Power in 3/4 races

joeyhalloran
joeyhalloran Posts: 1,077
edited June 2010 in Amateur race
Hi guys, anyone got any power data from 3/4 races. Thinking of giving it ago but wanna see what other people are capable. I know it depends a lot on tactics but should give me a ball park figure.
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Comments

  • pinkbikini
    pinkbikini Posts: 876
    1hr at 311W, Hillingdon last year in an E123 (I'm a 3rd). In another crit race, 340W at the front for a few minutes, 240W in mid-bunch. Road race average for a 3rds race was about 240W as well. Effective drafting cuts it all down.

    Doesn't tell you much, does it? Go ride in a bunch/chaingang with a club to get the bike handling skills then just enter a race. Enjoy it - it's good fun!
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Varies wildly.

    Some are on/off and some are more steady.

    I'm a new 4th Cat.

    My first race averaged 23mph, average power for the hour was 281w but that bears no resemblance to the effort (I was shelled out very quickly and lapped numerous times) due to the fact there were two very tight (15mph) hairpins. It was a full on sprint twice a (short) lap.

    My last race which was on a more sweeping course averaged just over 25mph but average power was roughly 265w for the hour. I rode a lot smarter which worked very well as I finished in the points.



    The only way to tell is get out there and have a go!
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,077
    hmm, 281 sounds quite high! I have entered 3 events over the summer so I hope i get a ride (or 3). Just wanted to know what to expect really.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    That 281 was more like at least 7-800 on for a few seconds, cruise at about 250ish for 25 seconds then off just before the corner for a few seconds, repeat 60 times.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,588
    I don't know much about power but won't the rider's mass pay some part too especially if there are regular accelerations and / or hills?
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,077
    yeah, for acceleration and hills, but not so much if its fairly flat and drafting. What will also make a difference is how aero each rider is on the bike. But I figure I am about average for all of the above, so if I average out all the results I should get some sort of idea.

    I have done 2 TLI races before (not to much problem) and a year of chain gangs (last year) this year focused on TTing but gonna start doing a few months of chaingangs prior to my first race.
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    I only have power data from TLI races, but I don't expect Cat3/4 races to be that much different.

    Last race I did I spent most of my time near the front, doing plenty of work and got in a 7 man breakaway on the last lap to finish 4th. I weigh 69kg and my FTP is about 295 Watts.

    Distance: 60.3 km
    Speed: 39 km/h
    Average Power: 267 Watts
    Normalised Power: 284 Watts
    Peak 10 sec Power: 705 Watts
    Peak 30 sec Power: 475 Watts
    Peak 1 min Power: 425 Watts
    Peak 2 min Power: 378 Watts
    Peak 5 min Power: 323 Watts
    Peak 10 min Power: 298 Watts
    Peak 20 min Power: 291 Watts (297 normalised)
    Peak 30 min Power: 283 Watts (296 normalised)
    Peak 60 min Power: 271 Watts (287 normalised)
    More problems but still living....
  • sheffsimon
    sheffsimon Posts: 1,282
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    yeah, for acceleration and hills, but not so much if its fairly flat and drafting. What will also make a difference is how aero each rider is on the bike. But I figure I am about average for all of the above, so if I average out all the results I should get some sort of idea.

    I have done 2 TLI races before (not to much problem) and a year of chain gangs (last year) this year focused on TTing but gonna start doing a few months of chaingangs prior to my first race.

    I ride both TLI and 3/4 cat, not much to choose between them effort wise.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    Hi guys, anyone got any power data from 3/4 races. Thinking of giving it ago but wanna see what other people are capable. I know it depends a lot on tactics but should give me a ball park figure.

    Not really, at Goodwood last year a club mate finished mid bunch with an average of around 120watts for the 70 minutes, I averaged around 280, but could've averaged a lot less or a lot more, it all depends on what you do in the race, the type of circuit, the rides you do.

    On a completely non-technical circuit like Goodwood, with a large field (to remove the need to accelerate hard to stay with the bunch, you can just drift through) you could probably finish in the bunch with under 2watts per kilo.

    At Crystal palace, with hard corners, hills, etc. etc. you'd potentially struggle with 4 even.

    I always post power data in the race reports thread for my races - I'm likely one of the people wasting the most possible power in a race, expect others to have a lot less!
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Thick Tester
    Thick Tester Posts: 380
    Rather than pither around with meaningless figures i suggest you rely on being able to dish the pain out on your local CG as a bell weather to see if you are good enough to race.
    At least that way you have meaningful yardstick of if you are good enough to pick up an envelope- and thats what really counts.
    You should be ashamed of yourselves swapping numbers on here like some sort of Warhammer convention.
    That is all.
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,077
    who said I was seeing if i was good enough to race? I have already said I have entered 3 races. Read the thread please.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,588
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    who said I was seeing if i was good enough to race? I have already said I have entered 3 races. Read the thread please.

    Ignore him, have a look at his 20 posts and you'll see he's just being "funny". :wink:
  • Slow1972
    Slow1972 Posts: 362
    He has a point, you could knock out 280 Watts and the bloke who beats you may cross the line with a 225W avg
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Pross wrote:
    I don't know much about power but won't the rider's mass pay some part too especially if there are regular accelerations and / or hills?

    Yes, very much so!

    However on a flat, sweeping course I come into my own ;)

    I've got a lot better at hiding and moving up to near the front for the minimal amount of effort...
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,588
    Slow1972 wrote:
    He has a point, you could knock out 280 Watts and the bloke who beats you may cross the line with a 225W avg

    True, it's just the way he puts the point across though :lol: I'd agree that power isn't particularly relevant as tactics and mental strength can be far more important. Just like when people say "I'm averaging 18mph o a training ride am I good enough to race". Nothing will prepare you for when the flag goes down on that first race - from my own experience I would get out of breath for the first 10 minutes purely from the build up of adrenaline!
  • Thick Tester
    Thick Tester Posts: 380
    You may think i'm trying to be mildly amusing but cmon... it has come to something when a thick tester talks more sense than most. :D
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Mine is an example of the power required if you have no tactics other than to ride as hard as you can for the race - I'd rather ride hard and come last than sit in the bunch doing f'all and win (for now).
    More problems but still living....
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    My power is similar to Amaferanga's but I weigh about 30% more!
  • Slow1972
    Slow1972 Posts: 362
    amaferanga wrote:
    Mine is an example of the power required if you have no tactics other than to ride as hard as you can for the race - I'd rather ride hard and come last than sit in the bunch doing f'all and win (for now).

    If you are getting into 7 man breaks and coming 4th, your tactics are better than simply riding as hard as you can. No tactics would be simply being a bunch engine sitting on the front towing everyone along all day without kicking across to the break.
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    I reckon an FTP of around 4W/kg puts you in the race (3/4 cat). Much less than that and you are simply hanging on.

    But as others have pointed out, it's a bit more complicated than who's the strongest.
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Bronzie wrote:
    I reckon an FTP of around 4W/kg puts you in the race (3/4 cat). Much less than that and you are simply hanging on.

    But as others have pointed out, it's a bit more complicated than who's the strongest.

    Indeed, mine is under 3 and I can barely hang on to the rearmost bunch in a 3/4 race!
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,077
    Mine is currently 3.7 ish, but have a bit of weight to lose and a few months to find some watts. Also, that is using ftp from a TT race, so might be higher on a road bike and with a more open hip angle.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    Mine is currently 3.7 ish, but have a bit of weight to lose and a few months to find some watts. Also, that is using ftp from a TT race, so might be higher on a road bike and with a more open hip angle.

    Unless you're 50kg's, because most races in the UK absolute watts can make more difference than simply w/kg you should have little problem racing a 3/4 race, although it may take you a few goes to get use to holding the bunch.

    Get some good group ride practice in first to limit that.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,077
    have a month or two of chaingangs lined up but have done many before, and 2 TLI races. I weight closer to 70 KG so hopefully that power + not being in the aero position will help me hold on to the bunch.
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Slow1972 wrote:
    amaferanga wrote:
    Mine is an example of the power required if you have no tactics other than to ride as hard as you can for the race - I'd rather ride hard and come last than sit in the bunch doing f'all and win (for now).

    If you are getting into 7 man breaks and coming 4th, your tactics are better than simply riding as hard as you can. No tactics would be simply being a bunch engine sitting on the front towing everyone along all day without kicking across to the break.

    TBH I was just lucky that day. But then I rarely dropped more than 5 or 6 riders from the front of the bunch so I guess I was always in the right place.
    More problems but still living....
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,077
    Anyone willing to post thier power profile up? (5 sec, 30 sec, 1 min, 5 min, etc...) power/weight? or even just power?

    I'm just curious.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    Anyone willing to post thier power profile up? (5 sec, 30 sec, 1 min, 5 min, etc...) power/weight? or even just power?

    @ ~75kg

    5sec - 1208
    30sec - 802
    1min - 671
    5min - 438
    20min - 349
    60min - 324

    I am in no danger in a 3/4 race of getting dropped.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    @ ~73kg

    5sec - 900
    1min - 590
    5min - 345
    20min - 285
    60min - 270

    Can usually hang in there in a 3/4 road race (but not always, and normally too foddered to do much at finish..........and don't have much of a sprint anyway).
    Normally struggle in 3/4 circuit race with lots of accelerations out of corners.
    Always get a kicking in the few 2/3/4 races I ride each season.
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    edited May 2010
    @ ~87.5kg

    5sec - 1099
    1min - 518
    5min- 361
    20min- Not tested recently but was 301 on road bike 6th March
    60min- Not tested recently but was 280 on road bike 6th March

    First three were done on a TT bike on 6th May in a test. I am around 10% stronger on the road bike.
    I have come on a hell of a lot since 6th March...

    Can just about hang on in group in a 3/4 if I'm lucky...

    Came in points in a 4ths race. (8th Should have come higher but I was so surprised to be in the mix I didn't sprint properly!!)
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,077
    Gonna do an FTP test of the road bike tomorrow to see where I'm at. Haven't ridden much in the upright position so still feels a bit wierd. See how it goes. Most recent FTP (28th March) was 248W and at 72 kg that gives me a litlte bit better FTP than you. Due to all the TT trainign my power to weight shifts the other way getting to slower intervals, but have around two months to build up to another peak, lose a bit more weight and work on the short anaerobic stuff.

    Can't wait to jump in!

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