The Hog, Vino, and the Tour...
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Do you think Vino will ride for Contador in July? ...what if he wins the Giro?0
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It’s how he fits into the ’09 GC contender dynamic that intrigues me, I have no doubt that given a sniff he’ll take the opportunities and he’ll be a thorn in the side of the non Astanas whatever happens, he’s come back very strong. He could be Contador’s trump card. Going to be fascinating, just hope his form from day to day doesn’t start yo-yo’ing….0
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Nothing really new there, except perhaps he is trying to manufacture a rift between Vino and Contador. I would have thought that Contador knows Vino far better than JB,ju5t1n wrote:Do you think Vino will ride for Contador in July? ...what if he wins the Giro?
Whether Vino wins the Giro or not, I think that he will still support Contador at the Tour. I think that he would like to keep AC at Astana for a while longer, and trying to do him over at the Tour is not the way to go about it.0 -
ju5t1n wrote:Do you think Vino will ride for Contador in July? ...what if he wins the Giro?
Also if Vino wins the Giro he will probably go about as good as Menchov or Sastre in the Tour last year. ie. He will run out of gas. Also the poster above me makes a good point. If he wants Contador to stay on in the future he will have to sho some loyalty toward him.Do you have any Therapeutic Use Exemptions?
No. Never have.
Never? What about the cortisone?
Well, obviously there was the cortisone0 -
Yes, Contador holds all the cards. Unless Vino threatens to reveal a hidden network of bloodbags, then Contador can out climb and out time trial Vino. Vino's not getting any younger and the Spaniard can name his price once his contract ends later this year. Contador's already won the Tour de France despite of his team, he could do it again if need be but I doubt this will be the case.
Instead, this is a handy deflection exercise to cover up the way Bruyneel and Armstrong gave Contador the shaft last year, the story isn't potential splits within Astana, it's Bruyneel's past management blunders.0 -
El Imbatido wrote:ju5t1n wrote:Do you think Vino will ride for Contador in July? ...what if he wins the Giro?
Also if Vino wins the Giro he will probably go about as good as Menchov or Sastre in the Tour last year. ie. He will run out of gas.
Not sure he subscribes to all that, he's a hardened machine from Kazakhstan with massive calves who will bing-ring you to death.
Not for him pampered western concepts such as tapering and recovery rides etc, he'd rather go for a 10 hr solo-ride into the steppes with a massive headwind and a puncture.
I'm sure his pre-tour training used to involve bear hunting in the wilderness with Der Kaiser...0 -
And he still looks nails dressed in pink too.
come on the Kazakh0 -
le patron wrote:I'm sure his pre-tour training used to involve bear hunting in the wilderness with Der Kaiser...
Der Kaiser would hunt then for Vino to wrestle with
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if you remember back to the 05 tour, they talked about Telekom having a triple threat, Ulrich, Vino and Klodi.
Putting aside the drugs issues for one second (and it is hard to), what was clear was that Ulrich was the leader, and Vino was meant to support him. What happened was that Vino ran his own race and wanted to be leader, and had no interest in supporting the team or Ulrich.
Fast forward 5 years....Astana - vino sees it as his team, always has, always will. No matter how much better contador is, Vino is there for the win, nothing else. This will be proven when Contador leaves astana next year becasue of the lack of support he is due to get this july.0 -
I doubt very much that Vino will do anything to damage Contador. I think he will be a superb rider to have helping.
Fat boy Bruny is a total disgrace and the sooner he leave the sport the better. The Whack Shack will hopefully get smoked apart from Horner who the whole team should work for as he.Contador is the Greatest0 -
le patron wrote:[Not for him pampered western concepts such as tapering and recovery rides etc, he'd rather go for a 10 hr solo-ride into the steppes with a massive headwind and a puncture.
I'm sure his pre-tour training used to involve bear hunting in the wilderness with Der Kaiser...
Don't forget the razor blades loose in his bibsCannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 30000 -
intothe12, I think that Vino and the others in his team in those years didn't get on well (or so I read recently) so he had no motivation to work for his 'team mates'.Contador is the Greatest0
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le patron wrote:Not sure he subscribes to all that, he's a hardened machine from Kazakhstan with massive calves who will bing-ring you to death.
Not for him pampered western concepts such as tapering and recovery rides etc, he'd rather go for a 10 hr solo-ride into the steppes with a massive headwind and a puncture.
I'm sure his pre-tour training used to involve bear hunting in the wilderness with Der Kaiser...
Great stuff. Add to that swimming in freezing lakes in deserted areas of his homeland and then this:
(I don't know for sure if this is him but the caption said it was and it looks like him...)Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:intothe12, I think that Vino and the others in his team in those years didn't get on well (or so I read recently) so he had no motivation to work for his 'team mates'.
FF, I'd like to think I'm wrong. Even though I doubt the stable where Contador comes from, I like his racing style, panache. I like the fact that he blew to sh*t in Paris Nice. He makes racing exciting, unlike the formulaic Indurain & armstrong years. Saying that, I think Vino is hungry for revenge.
I think Vino will handle the first week in Belgium and Holland fairly well. The real test is that if Contador misses the splits, which is what Pharmstrong and Co hope. Will vino go back to help him. I dont know the answer, but I suspect not. they will probably run this Two Leader Duel role nonsense. That system has never worked well for any team in the Tour.0 -
Would a good DS sent Vino back if he is going well? There are other team mates. I think that Vino would just not force the pace but mark the guys up front.intothe12 wrote:I think Vino will handle the first week in Belgium and Holland fairly well. The real test is that if Contador misses the splits, which is what Pharmstrong and Co hope. Will vino go back to help him. I dont know the answer, but I suspect not. they will probably run this Two Leader Duel role nonsense. That system has never worked well for any team in the Tour.
With regards to the '05 TdF, Vino believed he, or Ullrich, could beat Armstrong, but got frustrated with the conservative tactics of the T-Mob. Understandable really. After that he knew he had to leave.0 -
intothe12 wrote:The real test is that if Contador misses the splits, which is what Pharmstrong and Co hope.
I hope he misses them too and Andy Schleck (although him and Frank will likely be towed along and out of trouble by the masterful Fabu). That way he will have to go for broke in the mountains, even more than he already will. Put the biggest riders on the back foot then wait for the fighting spirit!
I don't think Vino going back will be an issue for three reasons. 1. I expect Contador will be pretty glued to Vino's wheel when it hots up so they will be in the same place. 2. If they are split, the Astana guys have ridden cohesively recently and would be help AC themselve. 3. Contador could make up a lot more time than Vino in the mountains so it wouldn't make sense to drop him back.Contador is the Greatest0 -
I amazed he is going to ride the tour in any capacity"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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frenchfighter wrote:intothe12 wrote:The real test is that if Contador misses the splits, which is what Pharmstrong and Co hope.
I hope he misses them too and Andy Schleck (although him and Frank will likely be towed along and out of trouble by the masterful Fabu). That way he will have to go for broke in the mountains, even more than he already will. Put the biggest riders on the back foot then wait for the fighting spirit!
I don't think Vino going back will be an issue for three reasons. 1. I expect Contador will be pretty glued to Vino's wheel when it hots up so they will be in the same place. 2. If they are split, the Astana guys have ridden cohesively recently and would be help AC themselve. 3. Contador could make up a lot more time than Vino in the mountains so it wouldn't make sense to drop him back.
True enough and good points.
I think we all hope that a devil may care attitude prevails with regards to attacks. I remember watching the 95 tour and the stage to Mende when ja ja wone, or even the 97 tour when festina started going for broke. Although they are all a bit tainted for me, I remember the pure excitment of attacks coming from everywhere, Banesto going crazy chasing Once... attack attack.. then the likes of indurain attacking into Liege with JB swinging out of this rear mech trying to hang on.... great racing...anything that promotes this, be it cobbles, or the bianca strade like we had in the Giro, is only a good thing. Any team tactics that leaves the attacks until the last 5km of the last climb, forget it...0 -
intothe12 wrote:or even the 97 tour when festina started going for broke. Although they are all a bit tainted for me, .
all a bit!!!!
slight understatement there"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Vino won't be in the condition needed to win the Tour, he will, however, be a good teammate and a good card to play for Astana if he is high up the GC (just like LBL, contador could sit back knowing Vino up the road).0
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mididoctors wrote:intothe12 wrote:or even the 97 tour when festina started going for broke. Although they are all a bit tainted for me, .
all a bit!!!!
slight understatement there
no point in overstating the obvious! 0 -
Astana alone will make it worth watching. Contador isn't on a leash anymore, he'll take his rivals to a world of pain.
As for Vino, he's like a troublesome friend. Not always great to be associated with, but you'd rather have him on your side. He'll serve for Contador, although not due to the Spaniard unequivocally putting him in his place because he asked for it 0 -
Just to reinforce a couple of points to the argument:
Vino is a stakeholder in Astana, therefore he still has a vested interest in Astana / Bertie winning and he's certainly unlikely to try and undermine his team-mate or contemplate any Psy-Ops activities to do so.
We still have the 'legacy' of the 8 Astana blood-bags from last year - at least 7 of which belong to riders at the Shack and under the management of the Hog. French judicial process has still to serve and Fat Pat might not be able to influence the outcome...
This is just more $hit-stirring by the Hog - but like last year, they'll be shown up for the charlatans they are - the fanboys may bleat but Retirement Shack aren't going to be anywhere near the top of the podium come July.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0 -
Well said Monty!
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Bruyneel and Armstrong don't do themselves any favours with proper cycling fans, but I think the spat with Contador last year was blown completely out of proportion.
What makes more sense - helping Contador win the TdF by over five mniutes rather than four or helping Astana get two men on the podium rather than one?
OK, they handled the internal dispute badly, but it really was a bit of a non-issue.
Anyway, after years of drugs scandals I don't think the media would buy into a controversy-free TdF so they pushed the Astana story as hard as they could.0 -
Contador and Vino are mates from back in their Liberty Seguros days aren't they?
Pretty sure Contador offered his services to Vino then.0 -
True. Vino was there for the first half of 06 when Astana started and Contador was with him since the begining.
LOL
Contador is the Greatest0 -
Abdoujaparov wrote:Bruyneel and Armstrong don't do themselves any favours with proper cycling fans, but I think the spat with Contador last year was blown completely out of proportion.
What makes more sense - helping Contador win the TdF by over five mniutes rather than four or helping Astana get two men on the podium rather than one?
OK, they handled the internal dispute badly, but it really was a bit of a non-issue.
Anyway, after years of drugs scandals I don't think the media would buy into a controversy-free TdF so they pushed the Astana story as hard as they could.
I think the line was they wanted 3 on the podium, rather than 2.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:True. Vino was there for the first half of 06 when Astana started and Contador was with him since the begining.
LOL
And Bertie in his Astana-Wurth colours from 2006.
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