national insurance

Team Banana Spokesman

I got my pay slip today. first one ever.

they've taken off close to 5.6% for NI.

is this just to fund a pension?

what if I dont want a pension? I wont be in the country when i'm old and 60% of my wages are saved. I live like a monk!

can I get these payments back?

with tax at 20% it is now clear that I get paid for 3 weeks work for every 4.

sucks. big time. :x

how does offshore banking work? could I live tax free that way legally/safely?

skyd0g

Welcome to the real world.

It's actually worse than you already think. After you've got your pay-packet, minus tax & national insurance, there's vat on just about everything that you buy (with some exceptions). So that's another 17.5% out of your wage.
Then there's things like booze, cigs and petrol that are taxed at about 85%... ...and things that you can't avoid paying like road tax (if you have a car), Council Tax (if you don't live with your parents) that are entirely tax.

...so you're probably only getting paid for five days out of every month.

STEFANOS4784

Where do you think money for running the country comes from? ie school, police, hospitals, MP's second homes, MP's cake tins etc etc. Go and live in Korea if you don't like it. Have fun


I for one don't mind paying out when i think about the terrible standard of living some people have to put up with compared to our relative paradise 8)

inkyfingers

The idea of NI is that it is money the government uses to pay for your healthcare and pension when you get old...however, because we are so skint they are actually using it like any other tax income for bills that they need to pay now. I really think it's time for tax and NI to become one thing as it would make the system much more simple. The goverment like NI however as people don't really understand how it works so they can raise it and claim that they haven't increased tax!!

I think that anybody in their 20 and 30s now really should have a personal pension now if they can afford it as by the time we are old there will either be no state pension or it will not come close to covering living costs due to increases in life expectancy and care costs.

guinea

Heh. Tax is nowhere near high enough to pay for our future aging population. Our future pensions deficit and NHS bill is going to be mind blowing.

I pay quite a lot of tax. I don't grudge a penny of my income tax. (council tax on the other hand...) My parents have both been quite ill with lengthy hospital stays and survive on state benefits, I went to good schools and university all paid for by taxpayers. I've recently spent a lot of time in hospital with injuries requiring dozens of scans and x-rays. Look around your family and see the examples where the NHS has helped you out.

Well done, you've started to pay tax. You should be proud. It'll be a long time before you pay back what the state has already spent on you.

0scar

guinea wrote:

Well done, you've started to pay tax. You should be proud. It'll be a long time before you pay back what the state has already spent on you.

+ 1 to this

pst88

It's just another term for tax.

spanielsson

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

I for one don't mind paying out when i think about the terrible standard of living some people have to put up with compared to our relative paradise 8)

Be careful, you may be accused of being: a liberal lefty, PC loving, tree hugger, immigrant loving etc......

I agree with you. We moan about the taxes we pay, but the standard of living we have is fantastic compared to other places that are now part of the EU.

I know not all of what we give is used wisely, but I'd rather make sacrifice and know that I have the NHS instead of having to re-mortgage to pay for health care.

passout

Death and taxes........

TheStone

National Insurance is a bit of a con. It's just tax. None of it is saved for your future.

Your employee has already paid the govt another 13% on you behalf, but that gets forgotten.

Income tax, employees national insurance and employers national insurance is all one
cheque paid to HMRC.

Even at the lower level you're paying around 45% to the govt, plus council tax, VAT and
some kind of excise on anything that's fun. Above 100k now works out around 75%.

Where does it all go? Mostly health, education, benefits and security. A lot is probably well
spent, but plenty is wasted.

will3

TheStone wrote:

Where does it all go? Mostly health, education, benefits and security. A lot is probably well
spent, but plenty is wasted.

NHS - 3rd largest employer "in the world"*


* possibly, I read it on the internetz, sot it must be true

TheStone

will3 wrote:

TheStone wrote:

Where does it all go? Mostly health, education, benefits and security. A lot is probably well
spent, but plenty is wasted.

NHS - 3rd largest employer "in the world"*


* possibly, I read it on the internetz, sot it must be true

It wouldn't surprise me. Anyone who thinks the NHS budget won't be cut could be
disappointed. We simply can't afford it.

Frank the tank

will3 wrote:

TheStone wrote:

Where does it all go? Mostly health, education, benefits and security. A lot is probably well
spent, but plenty is wasted.

NHS - 3rd largest employer "in the world"*


* possibly, I read it on the internetz, sot it must be true

I read somewhere it was the fourth largest employer in the world either way it'e big.

To the original poster he may moan about NI contributions but (I hope it never happens) if you're ever knocked off your bike and need life saving medical care, be pleased the first priority will be your well being not your medical insurance cover or lack of.

stigofthedump

It is political suicide to put up income tax, so the only way to raise the money needed to pay for the services we have all come to expect is to raise NI.
There are plenty of Americans who would rather have our system than trying to fund heathcare through insurance policies. Next time you fall off you will find out just how good our system is.
Our education system is pretty good to, but i would say that, Im a teacher.

Pross

Unfortunately everyone wants the best from public services but most also don't want to pay for it. I don't know how they expect one without the other. Even when I had private healthcare from work I didn't begrudge paying tax to fund the NHS but obviously I'd like to pay less each month

alfablue

Most of NI goes in to the NI Fund which funds benefits. A small portion of NI goes to the NHS, but the majority of NHS funding is from general taxation. Moot point, however, its all taxation. I am of the opinion that despite its flaws, our welfare state and free healthcare system generally serve us very well, and are preferable to systems based on insurance.

EKIMIKE

The NHS is already being put on a leash. Their budgets are being fixed (essentially a cut as normally budgets increase year by year) and 'efficiency' savings are being made i.e. cuts. Retiring staff are often not replaced and rural NHS services have been cut substantially already. Some management positions have been scrapped and staff on lower bands of pay are being forced to 'fill in' the void left. Essentially, staff are taking on more responsibility without being payed more. Like a promotion without the pay rise.

This has all been happening for years now.

EKIMIKE

Agree with alfablue that our system works out very nicely. It's not perfect but we get a flippin' good deal compared to most other nations.

Seanos

TheStone wrote:

National Insurance is a bit of a con. It's just tax. None of it is saved for your future.

Nobody expects it to be saved for the future, why would it be? It's an inter-generational promise and always has been since the system was set up - the NI we pay now goes to pay the pensions of previous generations, just as the following generations will pay for ours, however meagre that might be. (Mainly due to the ageing population, which in turn is in large part thanks to the NHS, and the fact that link between earnings and pensions was cut in the late 80s by the Tories)

Clever Pun

The more NI you pay the more dole money you get if something untoward happens

john-e-big-guns

You will pay it for the rest of your working life..and by all accounts you maybe won't retier untill your 70 and by then you may have 'Pop't ya Cloggs'

domhnall_dearg

Clever Pun wrote:

The more NI you pay the more dole money you get if something untoward happens

No you don't. It's £65.45 a week, if you're 25 or over and have paid NI contributions for the last 2 years. The longer you pay NI for the more you get (up to a point).
This only last for 6 months then it depends on savings etc.

Flasheart

Shheesh is that all? Never been on the dole, and that doesn't sound enough to live on even if you're really careful :shock:
How do these unemployed louts up the road from me afford those 09 reg cars then?

alfablue

Flasheart wrote:

Shheesh is that all? Never been on the dole, and that doesn't sound enough to live on even if you're really careful :shock:
How do these unemployed louts up the road from me afford those 09 reg cars then?

If you are on jobseekers allowance then you are entitled to housing benefit and council tax benefit, which whilst not making you comfortable, would make things more achievable.

If you have children then you can get child tax credit.

Can't explain the 09 cars, other than through Motability (if there is someone with a disability), use of savings, undeclared earnings etc. Of course, one may assume someone is unemployed and on benefits, but appearances can be deceiving, they may just have an unusual or irregular work pattern or some other source of income.

redddraggon

alfablue wrote:

Of course, one may assume someone is unemployed and on benefits, but appearances can be deceiving, they may just have an unusual or irregular work pattern or some other source of income.

Drug Dealers

alfablue

redddraggon wrote:

alfablue wrote:

Of course, one may assume someone is unemployed and on benefits, but appearances can be deceiving, they may just have an unusual or irregular work pattern or some other source of income.

Drug Dealers

maybe :P

schweiz

Your NI contributions are paying the pensions of today's pensioners (as well as for the NHS, Social Security benefits etc. that others have mentioned) The fact that "you don't want a pension" has got nothing to do with it. In fact by the time you get to 70 (as that is what Normal Retirement Age will probably be by then) you probably won't even get a state pension! As an ex-pat I have the option of paying my 'stamp' every week to 'ensure' I'm still entitled to a UK pension. It's only a couple of quid but it's still not worth it as most of the advice I've received is that old age pensions won't exist (or will be worthless) when I get to that age (for me, 67 I think was the age that was in the last begging letter from the Inland Revenue/Department of Work and Pensions)

<rant>
And for those who think the NHS is value for money..I pay the equivalent of 90 quid a month (even with a weak pound) for private insurance against illness and my employer pays my accident insurance, both work and non-work related. This is the system that after a mountain bike crash and resulting chronic knee pain in the weeks that followed allowed me to phone the hospital on Friday afternoon, have an appointment with the x-ray dept. followed by a knee specialist at 8.30am the following Monday morning, a MRI scan on Thursday afternoon, an appointment with a sports injury specialist the following Thursday and my first physio appointment on the Friday. And all that cost me...nothing! OK when I go to the GP for a normal appointment, I pay 40 quid a time but that's once every blue moon.

As for unemployment benefit, that would be 80% of my current salary up to a maximum of CHF10,000 (approx £6000/month).

Oh, and I pay 10% income tax and 5% for state pension/unemployment benefit!

The UK government is just bleeding it's population dry.

</rant>

Seanos

schweiz wrote:

Oh, and I pay 10% income tax and 5% for state pension/unemployment benefit!

You'll be fcuked when the Nazi gold runs out though

schweiz

Seanos wrote:

schweiz wrote:

Oh, and I pay 10% income tax and 5% for state pension/unemployment benefit!

You'll be fcuked when the Nazi gold runs out though

No, we just welcome pop stars (Tina Turner, Phil Collins, Shania Twain off the top of my head) Formula 1 drivers (Schumacher, Hamilton and more) and any one else with loads of money to live here and do a deal on income tax (I've heard figures of 1% or less). At the end of the day 1% of what thy earn makes my tax contributions pale into insignificance.

alfablue

schweiz wrote:

<rant>
And for those who think the NHS is value for money..I pay the equivalent of 90 quid a month (even with a weak pound) for private insurance against illness and my employer pays my accident insurance, both work and non-work related. This is the system that after a mountain bike crash and resulting chronic knee pain in the weeks that followed allowed me to phone the hospital on Friday afternoon, have an appointment with the x-ray dept. followed by a knee specialist at 8.30am the following Monday morning, a MRI scan on Thursday afternoon, an appointment with a sports injury specialist the following Thursday and my first physio appointment on the Friday. And all that cost me...nothing! OK when I go to the GP for a normal appointment, I pay 40 quid a time but that's once every blue moon.

As for unemployment benefit, that would be 80% of my current salary up to a maximum of CHF10,000 (approx £6000/month).

Oh, and I pay 10% income tax and 5% for state pension/unemployment benefit!

The UK government is just bleeding it's population dry.

</rant>

Hmmm, Switzerland is hardly a good benchmark against which to compare the NHS, when the Swiss have a per capita gdp of almost double that of the uk.

So what happens to people who are born with chronic diseases / with disabilities; what happens if you are long term unemployed etc, what level of healthcare do you get then? What sort of emergency care do the unemployed or chronically sick get? If it is exactly the same as you get now then that is quite amazing. On the other hand, this could just represent a rather narrow / "I'm all right jack" perspective, with no consideration of what hapens with the less fortunate. Of course, Switzerland may not have less fortunate people . . . perhaps they volunteer for...no, prob not :oops:

zanes

john-e-big-guns wrote:

You will pay it for the rest of your working life..and by all accounts you maybe won't retier untill your 70 and by then you may have 'Pop't ya Cloggs'

When we (us in our early twenties) are of that age the pension age will be far, far higher than that. Just to add to the OPs happiness