondering whats everyone's power profiles came from?
Generally they come from people with Powertaps. The software generates the profile based on your past performances.
Yep mine's a powertap, based on the last 2 months data.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
Being a bit controversial, and probably not what those who have spent the price of a very decent set of wheels on power measurement devices want to hear; but at this level it might be better to just ride your bikes a bit more / harder and concentrate on the race and associated positioning, tactics and self belief. The only number that is important arre those giving your finish position.0
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Whilst I agree with this sentiment to a large extent, your post raises a couple of questions.......Dess1e wrote:The only number that is important are those giving your finish position.
how much more? Will riding my bike for 12 hours a week instead of 10 make the crucial difference between also ran and getting placed?Dess1e wrote:just ride your bikes a bit more / harder
how much harder? I thought I was going flat out already?
A powermeter can at least shed some light on the answers to the above.0 -
Dess1e wrote:Being a bit controversial, and probably not what those who have spent the price of a very decent set of wheels on power measurement devices want to hear; but at this level it might be better to just ride your bikes a bit more / harder and concentrate on the race and associated positioning, tactics and self belief. The only number that is important arre those giving your finish position.
I disagree.
I have very little time to train and having a powermeter means I can gauge my efforts during my limited training perfectly, ensuring maximum efficiency of my time.0 -
I don't use a power meter myself though I would like one in time. I don't think it's use means you aren't racing as hard as possible or concentrating on the race though as I assume the data is mainly used later for analysis rather than to tell you how hard you are going at the time when racing. However, in training it allows you to tailor your training to be as effective as possible and maximise the use of the time you have available.
If there are any power meter manufacturers out there looking for a guinea pig to show the benefits of training with their product PM me and I'll consider your offer
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@dess1e Don't get me started on wheels! Plenty of people will spend hundreds if not thousands on a set of bling wheels that will have a barely measurable impact on performance in a bunch race and then 30 quid on a speedo and bang on to you about how they covered 500km at 25.1 mph rather than 24.9 at the weekend and therefore they are much stronger.
Present the same people with a device that accurately measures their physiological ability as a cyclist and it is dismissed as an expensive waste of money and a useless fad. I'm absolutely not disagreeing that there is far more to racing than good power output, but if you want to improve your physiology PMs are invaluable.0 -
my powermeter has made me completely change my training, my 25 time has come down by over 11 minutes in 1 year. It transforms training completely.0
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Interesting thread.
What hasn't been pointed out yet re. watts is that it's often not the overall speed/power required to stay in the bunch that's important, it's the ability to handle the surges. So while you could have 3.5w/kg and happily sit in the middle of the bunch all day long, if you're caught out near the back napping and an attack goes and a wheel gets dropped somewhere in front of you that you don't anticipate and you have to sprint like hell to get back on... and then this happens several more times during the race on a sharp corner, an uphill, after someone wobbles in front of you and you have to brake... well that's what will spit you out the back eventually. So it's not only about a reasonable FTP, it's about being able to handle the surges in speed when required (5-sec to 1-min power mostly). Good positioning can help mitigate these problems though.
My numbers (not from formal testing, mostly from racing this season):
53kg
5-sec 725
1-min 400
5-min 310
20-min 260
60-min 240
I can hang in a flat men's cat 3 race easily but I generally do not contest the sprint finish. Men's races with lots of short power climbs tend to spit me out sooner or later (showing how absolute watts trumps w/kg), but I do reasonably well on longer hills vs men. 0 -
Indeed, and it's an area I struggle with in twisty circuit races as I mentioned.maryka wrote:it's the ability to handle the surges.
From a power point of view, any race where the Normalized Power to stay with the bunch is more than 105% of your FTP for a sustained period (>20 mins) is going to see you struggle. Good positioning and bike handling is crucial to reduce the amount of hard efforts you make as far as possible.0 -
Powertap or power measurement won't help you much in a bunch race - agreed.
But if you use it correctly in your training, it will make you a strong/better rider so that you are better equipped and in better condition come race day.
I have spent years just blindly riding my bike in training. Hour after hour. And never managed to finish a race in the bunch.
THis past winter - invested in a powertap, changed my training - and now I'm riding with the Irish National (Paralympic) team - and not only finishing races in the bunch - but sometimes actually placing in them.0 -
Just wondering if there are any cheaper alternatives to the POwertap at the moment?
The idea of spending £500 on a PT is a bit much .
Any recommendations?
I'd kind of like to know what my power is over say, 20 mins or an hour.
I suspect it's low,but I'd like to know nevertheless.0 -
ives. wrote:Just wondering if there are any cheaper alternatives to the POwertap at the moment?
The idea of spending £500 on a PT is a bit much .
Any recommendations?
I'd kind of like to know what my power is over say, 20 mins or an hour.
I suspect it's low,but I'd like to know nevertheless.
2nd hand power tap?
There is the iBike Aero which I have no experience of and can't see how it can be accurate and you can't use it on a turbo...
There is the Polar jobbie too but this measures chain tension :?0 -
ives. wrote:Just wondering if there are any cheaper alternatives to the POwertap at the moment?
The idea of spending £500 on a PT is a bit much .
Any recommendations?
I'd kind of like to know what my power is over say, 20 mins or an hour.
I suspect it's low,but I'd like to know nevertheless.
Where do you live? You could try to find someone local to you with a PowerTap and see if they'd lend it to you for a couple of hours/days.More problems but still living....0 -
You can rent one for ~12 quid a week from Cyclepowermeters.com, very worthwhile if you want to do a training/testing block a couple of times a year, or just try one before you buy. If you rent one for long enough, you'll build up a "rental allowance" that gets you a significant discount if you choose to buy one from them.ives. wrote:Just wondering if there are any cheaper alternatives to the POwertap at the moment?
The idea of spending £500 on a PT is a bit much .
Any recommendations?
I'd kind of like to know what my power is over say, 20 mins or an hour.
I suspect it's low,but I'd like to know nevertheless.
Google around for powermeter reviews, but given the limitations of ibike and the Polar models I don't think I'd get either one myself. Second-hand powertaps come up regularly on ebay and elsewhere.
Powertaps work best for me, using the same wheel for multiple bikes. I would not want to fiddle with working out the ibike "pedalling position" or mess with swapping cranks back and forth between bikes like with a Quarq or SRM.0 -
I rented one to try it out. But I think you need to keep it for a minimum of 12 weeks.
But ti still worked out pretty cheap and was worth it to me. I bought my own after that.0 -
thanks for the replies.
I would imagine buying one would be the best option since I assume they are in demand 2nd hand on ebay meaning that you could sell it easily if you found you didn't use it or got sick of it .
800 notes for a wireless version with build wheel.
Might start saving up0 -
Not really an alternative, as you could always ride 300 miles with a powertap ^^0
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Hey Joey - what racing have you done before?
Surely you have done some time trials or something, hence the need for a powertap in the first place.
Knowing what average power other people are producing in a 3/4 race is a bit pointless to say the least.
People saying positions are whats important are right - it doesn't ask for your power output on the BC entry form
Why not just enter a race and see if you can keep up, then analyse YOUR data afterwards to see where you need to improve.
Road racing is nowhere near controlled and uniform as a time trial or a training session. The pace is dictated by any of the riders in the race so you cannot ride as steady a race that you may want to, unless you want to ride on your own - but I think they are called time trials 0
